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classic albums made with drugs Modulation Plugins
Old 13th November 2009
  #151
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Knox's Avatar
 

. . . . as a past drug addict (I have 18 years clean) . . and one who has been recording for well over 30 years, and one who has experienced both sides and seen a lot . . the whole rock and roll / music scene 'cliche' of drugs and drink is ridiculous to me. I fell for it too. Being a cliche is about the dumbest crap in the world. And the music business is full of cliche people more then any other area I have seen. That said, I have done good work both ways . . . BUT my life is a zillion times better without drugs / drink and isn't that the point? There are other things in life then the music business / recording. For any of us who grew up in the 60s . . . . drugs / politics effected music greatly . . . BUT it was a different time. Drugs were a bit more innocent in most circles. Smoking pot / dropping LSD and making music back then is a lot different then smoking crack / meth / heroin etc today. btw . . the heroin use by Hendrix is greatly exaggerated in many circles. AND the fact that he could play / write the **** he did tripping on LSD is mind boggling. I'm sure drugs influenced some of his creativity, but so did the times. I don't regret a lot of my past as it absolutely did open the "Doors of Perception" and yes even creativity at times . . . but I'm talking pot and hallucinogenic drugs during a time when things were totally different. When I got in to cocaine and heroin, even alcoholism . . nothing good came out of it. btw . . I have seen more asshole behavior from the rock and roll cliche of alcohol then I ever did from pot and hallucinogenic drugs. If you want to bring crack / heroin users in your studio to make music . . . lock up your mics. I would say the times / politics effect much over the drugs / drink in many ways. Back in the 80s major labels were damn near figuring in some record budgets the cocaine use for some of the major acts (under the table) . . . though of course they would never admit any of that. That's a lot different then Pink Floyd dropping acid or smoking pot in the studio. It (drugs) took a heavy turn in the 80s throughout today IMV.
Old 13th November 2009
  #152
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ry-Fi View Post
Syd Barrett's legendary drug-use is very evident on Piper at the Gates of Dawn, one of my faves.
I was reading a book recently about when the Floyd were about to be signed up and wanted a £5k advance and EMI were balking at that The A&R guy said "We have overheads - they have out-of-their-heads".

Lol

Mike
Old 13th November 2009
  #153
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travisbrown's Avatar
So are we assuming that "classic albums made with drugs" means everyone involved was high throughout the process?

This is something that I find hard to believe. Usually the anecdotal stories of drug use during production are superficial (and hyperbolized), and usually belie the probability that the supporting crew like session players, engineers, producers, A&R reps, exec. producers, other bandmates, etc. carried the project through despite any individual's excesses.

Then you'd have to quantify the elements that made that classic album and how much of it's "classicness" can be attributed to performances mitigated/enhanced by inebriation. What about the writing process? And who knows how much and even if the artists were inebriated during the actual performances? When you actually get down to it, turns out the people who were there often attest that the artists were actually reasonably sober when they showed up for work. By Buckingham's own admission, there was a lot of coke during the Rumours sessions, but was that a gumfreeze or line or two as a pick-me-up to get through long sessions, or full out partymode where people get really wasted?

What I think is easier to talk about is the stylistic or technical proficiency of an artist during periods of drug use. Take Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example. I think that the albums and performances he did while an alcoholic and coke addict are much better albums than after he quit altogether. I think he just lost his edge. But what probably made those early albums so great was not that alcohol or coke enhanced his playing, but those drugs probably were symptomatic of while concurrently attributing to his psychic space at the time.

I have no idea if SRV was actually inebriated during the recording sessions. I don't suspect that excessive use while performing ever made him play better. But the raw style of that era was probably a result of a creative outlet for an otherwise manic and excessive life. It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing, I think. We are the sum total of our addictions.

Alchoholism and drug abuse leads to messy lives. Messy lives can make for good blues. It's a bit conflicting that we benefit from someone's turmoil, but...

