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classic albums made with drugs Modulation Plugins
Old 22nd April 2011
  #211
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reality check

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog View Post
[IMG]...

Yup, without sober people to fix everything, these guys would have sucked!
Well, their *recordings* certainly would have sucked. Nobody doubts that the performers were a rare talent, but one might ask if that was because of, or *in spite* of their drug use.

But instrument proficiency has little to do with how good a "classic album" actually sounds. If you had posted a series of pics of engineers/producers that are famous for working while high, that may have been more to the point. The fact that on a recording forum we're justifying our drug choices by comparing ourselves to rock stars is a little sad. Perhaps you should have pursued music performance as a profession?

Lastly, how many of the artists in that photo montage have lost their lives directly or indirectly due to to drug use? And those still alive have essentially eroded their talent to the point of killing it off by not knowing when to say when. (think Keith Richards, Van Halen, etc...)

Old 22nd April 2011
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiogeek View Post
And those still alive have essentially eroded their talent to the point of killing it off by not knowing when to say when. (think Keith Richards, Van Halen, etc...)
True but mostly relating to creativity I think. They can still play and perform but I don't think that you can stay creative while doing drugs over a long period of time.

I just recently discovered Elliot Smith, what an AMAZING talent. It pisses me off very badly that drugs were his undoing. Of course you can raise the usual 'chicken and egg' question, were the drugs there to mask mental issues, etc

Frankly, I don't think so. Drugs incl. alcohol have a way of ****ing up one's life and personally I only saw negative 'careers', no matter if somebody was/is an artist or not.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
True but mostly relating to creativity I think. They can still play and perform but I don't think that you can stay creative while doing drugs over a long period of time.

I just recently discovered Elliot Smith, what an AMAZING talent. It pisses me off very badly that drugs were his undoing. Of course you can raise the usual 'chicken and egg' question, were the drugs there to mask mental issues, etc

Frankly, I don't think so. Drugs incl. alcohol have a way of ****ing up one's life and personally I only saw negative 'careers', no matter if somebody was/is an artist or not.
Elliot Smith was amaaaaaaaaaazing. XO is one of the best records of all time, both sonically and compositionally!
Old 22nd April 2011
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxHo View Post
Such a consumer point of view. Clearly you have not done the kind of meditation discussed in this context. I've done both and I prefer vipassana. You can't buy enlightenment at $5 a hit. You can't try on alternative consciousness like a new pair of blue jeans. I wish you all the best on your journey. And want to be clear that is just my opinion -- a different one, opposed to yours.
you cant buy enlightenment PERIOD. it comes from within. however you chose to get there is fine...just dont tell people meditation is like taking LSD.....total BS


the only good sober albums from that time period were Zappa albums. just my highly evolved and educated opinion!
Old 22nd April 2011
  #215
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I think...
Insecurity, ego and depth is risky combination.
Some of the best art, music or otherwise comes from a place of an individual wanting / Needing, to save themselves or sort something out from within. Ie; Leonard Cohen, John Lennon, Elliot Smith etc.

Chemicals generally and exponentially thwart that process. Ie; I feel fine now... no need to worry about such minutia.

Still, it all has to be considered on an individual basis.
There are cases where the work is ultimately more interesting or captivating the result of dark paths taken by the artist.
( for one reason or another )

It does seem however that if the path of indulgence, or even self medicating, is taken for extended periods and over much time the road back to lucid thought and emotional interaction can be very long, in some cases too long to be fully realized.

A searching character of depth with a relatively weak will & significant insecurities implies a dangerous outcome.
Strength and will has to be developed. Love helps this along... a lot.

Then there's talented, smart and seemingly "lucid together" artists like Randy Newman. But what the heck do I know, he's probably wrestling with one thing or the other like most.
Otherwise, his work might not be so freaking great.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillytheMTN View Post
you cant buy enlightenment PERIOD. it comes from within. however you chose to get there is fine...just dont tell people meditation is like taking LSD.....total BS


!
That's what I said. Haha! What a vehement agreement.... you sure you're sober?
Old 22nd April 2011
  #217
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Cheech and Chong-Big Bambu
Old 22nd April 2011
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxHo View Post
That's what I said. Haha! What a vehement agreement.... you sure you're sober?
youre clearly a waste of space...stay on topic or ****.

