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classic albums made with drugs Modulation Plugins
Old 28th January 2014
  #331
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filipv's Avatar
My vast exp.... research says that you should make music sober and do drugs later. The results tend to be much better that way.
Old 28th January 2014
  #332
Gear Maniac
A lot of John Coltrane stuff was done under influence of drugs (heroin&lsd) if not mentioned yet.
Old 28th January 2014
  #333
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by filipv View Post
My vast exp.... research says that you should make music sober and do drugs later. The results tend to be much better that way.
YA

ah music, the purest for of expression. who you are as a person is directly reflected in your tunes. the more you write, the more 'you' is put into your music. and of course, you can't write cool music without being a cool person. how do you become a cool person? drink a ****load of booze. this is the only way, for me. remember, NOBODY DRINKS OR SNORTS TO FEEL GOOD, they do it because it adds to who they are as a person, so that their resulting music can be that much more interesting. they abuse their bodies for the tunes, they take it for the team, for the kids. you can't play it unless you've lived it son, now go upstairs and drink up so you can be a rock n roll god in 20 years.





of course, you wouldn't play soccer wasted.
Old 28th January 2014
  #334
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Electric Sugar's Avatar
I don't think people who take drugs make better music. More like the other way round.

I think that people who make the best music are often very sensitive and that vulnerability means they require some kind of numbing or escape, so they take drugs.
Old 28th January 2014
  #335
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FFTT's Avatar
 

There are people who may just enjoy a light happy buzz when working on a tedious and sometimes very frustrating project.

These people are generally not out to get wasted or lose control or experience
altered states of reality, they keep things in reasonable perspective.

We all know people who simply cannot control themselves, but they are the exception not the rule.
Old 28th January 2014
  #336
Gear Addict
 

I think people would be a little surprised at how sober their heros are while making great music.
When you get to be there during a great production, it is interesting how the guys in charge are sober and on top of things. (There are certainly exceptions)
It's just like any other business.
Making a great record is a lot of hard work.

I don't care if people like to get high, but I cannot stand having to re-do everything the next day because they did.

I just have never heard anyone play better after getting loaded.
They always think they do, while they are loaded.

People who have a real problem have some interesting performances when they are sober.... pretty much never the other way around.
Old 28th January 2014
  #337
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookerv12 View Post
I think people would be a little surprised at how sober their heros are while making great music.
When you get to be there during a great production, it is interesting how the guys in charge are sober and on top of things. (There are certainly exceptions)
It's just like any other business.
Making a great record is a lot of hard work.

I don't care if people like to get high, but I cannot stand having to re-do everything the next day because they did.

I just have never heard anyone play better after getting loaded.
They always think they do, while they are loaded.

People who have a real problem have some interesting performances when they are sober.... pretty much never the other way around.
Strikes me as a very 'now' statement that may not apply to well looking back in time. I mean, now you can't even smoke cigarettes in the control room anymore. Also a very genre dependent statement me thinks.
Old 28th January 2014
  #338
Gear Addict
 

We will never know for sure, but I would be willing to bet that Jimmi Hendrix was not too loaded in the studio, and have read as such.

I have had a couple sessions already this year, where a couple of musicians were mildly impaired and wrecked it.
One guitar player got defensive and told me how he plays better stoned.
When we listened back the next day, he accused me of moving his timing around to make him look stupid.
This is a guy in his 50's who should know better.

I just have never experienced an impressive stoned performance.
Old 28th January 2014
  #339
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookerv12 View Post


I just have never experienced an impressive stoned performance.
I am sure you have listened to plenty of them on records you love.
Old 28th January 2014
  #340
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by

and all the dub greats, Lee Perry, King Tubby, Prince Jammy (cannabis)

.


There's a lot of misconceptions & internet 'misinformation' surrounding (originator of DUB) King Tubby. Contrary to popular belief, King Tubby was a 'non-smoker' who was apparently also very uncomfortable about smoking of any kind in his studio but was convinced by his younger assistants to tolerate it going on for commercial reasons. By many reliable accounts he was also Christian, a 'neat freak' & apt to listen to serious jazz or classical music in his spare time (!)..

His classic 70's studio was in a back bedroom at his mom's house .. !

For more on King Tubby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Tubby

And one of his most classic transformative B-side dub mixes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6_QIxt-hBg

(For comparison here is the 'normal' a-side vocal mix: http://youtu.be/Eahey6oHst0 )

King Tubby would have been 73 (!) this year had he not been murdered by a criminal in a robbery while returning home from his new studio in 1989




"Tubby's innovative studio work, which saw him elevate the role of the mixing engineer to a creative fame previously only reserved for composers and musicians, would prove to be influential across many genres of popular music. He is often cited as the inventor of the concept of the remix, and so may be seen as a direct antecedent of much dance and electronic music production." wiki
Attached Thumbnails
classic albums made with drugs-king_tubby.jpg  

Last edited by RE201; 28th January 2014 at 04:51 PM.. Reason: details
Old 28th January 2014
  #341
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FFTT's Avatar
 

If you combine alcohol with marijuana, then it's the alcohol that messes up your motor skills.