A friend once commented about Amy Winehouse, "Well, maybe we'll get one more great album out of her before she cleans up or dies."
Old 14th November 2009
  #154
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lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
. . . . as a past drug addict (I have 18 years clean) . . and one who has been recording for well over 30 years, and one who has experienced both sides and seen a lot . . the whole rock and roll / music scene 'cliche' of drugs and drunk is ridiculous to me. I fell for it too. Being a cliche is about the dumbest crap in the world. And the music business is full of cliche people more then any other area I have seen. That said, I have done good work both ways . . . BUT my life is a zillion times better without drugs / drink and isn't that the point? There are other things in life then the music business / recording. For anyone who grew up in the 60s . . . . drugs / politics effected music greatly . . . BUT it was a different time. Drugs were a bit more innocent in most circles. Smoking pot / dropping LSD and making music back then is a lot different then smoking crack / meth / heroin etc today. btw . . the heroin use by Hendrix is greatly exaggerated in many circles. AND the fact that he could play / write the **** he did tripping on LSD is mind boggling. I'm sure drugs influenced some of his creativity, but so did the times. I don't regret a lot of my past as it absolutely did open the "Doors of Perception" and yes even creativity at times . . . but I'm talking pot and hallucinogenic drugs during a time when things were totally different. When I got in to cocaine and heroin, even alcoholism . . nothing good came out of it. btw . . I have seen more asshole behavior from the rock and roll cliche of alcohol then I ever did from pot and hallucinogenic drugs. If you want to bring crack / heroin users in your studio to make music . . . lock up your mics. I would say the times / politics effect much over the drugs / drink in many ways. Back in the 80s major labels were damn near figuring in some record budgets the cocaine use for some of the major acts (under the table) . . . though of course they would never admit any of that. That's a lot different then Pink Floyd dropping acid or smoking pot in the studio. It (drugs) took a heavy turn in the 80s throughout today IMV.
You make some good points. I see your perspective as different than mine and the main reason is we are different people. I've been a moderate pot smoker for close to 10 years and it never got more than moderate. Its an enjoyable part of my life and leaving it behind is not necessary. I can and do leave it for long periods of time but come back to the fact that its an enjoyable experience for me, that doesn't have to become excessive. I could see that if you have a personality prone to overdoing certain things it could be bad and nothing but. Different people will have different takes on this i'm sure. Only you will know how you will react if you ever go down that road.

Currently I am vaping pot (not smoking because its hard on the lungs) at the very least weekly and that is fine for me. There are periods where i won't at all for months and months but in moderation, I don't think these things are any more harmful than a glass of wine here and there or some tylenol.

Russell
Old 14th November 2009
  #155
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KevWind's Avatar
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrydn View Post

It's quicker and easier for me to take my enlightenment on a blotter tab, and I have absolutely no reservations about that
Quick trip yes, actual enlightenment no , First one does not "take enlightenment" One gains enlightenment. And you will never actually gain " enlightenment" by taking LSD You may catch a fleeting glimpse of some of the possible aspects of enlightenment, but will have no basis of understanding, nor control over, how to progress . Don't over rate an LSD trip, nor delude yourself , it it just a trip so named for both meanings.

]
Quote:
Also, I don't currently have the want or the need to go out of my body.
And that is just fine, and with LSD that's also a good thing because strapped to that missile, one is never sure if one will indeed reattach the mind with the body. However "out of body" is what "enlightenment" is actually about..
Quote:
I'm happy with just a nice "trippy" dose. Not trying to bust in on God or anything.
Again fine , don't misunderstand I am not condemning "tripping"
Just suggesting that if your going to play in that game, understand the inherent danger. Unless you are the chemist, you have no way of knowing exactly what the dose is and depending on your biochemistry ,if the dose is Third Level category and propels you "out of body" trust me, it won't be "nice" nor " little" nor "trippy" It will be an experience that will probably be quite scary, far beyond belief, and will be excruciatingly beyond any time reference. And when and you do actually do come down ( the when of which you will have no control over) you be so drained that you will just be thankful to have returned... But hey I am just trying to pass on a little wisdom based on experience .
Old 14th November 2009
  #156
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 