Anything by Coltrain
Old 22nd April 2011
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillytheMTN View Post
youre clearly a waste of space...stay on topic or ****.

Anything by Coltrain
Haha! Really? Just responding to what you wrote. Maybe paxil, then? heh
Old 22nd April 2011
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
I believe on Aoxomoxoa, Bob Weir repeatedly told the engineer he wanted to achieve the sound of "wet air." heh
I believe that engineer (at least the producer) was Owsley......I bet he knew exactly what Weir meant stike
Old 23rd April 2011
  #221
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To each his own, but I've been told that many of the studio drug stories especially about Hendrix were largely for PR and imagine.


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Old 23rd April 2011
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
To each his own, but I've been told that many of the studio drug stories especially about Hendrix were largely for PR and imagine.


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But I was told they were true
Old 23rd April 2011
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillytheMTN View Post
I believe that engineer (at least the producer) was Owsley......I bet he knew exactly what Weir meant stike
No. First of all, Weir asked for the sound of "heavy air", which caused Dave Hassinger (the producer) to run out of the studio screaming.
Old 23rd April 2011
  #224
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Steely Dan.......... snort.................
Old 23rd April 2011
  #225
This is a long thread, and maybe someone already mentioned it, but one good source for this info would be the "Classic Albums on Drugs" DVD series. I have most of them.
Old 23rd April 2011
  #226
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What does this have to do with gear?
Old 23rd April 2011
  #227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihearyouson View Post
What does this have to do with gear?
It's a thread on a gear website!
Old 23rd April 2011
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyChris View Post


mm...hmmm . All talentless hacks who would never have amounted to anything without drugs.
Wow....I almost fell out of my chair when I read the beatles were" talentless"...hahaha.no one in the beatles were formally trained or could read music and still they wrote stuff that was like mindboggling....if they were talentless then sadly we all are too


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Old 23rd April 2011
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxHo View Post
Such a consumer point of view. Clearly you have not done the kind of meditation discussed in this context. I've done both and I prefer vipassana. You can't buy enlightenment at $5 a hit. You can't try on alternative consciousness like a new pair of blue jeans...

Funny. I don't recall the Buddha being either condescending nor elitist.
Old 23rd April 2011
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillytheMTN View Post
But I was told they were true
But probably not told to you by someone who was actually there.


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Old 23rd April 2011
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gilland View Post
Funny. I don't recall the Buddha being either condescending nor elitist.
The Buddha -- Siddhatha, I'm assuming, since there was more than one -- was a wealthy prince who renounced his crown. Awakened ones are a spiritual vanguard, in the belief system. But I am curious: I simply disagreed, and supplied the basis for my disagreement. So, what, specifically, is elitist or condescending about what I wrote?

What a funny thread!
Old 23rd April 2011
  #232
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I find the some of the attitudes to be dumbfounding in this thread.

The same drug can affect a number of people in completely different ways. The same way people all have different emotional responses to songs they hear. The mind is too subjective to say whether or not drugs are good or bad for music.

I myself work better creatively in the confines of my house while high, however I would never do it while at work (theatre technician).
Smoking weed doesn't exactly change the way I play a bass guitar but it opens up other feels. I find I swing better when I'm stoned.
Alcohol on other hand slows me down. Acid does nothing except make me feel adjusted. Cocain is a waste of time. Mdma on the other hand!
I work quicker when stoned. So there goes the argument of being slow and stoned.

For a forum that is dedicated to the creation of music I would have thought most people would understand that the emotional response is different from person to person. The mind is a wonderful thing that we don't fully understand.
I guess I'm trying to say you can't really understand the musician and what drugs they may or may not have been on. If the player can play then it doesn't matter what they may be on.
Old 23rd April 2011
  #233
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I wish to delete this post but on iPhone and can't. Ehhhh
Old 23rd April 2011
  #234
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DMT is a good one, very inspiring, but surprisingly isn't very well known....
Old 23rd April 2011
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdobson2 View Post
Wow....I almost fell out of my chair when I read the beatles were" talentless"...hahaha.no one in the beatles were formally trained or could read music and still they wrote stuff that was like mindboggling....if they were talentless then sadly we all are too


