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UnNatural Perfection (and the end of rock)
Old 15th November 2009
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieTheRed View Post
But is it fair to expect a complete musical revolution from every generation?
No, it's not fair! I have no expectations heh .

Quote:
I think it's safe to say there's 'quite a difference' between music of the mid-late 80's-00's to the 60's-70's. Maybe not as big a difference, but that's just a case of diminishing returns, it's to be expected . . .

Besides, there are plenty of hugely popular forms of music that just didn't exist 30 years ago.

Rap/Hip hop. Dance/DNB/electronica. Extreme metal.

There's been plenty of music made in the past 25 years that will stand the test of time. We're just too close to it to get a clear view.
I'm not saying nothing changed since the 60s/70s...I was mainly talking about now...the 00s...Katy Perry could have been from the 80s for example...there is really nothing different in the art...the song, the overall sound and feel, the attitude...rap/dance/metal...it's all pretty old and just doesn't seem to be going anywhere...

there just don't seem to be any great visionaries at the moment...people who are brilliantly talented, creative, and musical and can make the "crap' music of the day seem worthwhile to the snobs and doubters...
Old 15th November 2009
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
No, it's not fair! I have no expectations heh .

I'm not saying nothing changed since the 60s/70s...I was mainly talking about now...the 00s...Katy Perry could have been from the 80s for example...there is really nothing different in the art...the song, the overall sound and feel, the attitude...rap/dance/metal...it's all pretty old and just doesn't seem to be going anywhere...

there just don't seem to be any great visionaries at the moment...people who are brilliantly talented, creative, and musical and can make the "crap' music of the day seem worthwhile to the snobs and doubters...
In many ways I agree with you.I'm not as familiar as I could be with the electronic side of things, so it might be different for those guys, but I hear very little new music that's groundbreaking compositionally or stylistically.

But there are still plenty of absolutely stunning songs being written, by everyone from Butch Walker (Bethamphetamine) to the Gaslight Anthem (Here's Looking At You, Kid) to Shinedown (45) to Slaves To Gravity (My Poor Hand) to Nightwish (Dark Chest of Wonders) to Eminem (Like Toy Soldiers) to Nikki Sixx (Life Is Beautiful) to Avenged Sevenfold (Won't See You Tonight) to Mike Scott/The Waterboys (The Pan Within) to Thrice (Doublespeak) to Muse (Hysteria) to Coldplay (Talk) to Rancid (Fall Back Down) to My Chemical Romance (Guys Like Us In Prison) to Fallout Boy (Dance, Dance) to Nick Cave (anything off Murder Ballads) to The Wildhearts (Vanilla Radio) to Evanescence (Bring Me To Life) to Alphabeat (Fascination) to Flo Rida (tell me Low doesn't raise a smile?) to Maximo Park (Books From Boxes) to the Libertines (Can't Stand Me Now) to Shakira (anything off Laundry Service - try Objection) to Lily Allen (Not Fair) to Sara Bareilles (Love Song) to . . .

Well, I think I ought to have a sit down.

It's worth pointing out that I'm not a fan of all those artists.

But I've made the point, there is still GREAT music being written. The good to bad ratio probably hasn't changed all that much - there's just so much of the ****ing stuff out there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
there just don't seem to be any great visionaries at the moment...people who are brilliantly talented, creative, and musical and can make the "crap' music of the day seem worthwhile to the snobs and doubters...
I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest. But I know there are millions of Radiohead/Muse/Nick Cave/Timberland/whoever fans out there who'd disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wildhearts
Where's My Elvis?
Old 15th November 2009
  #93
And there's stuff being done that you won't hear of unless you go looking, because it's not in English. Something like this.

