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classic albums made with drugs Modulation Plugins
Old 21st January 2014
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
some drugs are great for the creative process. i
This is true, but I'm finding now that if something you've created sounds great when you're straight, then the chances are its really great when you're stoned. Not always the same the other way round.
I'm coming to realise that it's equally possible to draw upon past experiences (if need be) to come up with inspiration, and that using drugs for creativity could be seen as a way of avoiding the truth (your own truth that is, when your mind is still).
Contraversial maybe, but I have my own reasons why I have to take this stance - impressionable people reading this thread should not be seduced by the apparent glamour and inspiration they might think that drugs could bring to their music...it's a very dangerous road to go down - really - and yes - of course responsible adults can choose their way...but I remember mixing with similar people when I was younger - and they can seem very 'cool' to young teenagers, who might want to follow their lead, but not have the maturity to be sensible about it, so I always like it when it's kept behind closed doors so to speak.
Sorry to be boring, but I woke up a few years ago, and feel the need to say this.

btw - I totally love psychedelia, and still make it myself...our imagination is far more powerful than any acid.
Old 21st January 2014
  #302
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great post above ^. Agree with every word of it.
Old 21st January 2014
  #303
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I'll record someone with A needle hanging out of their arm. But I think emotion makes better music not drugs!
Old 21st January 2014
  #304
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpie View Post
This is true, but I'm finding now that if something you've created sounds great when you're straight, then the chances are its really great when you're stoned. ...our imagination is far more powerful than any acid.
all true as well. i am not condoning drug use as a blanket statement. i would say that cigarettes and alcohol are far more damaging than "natural" drugs, ie, mushrooms and cannabis (sativa being my preferred over indica for the creative process). heroin, amphetamines, cocaine...i have witnessed first hand the needle and damage done. not at all pretty, the addiction.

your last statement is interesting. i agree in principle. there is, though, the possibility of some very interesting output when the chemical balance in our brain is altered a little. just read Hallucinations, by Oliver Sacks, and you'll be amazed. of course, there is no guarantee that what comes out in an altered mind-state will be thought of as good when straight (but then the same applies with something created when "straight" and is then revisited the next day).
Old 21st January 2014
  #305
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpie View Post
of course responsible adults can choose their way...but I remember mixing with similar people when I was younger - and they can seem very 'cool' to young teenagers, who might want to follow their lead, but not have the maturity to be sensible about it, so I always like it when it's kept behind closed doors so to speak.
Sorry to be boring, but I woke up a few years ago, and feel the need to say this.
this i disagree with. education is the key. not keeping things hidden from young people. i "woke-up" many years ago to the idea of drugs. i have seen a cousin and an uncle die as a result of heroin addiction. it is not glamorous and not "sexy" in the slightest' it does not make me anti-drugs. it makes me anti- stupidity.
Old 21st January 2014
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpie View Post
btw - I totally love psychedelia, and still make it myself...our imagination is far more powerful than any acid.
are you not following a trail that was broken by people using hallucinogens? would the idea of psychedelia, its form, style, etc, exist without a few brave (or stupid, depending on your bias) musicians tripping and inventing the genre, so to speak?
Old 21st January 2014
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
are you not following a trail that was broken by people using hallucinogens? would the idea of psychedelia, its form, style, etc, exist without a few brave (or stupid, depending on your bias) musicians tripping and inventing the genre, so to speak?

For sure - and I thank those intrepid pioneers for so much great music, but for me, it all depends on how you define psychedelia.
If you're interested in why I like psych, it's partly because I've 'travelled' a lot in the past, so I guess much of that music will always resonate with me, and can make me feel very happy. There's no doubt that the states of mind of the composers totally infect the music, but it's possible to draw from this and use it. In the 60s, acid helped free people from conventional thought, and this was expressed in their music - these days we really shouldn't need any 'help' to think in our own way.

Nowadays I'm drawn more towards the creative freedom that psychedelia (and certain types of prog for that matter) offers.
Our minds are hugely kaleidoscopic, and so can our music be, yet like sheep, many of us just follow each other, confining ourselves within accepted trends, always looking left and right to make sure we're in line with the others - afraid to take sonic risks.
I love the idea of using music to trigger off the imagination, and being able to take people 'out of themselves', without the use of drugs. I don't think we need them.