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It was sarcasm.
Old 23rd April 2011
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
get your self on heroin and see if you make a classic
i love this
Old 23rd April 2011
  #237
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in my experience, i would agree with those who stress individuality in terms
of people. everyone reacts differently to different substances and life circumstances.

as a rule, and one that I am not always happy with myself...........I have found that the most
amazing music I know of has been made by people who have experimented with every drug
known to man, yet have then become 100%
clean and sober and make music from that sobriety - that sobriety could very
well be informed by the many altered states these people have known and
incorporated.

contradicting myself, there are no rules.


be well


- Jack
Old 24th April 2011
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathanael PCB View Post
I find I swing better when I'm stoned.
Hopefully your audience - if any - thinks so too.
Old 25th April 2011
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxHo View Post
The Buddha -- Siddhatha, I'm assuming, since there was more than one -- was a wealthy prince who renounced his crown. Awakened ones are a spiritual vanguard, in the belief system. But I am curious: I simply disagreed, and supplied the basis for my disagreement. So, what, specifically, is elitist or condescending about what I wrote?

What a funny thread!
read your statements. clearly condescending but why would I want to get into it with a jerk like you anyway? to each his own. do your own thing. this thread is about the records made on drugs not your own personal journey, which myself and everyone here could care less about.

"Such a consumer point of view. Clearly you have not done the kind of meditation discussed in this context. I've done both and I prefer vipassana. You can't buy enlightenment at $5 a hit. You can't try on alternative consciousness like a new pair of blue jeans. I wish you all the best on your journey. And want to be clear that is just my opinion -- a different one, opposed to yours."-LunchboxHo
Old 25th April 2011
  #240
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Ah this is a pet interest of mine, drugs and music. Also please simply skip this post if you do not feel man is a spiritual being.

It really hit home when I read of Kenny Kirkland, my favorite modern pianist died of an overdose. Here was a guy with a brilliant career, successful, going from creative strength to strength surrounded with some of the most exciting musicians on the planet... And he was a very, very clever guy, yet to do drugs these days is stupid when many of his heroes died from it.
So what was missing that drugs replaced? What was needed that drugs supplied? Why does it seem so easy for us to lose our way in the pursuit of music especially?

The other aspect discussed is what the drugs actually do. Of course they open doors, of course they provide and facilitate experiences of the 'other', the spiritual, the creative - the big mystery no one can really define.

But there's a but. What are you really doing when you bind yourself to a substance/s that works by completely subverting the 'I', and making you a passenger of your own destiny or life experience? Though the freedom you experience is true in itself, the fruits of it cannot be brought into your daily life at all because the 'I', the will, was supplanted in order for the effect of the substance to be created. (PS, Not the 'I' described in asian philosophy as ego needing to be destroyed, but the 'I' as higher self, God-head etc) Debatable, sure, but it is the line of thinking that makes most sense to me.

Now when the light of day dawns, and it always does, the 'will' is nowhere and dormant. The only way out of addiction is to bow down at the alter of the substance and say 'you are master to me', and the only way you can survive is by choosing never to go into that 'church' again. Walk in, and you die, as many have. You have to acknowledge the drug is more powerful then you, finished. Crazy to take drugs, just does not add up.

The effect of drugs is also illusionary, because it binds the spiritual in man all the more to the physical (the substance itself), and brings you to less and less freedom. Until the freedom to live your life becomes the fruits of death's labour. Of course this is not to say fantastic music can not come from this enslaved state to dope, of course it can.
But music in the service of the emancipation of us as human beings? Nope, sorry, fail.

I would agree that naturally we are not so free and drugs offer that sense of completeness, the whole and of this wondrous universe of continuous creation. But through hard work on spiritual exercise like meditation and real quiet observation etc, there are seemingly small, but real steps made. Practicing music in all its guises is in itself a meditation. The gloss and shine is gone, it becomes a plodders game, but the men and woman who stick it through are people of real empathy and regard. The Dalai Lama, Ghandi and so on. All the great jazz musicains got great before they got drugs, as far as I have read! One classic album is Pat Metheny trio Question and Answer, an absolute genius record done in two days with Dave Holland (drug free) and Roy Haynes (previous drug user).

Drugs are indeed a doorway, but with consequences. Why not go further and say power corrupts (recreational) and absolute power corrupts completely (addiction).
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