YouTube - Adultchild - It's Rain [song]

It starts off super-gently and just builds and builds and builds to this huge climax. I think it's great and it's as far from plastic, gridded, and squashed instant gratification as you could get. I think it's as beautiful and well done as, say, Rain Song.
Old 15th November 2009
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
I think it's great
Me too!
Old 15th November 2009
  #95
Also check out Nastyona

YouTube - Nastyona - 바늘 [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - Judith [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - 돌이킬 수 없는 [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - Empty [live]

A young band who has good songs and can bring it live. The guitarist is obviously nervious a bit in a few songs. But they aren't faking anything here.
Old 15th November 2009
  #96
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieTheRed View Post
But is it fair to expect a complete musical revolution from every generation?
"Why not" should be the question regarding that topic.
Quote:
I think it's safe to say there's 'quite a difference' between music of the mid-late 80's-00's to the 60's-70's. Maybe not as big a difference, but that's just a case of diminishing returns, it's to be expected . . .

Besides, there are plenty of hugely popular forms of music that just didn't exist 30 years ago.

Rap/Hip hop
existed in 70's but you had to be in the know
Quote:
. Dance/DNB/electronica.
existed in the 70's kraftwork, pink floyd,
Quote:
Extreme metal.
existed, pantera, metallica mega, wish it didn't exist.... just kiddin, though I could do without the "cookie monster" variety
Quote:

There's been plenty of music made in the past 25 years that will stand the test of time. We're just too close to it to get a clear view.
Yes but it isn't peaking through as it should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
No, it's not fair! I have no expectations heh .

I'm not saying nothing changed since the 60s/70s...I was mainly talking about now...the 00s...Katy Perry could have been from the 80s for example...
nope, too tweaked, the "style" maybe, but, the execution, no.
Quote:
there is really nothing different in the art...the song, the overall sound and feel, the attitude...rap/dance/metal...it's all pretty old and just doesn't seem to be going anywhere...

there just don't seem to be any great visionaries at the moment...people who are brilliantly talented, creative, and musical and can make the "crap' music of the day seem worthwhile to the snobs and doubters...
snobs and doubters, owch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieTheRed View Post
In many ways I agree with you.I'm not as familiar as I could be with the electronic side of things, so it might be different for those guys, but I hear very little new music that's groundbreaking compositionally or stylistically.
BINGO.
Quote:
But there are still plenty of absolutely stunning songs being written, by everyone from Butch Walker (Bethamphetamine) to the Gaslight Anthem (Here's Looking At You, Kid) to Shinedown (45) to Slaves To Gravity (My Poor Hand) to Nightwish (Dark Chest of Wonders) to Eminem (Like Toy Soldiers) to Nikki Sixx (Life Is Beautiful) to Avenged Sevenfold (Won't See You Tonight) to Mike Scott/The Waterboys (The Pan Within) to Thrice (Doublespeak) to Muse (Hysteria) to Coldplay (Talk) to Rancid (Fall Back Down) to My Chemical Romance (Guys Like Us In Prison) to Fallout Boy (Dance, Dance) to Nick Cave (anything off Murder Ballads) to The Wildhearts (Vanilla Radio) to Evanescence (Bring Me To Life) to Alphabeat (Fascination) to Flo Rida (tell me Low doesn't raise a smile?) to Maximo Park (Books From Boxes) to the Libertines (Can't Stand Me Now) to Shakira (anything off Laundry Service - try Objection) to Lily Allen (Not Fair) to Sara Bareilles (Love Song) to . . .

Well, I think I ought to have a sit down.

It's worth pointing out that I'm not a fan of all those artists.

But I've made the point, there is still GREAT music being written. The good to bad ratio probably hasn't changed all that much - there's just so much of the ****ing suff out there!
I don't think all that stuff is great.
Quote:
I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest. But I know there are millions of Radiohead/Muse/Nick Cave/Timberland/whoever fans out there who'd disagree.
Really? What are their sales like?
Is this some new Nick Cave, or, the one from the Bad Seeds?
Old 15th November 2009
  #98
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Also check out Nastyona

YouTube - Nastyona - 바늘 [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - Judith [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - 돌이킬 수 없는 [live]
YouTube - Nastyona - Empty [live]