It is less O.K. to consume alcohol before a session than it would ever
be if Marijuana were used alone.

You can smoke a few bong hits and still walk a straight line, still work with great precision, but that all changes if you involve alcohol.

Its like the guy who drinks a 12 pack and has a few puffs at a party, he wrecks his car and the police blame Marijuana rather than admitting alcohol caused the accident.
Old 29th January 2014
  #342
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filipv's Avatar
booze + pot is a VERY potent combination. If one absolutely has to do both, then BOTH should be consumed in really really small quantities (like beer or two, couple of drags, and that's it! stop!). The combined effect won't be "small".
Old 29th January 2014
  #343
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filipv View Post
booze + pot is a VERY potent combination. If one absolutely has to do both, then BOTH should be consumed in really really small quantities (like beer or two, couple of drags, and that's it! stop!). The combined effect won't be "small".
agreed. my experience, pot first then the alcohol. the other way round gets messy quicker.
Old 29th January 2014
  #344
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FFTT's Avatar
 

You can usually drive home after smoking, but at night or in the rain, it can affect your vision.

If you add alcohol to that equation, then your vision is impaired and your
motor skills and reaction times are messed up too.

This can be especially dangerous in the rain where you may have trouble following the lines in the road or not see trouble ahead in time to react.
Old 30th January 2014
  #345
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filipv's Avatar
When driving (or any other heavy machinery manipulation) is involved, I subscribe to the "zero tolerance" paradigm.

Get a cab like a boss, get your car tomorrow!

Sorry for OT
Old 30th January 2014
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
You can usually drive home after smoking
If you injure someone in my family driving like that you better hope they charge you with something serious enough to keep you in jail. If I can get to you, cruel and unusual punishment will result for you being stupid enough to think you can drive around stoned without driving impaired.
Old 30th January 2014
  #347
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
If you injure someone in my family driving like that you better hope they charge you with something serious enough to keep you in jail. If I can get to you, cruel and unusual punishment will result for you being stupid enough to think you can drive around stoned without driving impaired.
Did someone ruffle your feathers? And did you know that being angry also affects your driving?

Alistair
Old 30th January 2014
  #348
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filipv View Post
Get a cab like a boss
I would mention a bicycle ride but considering the topic someone might get the wrong idea.

Alistair
Old 30th January 2014
  #349
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
If you injure someone in my family driving like that you better hope they charge you with something serious enough to keep you in jail. If I can get to you, cruel and unusual punishment will result for you being stupid enough to think you can drive around stoned without driving impaired.
44 years without a driver controllable accident.
31 years driving commercial vehicles without a driver controllable accident.
31 years working with high voltage, not one lost time injury.

More than 20 years since the last speeding ticket and that was rushing to the ER. The judge threw it out sighting my exceptional driving record.

Your comment comes from ignorance and misleading stereotypes.
Old 31st January 2014
  #350
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Sanchez's Avatar
Skilfull and experienced are not the same as responsible. Yes you have an exceptional driving record but what would the same judge have said if you'd then told him you also smoke pot and drive? Would your record still be so clean and your argument hold up so well?

A story: my grandfather lived to 95 before being hit by a car, and smoked 20 cigarettes a day for 75 years. Unfortunately my neighbour's husband recently died at 70 of lung cancer. Here in Japan approx 120,000 people/year die of smoking-related illness. Some proportion as a result of passive smoking.

I'm sure you believe you are well in control and are also apparently able to gauge your level of intoxication to be manageable. Check some of the online data and studies about cannabis and driving. For the most part and under controlled small doses there doesn't seem to be significant impairment, far less than alcohol. The problem is partly the dose (as we live in a non-regulated war-on-drugs bull*hit zone this is difficult) and also other factors such as presence of alcohol, anti-depressants etc.

I was a daily smoker as well as many other recreationals and a regular-to-heavy drinker for many years. One thing I didn't do was drive under the influence, even at that time I felt anxious being with a stoned driver.
If my son asks me about pot/driving I will certainly not counsel him that 'it's OK as long as you think you're OK'. At this point when it is unregulated and there are no standardized doses or measurements to do so would be an unacceptable risk to others and himself, physically and legally. While I very much agree that reaction based on disinformation and stereotypes doesn't help, I think there should always be room for increased awareness and information on all sides.
Old 31st January 2014
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
44 years without a driver controllable accident.
31 years driving commercial vehicles without a driver controllable accident.
31 years working with high voltage, not one lost time injury.