i think once you start to rely on drugs to make music, thats when drugs wont do what you want them to do... Weed or drugs alone will not make classic albums. Love on the other hand... that might be another story...
Old 14th November 2009
  #157
Gear Maniac
[QUOTE=KevWind;4781057]
Quote:
But hey I am just trying to pass on a little wisdom based on experience .
I totally appreciate that . I know I won't be doing acid forever, and at some point I think I would definitely like to explore my spiritual side without the aid of chemicals. But for the time being, I'm just having some fun...playing with my mind a little. It's not something I do often...maybe a couple of times a year? Getting trips is pretty hard in WA, and I think I'll probably never come across a heroic dose on one tab. Alot of the time it's not even LSD...more like something useless like DOx or bromo dragonfly.
Old 14th November 2009
  #158
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popmann's Avatar
Six pages and all that's being discussed are the illegal drugs (and OK...alcohol and nicotine)...what occurs to me, having been in quite an interesting phase of doctor sponsored "experimentation" with mind altering substances of the modern, BigPhramCo variety is that there's no discussion of them here.
Old 15th November 2009
  #159
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
To my knowledge J.S. Bach was pretty clean during St. Matthew Passion.
Have you been around back then?

Mr.Bach was a heavy smoker... We forget that tobacoo is not only what we get in the form of commercial cigarettes, but it can be a very potent "drug" also. It is a known fact that one of the most common and strongest (considered by them) american indigenous "shaman's" ally is exactly tobacco...

Bach allegedly praised the inebriating feeling and contemplation that ensued from smoking tobacco in his poem "Edifying Thoughts of A Tobacco smoker":

"Whene'er I take my pipe and stuff it
And smoke to pass the time away
My thoughts, as I sit there and puff it,
Dwell on a picture sad and grey:
It teaches me that very like
Am I myself unto my pipe.

Like me this pipe, so fragrant burning,
Is made of naught but earthen clay;
To earth I too shall be returning,
And cannot halt my slow decay.
My well used pipe, now cracked and broken,
Of mortal life is but a token.

No stain, the pipe's hue yet doth darken;
It remains white. Thus do I know
That when to death's call I must harken
My body, too, all pale will grow.
To black beneath the sod 'twill turn,
Likewise the pipe, if oft it burn.

Or when the pipe is fairly glowing,
Behold then instantaneously,
The smoke off into thin air going,
'Til naught but ash is left to see.
Man's fame likewise away will burn
And unto dust his body turn.

How oft it happens when one's smoking,
The tamper's missing from it's shelf,
And one goes with one's finger poking
Into the bowl and burns oneself.
If in the pipe such pain doth dwell
How hot must be the pains of Hell!

Thus o'er my pipe in contemplation
Of such things - I can constantly
Indulge in fruitful meditation,
And so, puffing contentedly,
On land, at sea, at home, abroad,
I smoke my pipe and worship God."



I doubt that any "rastafarian" would describe smoking a joint much differently.

So, logically - Bach was very probably puffing heavily also while writing St.Matthew passion or at least during the breaks for "indulging in fruitful meditation"...
Old 15th November 2009
  #160
Gear Nut
 