A young band who has good songs and can bring it live. The guitarist is obviously nervious a bit in a few songs. But they aren't faking anything here.
Reminds me of CBGB's from a long time ago. Nice stuff, well done. Groundbreaking in Korea. Good examples.
I like the butterfly stuff too. There is much more ground to break in the un-tweaked department then there will ever be in the overtweaked department.
Old 15th November 2009
  #99
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So I'm wondering what the exact benchmark is..How can we know until after the fact?? Isn't that why we have the emotion of nostalgia??
There's a LOT of great music being made. Most of what I listen to that I think is the best thing since toilet paper and soap is gibberish to most people. For me my musical "tastes" (proclivities is probably the better word) are so random and weird that I tend to gravitate towards the fringes of popular music. For instance, I've read a lot of hate on this board for U2, yet they consistently sell out soccer stadiums all over the planet, yet a lot of people can't stand them. Same kinda deal with Dave Matthews. He's huge, but I don't know anybody that listens to them. Sure, a LOT of incredibly cogent and very well put together arguments can be made on both sides of the coin (Damn Solomon Burke CD) that imperfections are what makes music tick, and that precise, exacting songs with no flaws whatsoever are the staff of life, but they're both true. It's like the conflict some people feel between religion and science. A lot of people think these contradict each other. Really, they both coexist within the realm of human experience. One is a very powerful method for understanding the physical world around us, and one is for a lot of people a very powerful method for understanding the non-physical around us. I think as long as there are people, music can't die. There will always be somebody somewhere kicking ass. As long as people fight, kill, steal, cheat, love, drink, dance, etc. etc.. there is bound to be amazing music.
May not happen every generation, but circumstance has a strange way of loading the dice. Right now to me everything in the music world feels so fragmented and diffuse. I can barely get my brain around anything any more. Everybody and their little sister/brother has a music page on the interblogwebnets. It's so difficult to find good music sometimes. People tend to congregate with other people that have common musical interests. Musicians are in some ways as bad as rock climbers. Climbers never want to share the local beta for fear of their sacred ground losing it's feeling of being special and rare, and (most importantly to the locals) hidden. They worry that once the word gets out, their special secret crag will become tainted with the ethics of outsiders who will disrespect their traditions and local rules. Well they're both right. Often a crag gets a little shabby after exposure, and also, outsiders feel what a special place the locals were so tight lipped about to begin with. Music is not dead.
And as far as the "test of time" is concerned, that is a very slippery slope. if music that "stands the test of time" is a benchmark, then we'd better fess up and admit that really it's music that stands the test of copyright holders and format conversion. Let's take the OP's link: The Beatles. The people that own the copyrights might be selfish pricks and only after a buck, but the way they handle the catalog from a business standpoint (only) is genius. I'm pretty positive there are a lot of people that are very very testy about the Beatles rock band game, but what a smart way to get somebody hooked! Get em to listen to the same song over and over and over and over again. When they're all grown up and have to worry about things like mortgage payments and health insurance and having a place to live, they're going to be nostalgic as hell for the music they played on their Wii and will go out and purchase the music on whatever format is around in the future just so they can remember an easier time for a few seconds. Then they'll start posting on the internet of the future about how music is dead and nobody does anything human anymore. Meanwhile musical robots will have been assimilated with random seed generators to make it so they're bound to make mistakes to sound "more human"
One more thing about the "test of time". My dad thinks The Dorsey brothers and Benny Goodman stood the test of time. So there's that metric out the window. I don't recall seeing "Dorsey Brothers, The Game" for Wii, and I certainly haven't seen any posts from people bitching about how modern clarinet players suck and can't wail like they used to.
Good discussion so far! Why I lurk around here.
Old 15th November 2009
  #100
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
I...when something is so wrong it totally distracts from what is great (or even merely good), shouldn't it be fixed? ...
Of course it should.

