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5.1 Live Setup
Old 12th November 2009
  #1
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KloseKaption's Avatar
 

5.1 Live Setup

Hello Masters!!!!

Can anyone help me on a surround setup for a live performance?
I found speakers placement in the following thread:

5.1 surround setup?

The theater setup is similar to what I had in mind. But Im still having a problem on the research when it comes to surround amplification for a bigger audience. I imagine I should just get a dolby pro logic decoder and then send each channel to a specific amplifier... preferably the same model. And if I am to make the surround properly, the Ls and Rs would need something like 6 channels of amplification each.

I am currently working on a project that mixes electronic music with live orchestra. To bring our performance to the next level, we agreed to show the sponsors a 5.1 equipment budget list and see if they allow us to do that test.

I recognize Im a bit misinformed, If anyone could give any help concerning what specific models I should use or any corrections on what I said, it will be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time
Old 12th November 2009
  #2
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KloseKaption's Avatar
 

This is what I mentioned on the link
Attached Thumbnails
5.1 Live Setup-theatersound.jpg  
Old 12th November 2009
  #3
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AlexK's Avatar
 

For live performance? You want a PA system.

Is this a one-off performance? It'll probably be miles cheaper to rent kit than to buy it.

How big is the audience going to be? It's no good going for 8050s if you need to fill a large room over the top of an orchestra - the 8050As really don't go very loud...
Old 13th November 2009
  #4
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Precisely, thanks for your reply,
We are looking to rent all the gear for a one off. My biggest concern for the moment is sorting out the necessary gear to feed the PA.

Since not many people do it, I guess it wont be easy... Any suggestions besides the 8050s??? something lke JBL Vertec array, could it be used in surround???? how about which amps ???
Old 13th November 2009
  #5
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The vertec is a line array, and hence has only limited possibilities as far as where it could be used. A point-source system would be more ideal unless you're needing to cover vast crowds of people stretching great distance from the speakers.

The standard in terms of out-and-out sound quality tends to be d&b audiotechnik speakers/amps. You still don't say how many people are going to be in the audience. It's quite easy to fill a room with an audience of 500 with a fairly basic 5.1 setup, but if it's 1000, you need to step things up...
Old 13th November 2009
  #6
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Thank you AlexK,

The expected audience is a number around 200 people.
It's not a dancing party, everyone sitting down. but we still want power, just enough though, confortable listening environment and everyone feels the sub, hears everything clear.

Do you have any advices on the dolby decoder pro logic I should use?? Never seen that question around concerning live performance, I imagine there's a model for professional purposes, with a clearer playback than a traditional 5.1 reciever, do you know of any ? Pardon my ignorance but I've never done this,
Thanks again for the cooperation.
Old 13th November 2009
  #7
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To be honest with you, I've never seen Dolby Pro Logic playback done live - all the 5.1 decoding I've seen done has been DTS from inside a computer played back through something like a MOTU 828.

Are you definitely sure you want to do Dolby Pro Logic? Surely it would make more sense and be easier to bounce-down your project into individual AIFFs or WAVs, and use a piece of software such as Logic or Cubase to play back through a good quality interface and into a mixer driving 5 speakers and subwoofers?

If the expected audience is no more than 200, then 5x d&b E12s on top of an E15 sub each would more than do the job. You could get away with fewer subs if your budget requires it, although I still don't know exactly what the material going to be played is, so as few as two subs may do the trick.

This is the system I'd look for - and it's really quite easy to get hold of in this part of the world. Anything 'equal' should be enough for you (12" tops - DON'T go for 15" tops, there's good reasoning behind this) and 15 or 18 inch subs.
Old 13th November 2009
  #8
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KloseKaption's Avatar
 

Nice one, we will be using the prism orpheus through Logic. We were avoiding taking it out of the studio but it will be wise to insure it anyway.

I was just now informed that there are going to be 10 performances, 9 in theaters, and 1 outdoor. Some of theses gigs we may get around 1000 people. So we are still going to rent the gear. You recogn with just 5 speakers 200 people can get the surround feel proper?
you recommend subs for the surround channels, I've never seen this, but makes sense in a live performance. For the bigger gigs I guess I will need a mixer to drive something like 16 speakers and subs? I was hoping for less, but this needs to be done perfectly.

Audio content wise, we use a lot of subs in our music. So it might be worth having subs all over, maybe with less power.
well, I guess its down to calculations.
cheers
Old 13th November 2009
  #9
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5 12" speakers would be enough for 200 people, but for 1000, you're going to need considerably more.

Personally I'd say you're really going to need to talk to a rental company and see if they can provide personnel for this - setting up/transporting a good PA rig (especially one for as many as 1000 people) is something which requires experience and knowledge.

There's only so much advice can be sought online before the person you're getting recommendations from (me) begins to guess...
Old 13th November 2009
  #11
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You don't have anything to decode - a surround decoder will be of no help. You probably want a surround capable mixer, even a Yamaha 02R, to assign and pan each input in the 5-channel surround field (you don't pan anything to the LFE channel, of course (it's not directional), but you can use it for low frequency sources).

A theatrical-type system might be the right thing - three full-range LCR and a diffuse array of surround speakers, all crossed-over to the subwoofers. You might also consider a 4.0 system - C, L, R, and S.

At that point, proper live sound speakers, designed to deliver each channel at the target SPL and directivity pattern for each venue, would be the right choice. Line arrays/whatever is best.
Old 13th November 2009
  #12
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AlexK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seriousfun View Post
At that point, proper live sound speakers, designed to deliver each channel at the target SPL and directivity pattern for each venue, would be the right choice. Line arrays/whatever is best.
I really can't see a line array being of any help to the OP. Point source is the only feasable option unless the OP wants to be travelling with a rigging crew and 2+t of speakers...

As I say, I really think the OP should be talking to a rental company/live sound engineer person-to-person, as opposed to potentially being very misguided on a studio-based web-forum...
Old 13th November 2009
  #13
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I should ask someone who sets up cinemas. they run 5.1 systems for similar number of paople.
Old 13th November 2009
  #14
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No no no! Cinemas are installation systems with very different specifications for a system than any sort of live performance. What the OP wants to do (playback of music live in different venues using a scalable system) has VERY little in common with a cinema (movies in a treated/specially designed environment using a system designed specifically for a venue).
Old 13th November 2009
  #15
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first you need to find a rigger ! so you know if you can even hang a 5.1 system! then you need to figure out is it worth it ? 200 people I'll guess 25 get a could surround image!
Most live mixes are basically mon because it gives most of the audience a good sounding seat!
Depending on the program I might consider LCR plus a Rear effects Speaker system with a an aux feeding subs but not a true surround its just asking for an audience compaints!
Old 18th November 2009
  #16
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KloseKaption's Avatar
 

Thanks again,

I've been going deeper in research, we are going for the full surround for 200 people, on the bigger gig, we'll probably improvise with something similar to what was said, 4.0 or a LCR w rear FX speakers (Good Idea, fo this bigger projetc it wont be worth trying such a hard setup for 5.1).

Weel , I would like to thank you all again for your cooperation, I havent heard of anyone doing this in Brazil yet, so yes, Im still going to do it. Wont be easy, I got some good basic info here but nothing definite, not that I was expecting anything definite here but I thought with a post here someone would turn up with a bit more specific info concerning live surround setup, like a good link.... but well... I guess its back to the books.

Peace
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