oceanblue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
. . . . as a past drug addict (I have 18 years clean) . . and one who has been recording for well over 30 years, and one who has experienced both sides and seen a lot . . the whole rock and roll / music scene 'cliche' of drugs and drink is ridiculous to me. I fell for it too. Being a cliche is about the dumbest crap in the world. And the music business is full of cliche people more then any other area I have seen. That said, I have done good work both ways . . . BUT my life is a zillion times better without drugs / drink and isn't that the point? There are other things in life then the music business / recording. For any of us who grew up in the 60s . . . . drugs / politics effected music greatly . . . BUT it was a different time. Drugs were a bit more innocent in most circles. Smoking pot / dropping LSD and making music back then is a lot different then smoking crack / meth / heroin etc today. btw . . the heroin use by Hendrix is greatly exaggerated in many circles. AND the fact that he could play / write the **** he did tripping on LSD is mind boggling. I'm sure drugs influenced some of his creativity, but so did the times. I don't regret a lot of my past as it absolutely did open the "Doors of Perception" and yes even creativity at times . . . but I'm talking pot and hallucinogenic drugs during a time when things were totally different. When I got in to cocaine and heroin, even alcoholism . . nothing good came out of it. btw . . I have seen more asshole behavior from the rock and roll cliche of alcohol then I ever did from pot and hallucinogenic drugs. If you want to bring crack / heroin users in your studio to make music . . . lock up your mics. I would say the times / politics effect much over the drugs / drink in many ways. Back in the 80s major labels were damn near figuring in some record budgets the cocaine use for some of the major acts (under the table) . . . though of course they would never admit any of that. That's a lot different then Pink Floyd dropping acid or smoking pot in the studio. It (drugs) took a heavy turn in the 80s throughout today IMV.
right on. Having lost a mother, several friends and watching my uncle Roky's pioneering career in the mid 60's go to **** over chemicals I can relate...his (Roky's) band was known as the first psychedelic band in the world...but drugs put a stop to all of their lives or careers. I too had to learn the hard way. I have nothing against most of the stuff but as a thinking being I finally had to admit one day that....if it hurts that way, you quit doing it! A close relative used to have two planes and flew stuff out of Mexico into Texas for years, after a bit of federal intervention he cleaned up and has like 14 years sober...however I can tell you that he is not the man he used to be as he fried much of his head and his ability to function in this fast paced world is greatlt diminished. Recently I lost a good friend who tried to clean it up but spent the last 2 years of his life in an assisted living home waiting on meds and smoke breaks outside, we will soon have a ceremony for him and honor his request to spread his ashes into a local river...his family will not attend as they gave up and wrote him off....he was a very talented musician as well. Even things as seemingly benign as smoking hydro can diminish a persons productivity, especially when you do it all day long like one of the guys I fired not long ago, he stayed checked out constantly and was a waste of my money in that regard...talented but half asleep 90% of the time. Cliches are indeed the ruin of many, not to mention most folks appreciate genuine people over some checked out, unproductive, egomaniac asshole...some will say "oh not me man"...my answer to that is keep going and just see what happens. Most addicts end up locked up, sobered up, ****ed up or covered up with 6 feet of dirt...I've seen it firsthand. I did my share of falling for the cliches and have had to work very hard in order to find a place where I could exist peacefully with the world and be a contributor to the world around me as opposed to a checked out unhappy ****. Now in my 40's I have kids and how am I supposed to steer them safely to adulthood if I am not a living example of things...nobody likes a hypocrite.

A good friend who owns a local studio tells a tale of a famous frontman who's band was very popular selling millions of units a few years back. He said that during sessions they took much longer than usual because the guy insisted on shooting herion...at one point they actually had to literally carry him to a car and take him to his hotel for fear of him dying in the studio, when they got him to said hotel and threw the covers back on the bed they nearly got stuck by a syringe that was just laying on the comforter. They made it through the sessions and the band sold several million units and made a huge impact...BUT the guy was dead within a couple years, leaving behind a wife and child.

To each his own struggles I guess but I don't seem to recall ever hearing anyone say "man, drugs are the main reason my life is so successful and wonderful". There are still times when smoking a bowl and cranking up the tunes on the old tube amp stereo set up sounds like a good time, and it used to be....BUT I also know once that door is opened there is a lot of ugly stuff also waiting there...my brain wanted to kill me and still secretly still does...so I have to think it full circle and not fool myself into just seeing the fun parts. I do not consider myself a religious guy and have always taken issue personally with the whole religious thing (just not my bag), but I do believe there is some greater power out there that I cannot define. My life is now a work in progress where I daily seek to grow a bit in that realm and gain a better understanding and try to align myself with the forces of good in the world and that greater power instead of fighting against it, if I focus on good, I reap good things...if I focus on crap, I reap crap. Irony is I used to be on a path of trying to slowly kill myself and my spirit, that has now sent me down another path of trying to find my true self and trust me it is often a difficult journey but my life today is much more rich and joyous than the hell I went through back then...and I am really alive today where as I could be dead in spirit or covered up with 6 feet of topsoil. This is my truth and I felt compelled to share it. Again I do not care to hate on drinking or smoking or whatever as an institution, but only to simply share my experience, strength and hope. BTW my work and guitar playing ect. have all been much improved in the recent years...and people seem to like me better than before! Did not mean to hijack the thread, just thought it relevant to tell the "other side of the story"
Old 15th November 2009
  #161
Gear Maniac
 
Soundgeeza's Avatar
 

In the UK we used to have a brilliant Chat show host called Michael Parkinson (now retired). He once interviewed Pete Townsend and raised the question of drugs in the music industry... and Pete gave such a classic answer that I've never forgotten ... he said in his finest 'mockney' accent ..."well you've got to remember, this is the music business and everyone's either HAD a drug problem ... Got one ... or INTENDING to have one!" certainly in the classic era of British rock ... never a truer word was spoken!