Not fixing something for the sake of not fixing it is every bit as silly as fixing every bit of minutia just because you can.
Old 15th November 2009
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
As for so-called flaws, there are things right and wrong about everything. A great recording is when what's great totally distracts the listener from everything that's wrong. Where people screw up is by sacrificing what's great in an effort to achieve nothing wrong. It's classic cowardly behavior.
to me, this is the bottom line in this thread... nice job Bob!
Old 15th November 2009
  #102
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkopald
Musicians are in some ways as bad as rock climbers. Climbers never want to share the local beta for fear of their sacred ground losing it's feeling of being special and rare, and (most importantly to the locals) hidden. They worry that once the word gets out, their special secret crag will become tainted with the ethics of outsiders who will disrespect their traditions and local rules. Well they're both right. Often a crag gets a little shabby after exposure, and also, outsiders feel what a special place the locals were so tight lipped about to begin with. Music is not dead.
The next step is to be designed in response to the times and/or to lead us out of these times into the future. That doesn't mean it is going to be electronica (even though I'm working on some with a friend) or any other genre lone.

Musicians are scared to play their aces for fear of losing them, but, better compile a deck of tunes and blow them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Of course it should.
Not fixing something for the sake of not fixing it is every bit as silly as fixing every bit of minutia just because you can.
Once again, Bob nails it.
Old 15th November 2009
  #103
Gear Guru
 
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Hey Dean, leave the lederhosen alone! I just checked in with a weary head and it gave me an image of disturbing quality and a good belly laugh
Old 15th November 2009
  #104
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boody's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by russchapman View Post
Now, the question is- instead of always passing the buck, how much can music professionals (us, you, etc...) claim some responsibility, and help reverse the trend (and embrace imperfection, otherwise know as human-ity).
I see a lot of people here who are recording the band in one go and then overdub big mistakes, vocals and additional instruments. We also recorded the vocals and used 80% of it. I only edit when things sound disturbingly wrong. I don't ever use autotune but do sometimes manually pitch disturbing stuff.

To edit, autotune, beatdetective, sound replace etc is all good as an effect, but as a correction method to me it kills the vibe and the vibe is the most sacred asset of music. I'm a quite skilled editor but I cannot (and don't know anyone who can) edit a vibe into something. It's is overly easy to edit a vibe out though
Old 15th November 2009
  #105
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Somebody (I don't remember who) put this really nice yesterday at the Welcome to 1979 producer/engineer summit. It's about losing the macro view by getting hung up in the micro view.
Old 15th November 2009
  #106
Gear Nut
 

I'm just a peasant, man, but...

Long ago when I started out I had a drum machine and a 4 track. I had a never ending problem: "I can't get my drummer friends to emulate the vibe of these beats other guys play", even though the beats themselves are "easy" and straightforward.

Over the period of about a year I would routinely take a recording to half-speed (actually lower than that, cranked the pitch control lower), and try to make the drum machine line up to it. Therein I discovered truth.

It's not as simple as "being on the click". It's also not as simple as "moving the snare forward/backwards X ms". It's double not as simple as a quantize pattern, applied cavalierly to a beat.

So, for maybe about 100 songs, I tried making the drum machine match these songs a half speed, using "beat offset" per beat at double-speed (relative on the drum machine) resolution.

It was too much work, which I realized after awhile (I was young and driven to accomplish this!). BUT, I learned many invaluable things.


At (lower than) half speed, you hear things like:

Drummer X on one song makes the kick on 3 a hair late *every other measure*, while making the snare a touch early in the first measure and then late on 4 of the second measure. *Just in that one song*.

Or another Famous Drummer in just one song makes the hat on the & of 2 alternately a little late, a little early - but is then RIGHT ON during the next section, while also making the snare on one beat a little early, then making up for it by being on the fill leading to the next section. Sometimes it's more than other times.

Not to mention, the tempo itself is moving around; steady for 2 bars, then off, back on.

On and on. I *studied* this crap, hard! This is stuff that happens on a sub-20-30ms scale, and after spending hours and hours programming it into the stupid drum machine, I gained an appreciation for the value of human non-linearity.

You're never, ever going to get a "quantization grid" that will replicate the non-linearity of a real, quality drummer.

You're never going to accomplish getting the same vibe as a John Bonham, a Copeland, Phil Rudd, Omar Hakim, Ringo, who ever - without actually having a human with a PERSONALITY involved.

Nobody is going to be willing to play around *on every single drum beat* single ms on not just one song, but multiple songs, trying to make "authentic vibe" happen. Everyone fakes it now with tricks, but that's all it is - trickery.