More than 20 years since the last speeding ticket and that was rushing to the ER. The judge threw it out sighting my exceptional driving record.

Your comment comes from ignorance and misleading stereotypes.
You have no idea from whence my comment comes. But speaking of ignorance, citing (it's 'citing,' not 'sighting,' since we're going to accuse each other of being ignorant) your own anecdotal personal experience as evidence equals the scientific equivalent of horse apples. You could find any number of drunks saying the same crap; that doesn't mean that it is safe to drive drunk.

The truth is that the actual scientific evidence is somewhat unclear. The British Medical Journal certainly concluded that driving stoned is dangerous-specifically that operating a motor vehicle within 1 hour of using marijuana resulted in double the chance of a serious accident. Other studies have challenged those findings. The trouble seems to be that THC has different effects on people the longer they've been smoking.

But the bottom line common sense conclusion is this: it's a chemical substance that alters your perception. That's the whole reason you do it in the first place. On that basis, it is, and should be, illegal to use while operating a motor vehicle. And on that basis, my original post stands. You better hope they lock you up away from me.
Old 31st January 2014
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Did someone ruffle your feathers? And did you know that being angry also affects your driving?

Alistair
1. Yes, people who recklessly endanger others make me very angry.
2. I'm not driving when I'm on Gearslutz.
Old 31st January 2014
  #353
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
1. Yes, people who recklessly endanger others make me very angry.
2. I'm not driving when I'm on Gearslutz.
I agree that people shouldn't drive stoned but your response, threatening someone physically about something that hasn't even happened, tells me you are the aggressive and angry type. That probably makes you just as if not more dangerous than a mildly stoned driver.

Seriously, it is fine to talk about the dangers of driving under the influence but your reaction is way over the top.

Alistair
Old 31st January 2014
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I agree that people shouldn't drive stoned but your response, threatening someone physically about something that hasn't even happened, tells me you are the aggressive and angry type. That probably makes you just as if not more dangerous than a mildly stoned driver.

Seriously, it is fine to talk about the dangers of driving under the influence but your reaction is way over the top.

Alistair
LOL.

You don't know anything about me, and no, a single post on Gearslutz doesn't tell you anything of substance. If it did, I might conclude that your posts reveal you to be a person who always has to be right and who incorrectly fancies himself to have astute insights that other people do not, revealing a deep insecurity.

See how that works? Anybody can play internet psychologist.

And I'd like to see your science behind the idea that "angry types" are "probably" more dangerous than stoned drivers. If we don't need science, I might simply declare that people who always have to be right to cover deep insecurities might be even more dangerous while driving than "angry types" OR stoners, as they have something to prove.

See how that works? Anybody can play internet scientist and declare anything they want, without actual science.
Old 31st January 2014
  #355
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

I should not have used such a harsh term, that was rude,
but I am equally frustrated by the misinformation and outright propaganda government authoritarians use to sell FEAR and to line their pockets with tax payer funded drug war money.

They deliberately pay for slanted research that supports their lies.

You are more likely to kill someone just glancing to see who called you or dialing on your cell phone. That is a FACT!

The propaganda does not tell you that Marijuana simply does not impair your
motor control skills.

In fact, you end up driving more carefully as long as you are not distracted.

Now if you drink and combine that with Marijuana, then you are being irresponsible, foolish and dangerous.
Old 31st January 2014
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I should not have used such a harsh term, that was rude,
but I am equally frustrated by the misinformation and outright propaganda government authoritarians use to sell FEAR and to line their pockets with tax payer funded drug war money.

They deliberately pay for slanted research that supports their lies.

You are more likely to kill someone just glancing to see who called you or dialing on your cell phone. That is a FACT!

The propaganda does not tell you that Marijuana simply does not impair your
motor control skills.

In fact, you end up driving more carefully as long as you are not distracted.

Now if you drink and combine that with Marijuana, then you are being irresponsible, foolish and dangerous.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be based on what you like to do rather than anything substantial (as in, I like to smoke, therefore smoking and driving is a-O.K., but I don't care about drinking, so drinking and driving is horrible.)

For example, it is not a "fact" that you are more likely to kill someone glancing at your phone than driving stoned. In fact, I seriously doubt anyone's even done a study comparing those two factors.

And you're making false equivalencies all over the place. Yes, there is anti-marijuana propaganda, yes it should be legal, yes, the Man is trying to keep down the weed…but that still does't mean that it's o.k. to be riding around stoned.