Not that I'm condoning the use of drugs you understand...
Old 15th November 2009
  #162
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5down1up's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblue View Post

" ... man, drugs are the main reason my life is so successful and wonderful"
applause to jax & oceanblue
Old 15th November 2009
  #163
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gussyg2007's Avatar
anything by UFO !!! they signed a major record deal and got paid in coke !!!! Now thats ROCK 'N'ROLL !!!
Old 15th November 2009
  #164
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankdrummer View Post
aren't all classic albums made by drug / alcohol addicts ?

let's make a list. here's what i can think of (might be wrong)

Nirvana - Nevermind (cannabis / heroin)
Pink Floyd - DSOTM (cannabis)
Beatles - Sgt Pepper (cannabis / LSD)
Bob Marley & The Wailers - Catch a Fire (cannabis)
Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland (heroin)
Metallica - Master of Puppets (alcohol)
Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks (heroin)
Jeff Buckley - Grace (heroin)
Radiohead - Kid A (cannabis)
...

here's a list of classic albums
The RS 500 Greatest Albums of All Time : Rolling Stone

the real question might be : what classic album was made WITHOUT drugs

and

do we have to take drugs to make a classic record ?
The Rolling Stones - many records, but especially Satanic Majestys Request.

A side note - I'm not sure if it's accurate to say that The Sex Pistols made Never Mind The Bollocks under the influence of heroin, as it is highly doubtful that Sid Vicious actually played anything on that album at all - I believe all the bass parts were dubbed in by the guitar player. I do imagine that a large amount of alcohol was involved.
Old 16th November 2009
  #165
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The Listener's Avatar
Anyone interested in this thread's topic might be also interested in this book:

Music and altered states ... - Google Knjige
Old 5th December 2009
  #166
Gear Maniac
 
ClaudioAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waxx View Post
It surely has an influence, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
+1.... Back when I was a pothead I would produce tracks under the influence. A couple of those tracks were actually placed on MTV shows, while the others were so terrible, I rushed to take them down from my myspace page the morning after.

Moderate use might do some good if you hit a plateau. But eventually, it becomes more about the drug and less about the music. I know some people who got high before a session and then passed out before they got a chance to record anything...waste of time, money, and, yup...you guessed it...........THE HIGH .

With that said. I dont smoke anything anymore. And Im "less lazy" LOL Now I get more work done sober cuz im not busy sleeping the entire day
Old 5th December 2009
  #167
Gear Maniac
 
ClaudioAudio's Avatar
 

to the OP.... YOU FORGOT Lil Wayne-Carter 3 (codiene/cannibus)
Although, not really a classic for me. so never mind
Old 5th December 2009
  #168
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s.d.finley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl J View Post
Has anybody mentioned nitrous oxide yet?

Also, regarding Pink Floyd DSOM. I thought the Floyd was basically split into two camps.

1) Alcohol: Waters, Mason

2) The Weed: Gilmour, Wright

Pink Floyd "Saucerfull of Secrets" LSD

Pink Floyd " Live at Pompei" LSD.... there is one part of Live at Pompei where Waters is hitting a gong. He looks like he is trippin ballz!!! I have seen that look before....
Old 18th February 2010
  #169
Husker Du-Zen Arcade. They were on some major amphetamines there.
Old 18th February 2010
  #170
Gear Head
 