There's no formula to it; it's sub-20 ms hysteresis that can be randomized, but my point is that *it's not that simple*.

I don't expect anyone to grok what I'm talking about unless they've attempted the same, agonizing process at half-speed. The problem is that time-aligning samples to an *arbitrary* grid defeats everything a drummer/musician *should* have been trying to accomplish their entire lives - which is to sound like a frakking human. It gets you by if you're not sure about what you really like in music, but it's not the same as that last 10% of historical, real quality, buried in the sub-20 ms world of imperfection.
Old 15th November 2009
  #107
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Dang good post!
I've done that too.
PLUS, it's just a whole lotta fun working with those guys and a LOT of others, versus, programming a frikkin machine, and a drummer worth his salt can be DONE in no time.
Old 15th November 2009
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkamacher View Post

You're never, ever going to get a "quantization grid" that will replicate the non-linearity of a real, quality drummer.

You're never going to accomplish getting the same vibe as a John Bonham, a Copeland, Phil Rudd, Omar Hakim, Ringo, who ever - without actually having a human with a PERSONALITY involved.
.
It's like trying to get digital to sound analog...an exercise in futility...

But I don't think people are really going for human, though...in rap, I think many will play the drum machine with their fingers to get a beat that feels good, but the sounds are still unnatural...

Unnaturally perfect or otherwise, rock has been dead for years ...
Old 15th November 2009
  #109
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I'm not sure a few people who post here and make plenty o dough with it would agree.
Old 15th November 2009
  #110
And it's also not like click tracks haven't been used in one form or another for a LONG time. Does Babba O'Reily sound gridded to anyone? It clearly has a click track in the form of a synth filter sweep that runs through the whole song.
Old 15th November 2009
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I'm not sure a few people who post here and make plenty o dough with it would agree.
hey hey, my, my...the music business will never die...
Old 15th November 2009
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
hey hey, my, my...the music business will never die...
need sammiches....
Old 15th November 2009
  #113
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
It's like trying to get digital to sound analog...an exercise in futility...

But I don't think people are really going for human, though...in rap, I think many will play the drum machine with their fingers to get a beat that feels good, but the sounds are still unnatural...

Unnaturally perfect or otherwise, rock has been dead for years ...
?? Rock still sells in bucket loads!! From Yeah Yeah Yeahs to Foo Fighters to nice news tusff from Them Crooked Vultures.... the biggest tours are still rock shows!!
Old 16th November 2009
  #114
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There's plenty of music being made today that could be considered revolutionary, although it won't see primetime airplay because we don't live in a time where it's appreciated and acknlowedged. Pirate radio stations play brillant music all day long, new and classic abscure masterpieces.

With today's present aesthetic, you either inch ahead and expand on whatever sells or is trendy in todays market by putting your own twist on popular culture's taste, or you be yourself and create music that touches your own soul, fullfills your own creative and emotional desires, and makes medicine for your own sanity,Regardless of any other variables. Whether or not the rest of the world even finds it, and even if they did, consider it timeless and valuable fruit for the soul is really about the times we live in.

My point is , we don't live in an era where "Strawberry fields" style of songwritting is radio music. Writing beautiful music about things that aren't considred postive and mindlessly happy, or auto pilot head bobbin isn't going to sell records. So artist don't write about things that aren;t going to sell, especially when the idea is alreay before a note is played is that the attitude is "But will this sell?".

Bands like the beatles could write sophisticated pop music for their culture/time, and popular culture dug it. We don't live in a time where the same thing is appreciated. Used to be, a song of tragic misfortune could be a #1 hit beacause it was a beatiful song. That's exstinct now.
Old 16th November 2009
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
?? Rock still sells in bucket loads!! From Yeah Yeah Yeahs to Foo Fighters to nice news tusff from Them Crooked Vultures.... the biggest tours are still rock shows!!
Yeah, I said the business will never die...the art form, or whatever you want to call it...dead as a door nail...
Old 16th November 2009
  #116
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
There's plenty of music being made today that could be considered revolutionary, although it won't see primetime airplay because we don't live in a time where it's appreciated and acknlowedged. Pirate radio stations play brillant music all day long, new and classic abscure masterpieces.