Bottom line, making a claim that being stoned doesn't negatively impact a person's ability to operate a motor vehicle is an extraordinary claim, as it flies in the face of common sense and is a notable exception to every other substance known to change perception and affect motor response. Therefore, in order to claim it you need a consensus of extraordinary proof. You don't have it. The best you've got is inconclusive evidence, and not a whole lot of that.

I understand that you don't think you're being reckless. The guy down in Florida bringing his gun to the movie theatre didn't think he was either. The widow of the guy he shot for texting thinks so, though. And the shooter was a retired police captain who knew a thing or two about gun safety and conflict resolution.
Old 31st January 2014
  #357
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ns
Old 31st January 2014
  #358
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be based on what you like to do rather than anything substantial (as in, I like to smoke, therefore smoking and driving is a-O.K., but I don't care about drinking, so drinking and driving is horrible.)
Oh come on. Anyone that has ever consumed alcohol and cannabis knows that the effects are very different. Alcohol makes people foolhardy, irresponsible and unable to judge their own competence. Cannabis tends to make people more cautious when driving. All the science supports this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457513002315
The highest risk of the driver being severely injured was associated with driving positive for high concentrations of alcohol (?0.8 g/L), alone or in combination with other psychoactive substances. For alcohol, risk increased exponentially with blood alcohol concentration (BAC). The second most risky category contained various drug–drug combinations, amphetamines and medicinal opioids. Medium increased risk was associated with medium sized BACs (at or above 0.5 g/L, below 0.8 g/L) and benzoylecgonine. The least risky drug seemed to be cannabis and benzodiazepines and Z-drugs.

Specifically, drivers with concentrations of alcohol in their blood possessed an elevated risk of accident that was nearly 10 times more than that of sober drivers. Subjects who tested positive for blood/alcohol concentrations between .08 and 1.2 possessed an elevated risk that was more than 16 times that of sober drivers, while drivers with concentrations above 1.2 possessed an elevated risk that was nearly 80 times higher. By contrast, “The driver injury risk estimated with driving positive for cannabis was just above one.” Drivers who tested positive for the presence of legal medicines possessed an elevated risk that was nearly twice that of cannabis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.bmj.com/content/331/7529/1371
The prevalence of cannabis (2.9%) estimated for the driving population is similar to that for alcohol (2.7%). At least 2.5% (1.5% to 3.5%) of fatal crashes were estimated as being attributable to cannabis, compared with 28.6% for alcohol (26.8% to 30.5%).
----

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock
For example, it is not a "fact" that you are more likely to kill someone glancing at your phone than driving stoned. In fact, I seriously doubt anyone's even done a study comparing those two factors.
Many more car crashes are caused by people using their cell phones compared to people consuming cannabis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/Resources/Documents/NSC%20Estimate%20Summary.pdf
In January 2009, using data from a
2003 Harvard Center for Risk Analysis study, the National Safety Council estimated there were about 636,000 crashes attributable to cell phone use each year. NSC’s new model estimates 28% of crashes, or 1.6 million crashes in 2008, were attributable to handheld and hands-free cell phone use and texting. This model estimates that 25% of crashes are due to cell phone use and a minimum of an additional 3% of crashes are caused by text messaging.
There is much more info available on these topics with a bit of Googling... Also plenty of stuff on road rage.

Again, I don't think people should drive under the influence of cannabis but the numbers seem to indicate that many more crashes are indeed caused by people using their cell phones while driving.

I still think you over reacted to a comparison between alcohol and pot. Alcohol is clearly much more dangerous medically, psychologically, causes much more damage to society and causes many more road accidents than pot (even when adjusted for frequency).

Alistair
Old 31st January 2014
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
All the science supports this.
Here's the problem; you guys keep insisting on comparing pot and alcohol or pot and cell phones, which is a red herring. I never argued that pot was worse than alcohol, only that our resident, "Look Ma, no hands," pot driving apologist makes excuses for one and condemns the other.

My comparison was between sober driving and driving stoned, and all the science does NOT support that idea.

I'd be just as upset if you hurt someone I loved doing anything that was illegal and reckless. I really wouldn't think of it in terms of, "Well, Potman crossed the center line and hit my wife head-on, but at least he wasn't texting…we all know that causes far more accidents."

And BTW, those cell phone stats were not adjusted for frequency.
Old 31st January 2014
  #360
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
you guys
I'm writing on my own, thank you.

Quote:
keep insisting on
..responding to what you write: You over reacted and then proceeded to make statements that are clearly false according to all the science (there is plenty more if you search for it).

Bottom line: Don't drive while intoxicated, don't use your cell phone (or other mobile devices) in any way (including hands free) while driving, don't drive when too tired and don't drive angry.

Alistair
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