Sound of heroin

YouTube - Alice In Chains - Would?
Old 18th February 2010
  #171
Lives for gear
 

The simple truth is that the sober mind is our natural state, so it is superior in terms of overall operational stability and effectiveness. However, if one DID want to tweak (amplify, stimulate) that natural state with *relatively* safe (non-toxic, non-lethal, low potential for chronic addiction) drugs, one would have to conclude that hard drugs (pharmaceuticals, nicotine, heroin, cocaine, crack, meth, hard liquor, etc.) are to be avoided entirely and soft drugs (small-moderate amounts of caffeinated beverages, small amounts of cannabis, small amounts of light alcohol, small amounts of mushrooms) are to be consumed responsibly, if at all (and only by adults). There is still a slight risk of the latter causing problems though. I say, better safe (sober) than sorry. Paul McCartney & Bob Dylan ARE self-admitted, lifelong heavy cannabis users and likely the 2 most prolific songwriters in the history of mankind. Check out their stuff (err, recordings). Willie Nelson too.
Old 18th February 2010
  #172
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O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
To my knowledge J.S. Bach was pretty clean during St. Matthew Passion.
This is extremely doubtful.
Back then every beverage consumed was alcoholic as it predates sewage systems and drinking water was so seriously contaminated that it could easily kill.
Old 18th February 2010
  #173
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Electric Sugar's Avatar
Marilyn Manson - Antichrist Superstar
Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral

There was a lot of nasty **** going down during the making of these utterly f*cked up but brilliant albums.

Also loads of Nick Cave's best stuff was done when he was a heroin addict.
Old 18th February 2010
  #174
Gear Nut
 

there´s nothing like the feeling of smoking weed for the first time and listening to your favorite album...
the problem with drugs is that they turn into a bad thing pretty fast and it takes too long for us to figure it out...
i felt miserable for some time and it was only after some good years that i finally realized "hey... all this weed and alcohol might have something to do with it"
i took a lot of everything but weed really ****ed me up after long term use... im still trying to close all the doors it opened

but still... light my fire while stoned was a blast... i could´ve stopped there
Old 18th February 2010
  #175
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Bristol_Jonesey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankdrummer View Post
aren't all classic albums made by drug / alcohol addicts ?


the real question might be : what classic album was made WITHOUT drugs

and

do we have to take drugs to make a classic record ?

1 - Try anything by Frank Zappa - especially Joe's Garage
2 - Following on from 1, clearly NO
Old 18th February 2010
  #176
.T.
Gear Addict
 
.T.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristol_Jonesey View Post
1 - Try anything by Frank Zappa - especially Joe's Garage
2 - Following on from 1, clearly NO
Does his love of cigarettes count?
Old 19th February 2010
  #177
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carllock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
So, maybe turn this around then.....which classic albums were DEFINITELY made with NO drugs AT ALL involved? Anyone?
Lawrence Welk and Friends
Old 13th July 2010
  #178
Gear Head
 
somery's Avatar
 

Bit of a necrobump here, but I wanted to say that this thread would be more interesting if it skipped the pro/anti-drug sermons and just talked about albums that are generally acknowledged/admitted to have been made while under the influence.

Also, someone mentioned it earlier, but a list of albums made under the influence of non-narcotic pharmaceuticals would be interesting too. For instance, the song "Zoloft" from Ween's Quebec is, not surprisingly, about Gene's experience with the drug. Not sure if Quebec or any of their other albums were made while he was taking it (or if he still is), but it's an interesting subject.

Speaking of Ween, one can't deny the influence that cannabis and LSD (among others) has had on their catalog.

HEARSAY: Years ago someone told me that Mike Kandel of Tranquility Bass holed himself up in a mansion off the coast of British Columbia for two years, did heroic amounts of LSD, and finally came out with Let the Freak Flag Fly.
Old 13th July 2010
  #179
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Marlowe's Avatar
 

Not to mention Scotchgard!

Quote:
Originally Posted by somery View Post
Speaking of Ween, one can't deny the influence that cannabis and LSD (among others) has had on their catalog.[/I].
Old 13th July 2010
  #180
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Boschen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
So, maybe turn this around then.....which classic albums were DEFINITELY made with NO drugs AT ALL involved? Anyone?
Your insistence on absolutism is silly. Can you prove, DEFINITIVELY, that any of those musicians actually made that music? I think there's a little band in there behind my car stereo that does it all live. And you can't PROVE any of them were actually there at the sessions. I expect concrete, irrefutable proof, peer-reviewed, notarized, and in triplicate, before I will consider believing you.

I think we can say that the creative force behind these albums was sober enough:

Just another band from LA
Apostrophe

He liked his nicotine though.
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