With today's present aesthetic, you either inch ahead and expand on whatever sells or is trendy in todays market by putting your own twist on popular culture's taste, or you be yourself and create music that touches your own soul, fullfills your own creative and emotional desires, and makes medicine for your own sanity,Regardless of any other variables. Whether or not the rest of the world even finds it, and even if they did, consider it timeless and valuable fruit for the soul is really about the times we live in.

My point is , we don't live in an era where "Strawberry fields" style of songwritting is radio music. Writing beautiful music about things that aren't considred postive and mindlessly happy, or auto pilot head bobbin isn't going to sell records. So artist don't write about things that aren;t going to sell, especially when the idea is alreay before a note is played is that the attitude is "But will this sell?".

Bands like the beatles could write sophisticated pop music for their culture/time, and popular culture dug it. We don't live in a time where the same thing is appreciated. Used to be, a song of tragic misfortune could be a #1 hit beacause it was a beatiful song. That's exstinct now.
The good stuff isn't given a chance, it doesn't receive attention because it's lost in a sea of mediocrity much larger than the one before it.
It gets no promo, no tour support, no hype, no nuttin, not because people don't like it. It isn't given a fair chance against the tide of shite and so it can't be determined that it "wouldn't", only that it couldn't due to it's invisibility. It can't be determined that a song that works charting is extinct as a process because those songs don't get airplay, because they are more expensive to develop those bands, songs, recordings, and promote them. Literally, today's music is the product of supply side cost cutting.
Nuttin else, only because that became more important than quality, and when microsoft finishes their auto-songwriter, auto-producer, and auto-engineer programs it will be even more shitty because they won't have to pay humans to make it.
And it's going to SUCK!
Or, things will become balanced, filters for talent will come about, development will happen and the balance will be restored. Or maybe a html or link based system of filtering stuff that is fraudulently created, not just piracy, but, crap production of talentless people being able to be filtered out of a search for new music.
I think that is possible right now.
Then people can pull up a search for what they want better than today and maybe even without advertisements.

But yeah, it's not appreciated BY THE MAN, The establishment, but the people appreciate it very much.
Old 16th November 2009
  #117
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Yeah, I said the business will never die...the art form, or whatever you want to call it...dead as a door nail...
To be fair it IS being pushed into unimportance by some pretty weird people.
Old 16th November 2009
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkamacher View Post
I'm just a peasant, man, but...

I don't expect anyone to grok what I'm talking about unless they've attempted the same, agonizing process at half-speed. The problem is that time-aligning samples to an *arbitrary* grid defeats everything a drummer/musician *should* have been trying to accomplish their entire lives - which is to sound like a frakking human. It gets you by if you're not sure about what you really like in music, but it's not the same as that last 10% of historical, real quality, buried in the sub-20 ms world of imperfection.
This is a great post. Once you do a serious analysis like this of what human drummers are doing, it becomes clear why clicks are killing music. On the other "Click makes you slow down" thread, people were actually arguing in favor of using a click to record bluegrass. The click is all over modern music today. This post explains why it's killing the feel.

I think people are going to stop using clicks at some point and music from the last 10 years or so will become recognizable as music from the "click era" in the same way that people on gearslutz talk about the 80s era reverb or the negative identifying features of other musical eras.

If we let the drummers/musicians control the time and then adjust our grids to their tempo map, we're going to get recordings that are more interesting to listen to.
Old 16th November 2009
  #119
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
If we let the drummers/musicians control the time and then adjust our grids to their tempo map, we're going to get recordings that are more interesting to listen to.
So true, folks are so used to that grid sound that fluctuation in a groove seems like a mistake. Like the feeling of somethings slowing down and then speeding up is unatural! Good grief..........
Old 16th November 2009
  #120
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Somebody actually argued that "there's still enough nuance in autotuned beat detectived music to be great"
Sounded like "too many notes" too me.
That's who they are, they are the jerk that told mozart he had too many notes when there's no reason for using it.
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