Bottom line for me is that sound, and more to the point, what it can do, is absolutely incredible - music has the potential to be mindblowing, all on its own.
Old 21st January 2014
  #308
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpie View Post

Bottom line for me is that sound, and more to the point, what it can do, is absolutely incredible - music has the potential to be mindblowing, all on its own.
and that is why music therapy is useful in treating such a wide range of psychosis. why it is included in religious services in remote monasteries and vast cathedrals. music has a "healing" effect. it is inter-cultural.

to break new ground musically, sometimes a change of perception with plant-based substances is necessary/useful because you are right. in general we are sheep, even when we think we are not. it is hardwired into our brain. drugs can be a safe and highly creative way to rearrange our synapses; change our thought process for a short period of time.

i would encourage drug use if it is of interest to someone creatively. i would first encourage a period of education about what it does, what to expect. etc. the air is polluted. the groundwater has hard metals in it. food is produced with herbicides, pesticides, growth hormones, etc. lots of stuff we ingest is doing far more harm than cannabis, mushroom, etc. use in the interest of art.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #309
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The music you make (or any art) is a direct reflection of who you are as a person. Your art truthfully oozes out the very essence of your being, making some people's art more entertaining, or worthwhile to listen to/watch, simply because of who they are as people.

I don't think drug use directly influenced their music, it's just who they are as people, and THAT is what makes killer albums - the people who live and breathe rock n roll, rebellion... people who have lived a life worth talking about make tunes worth listening to

This is why I only track hungover lol. I'm a poser, but that gives me a rock n roll vibe, bit of an edge. I can't write an album without rum, it's just not rock n roll
Old 22nd January 2014
  #310
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Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks (heroin)

LOLWUT?

Sid was on heroin but he didn't even play on the album.

The rest did speed from time to time but they were just boozers for the most part.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #311
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I love how so many people claim what drug who was on. Where you in the room when they were shooting up or doing a line?
Old 22nd January 2014
  #312
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also a huge fan of psych music. Also agree that drugs aren't necessary to get great results, even in that genre.

Not that i'm anti-drugs ...i'm not. But the way i see it music (even psych) comes from the mind, not from drugs. If one can get there through lucidity and simple exercise of the imagination, then what's wrong with that? Through my own experimentation i find that personally i often get better results that way.

I just look at them as different methods. Drugs can be a viable method, it's only when they become a culture or a way of life are they really problematic. That's why i agree about "keeping it in the closet." People that are in-your-face about it irritate the hell out of me. Use it as vehicle to take you where you wanna go but don't wear it as a fashion statement or preach it like a religion.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #313
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

There is always the wonderous possibility that causality is being evaluated the wrong way around, as so often in this life. And as sometimes impossible to tell.

Fact is A LOT of classic music was made in connection with drugs. But there is no definite causality in that. It may just be that all those guys capable of making such classic music happened to like drugs.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
There is always the wonderous possibility that causality is being evaluated the wrong way around, as so often in this life. And as sometimes impossible to tell.

Fact is A LOT of classic music was made in connection with drugs. But there is no definite causality in that. It may just be that all those guys capable of making such classic music happened to like drugs. :lol:freshflowe

Good point - I first read 'causality' as 'casualty', as in acid casualty, and was wondering what on earth you meant lol.

I think Stockhausen could be a good example of a composer who was vehemently anti-drugs, who made some incredibly 'out-there' and innovative music. He used a combination of meditation and improvisation for much of his works.
In fact, many 60s electronic and music concrete composers made some very extraordinary music, that makes a lot of psych seem quite tame.







Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post

i would encourage drug use if it is of interest to someone creatively.

I wouldn't - I'd encourage meditation. It's often the people who need a little 'help' to unlock their imagination (via hallucinagens) who end up finding it a lot harder to handle, and find their way back to reality.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #315
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Nothing changes your perspective like watching cartoons and patterns on the walls & ceilings and seeing trails in slow motion.
Or calling your '57 Caddy Coupe from across the street like it was a big puppy :-)
Or seeing your dumb drunk GF toss her cookies in your car after you just spent
2 days detailing it.
Or hearing about a 17 year old female school mate who was murdered after getting involved in heroin.
Or hearing the son of the director of the DEA was the biggest hard drug dealer
in your neighborhood. Really!
Seeing other school mates going to prison for being stupid.

There is a good and bad side to most of this and the people who are reasonably rational together people can usually get through it, but others just don't know what to stay away from.

For every incident related to recreational use of substances, nothing took a greater toll than alcohol. Alcohol got kids dead on the way home from a party.
Alcohol put a kid in my school in a wheel chair for life.
Alcohol turns people into Assholes.

If I feel a need to mellow out, Marijuana is still by far the safest.
No more of a buzz than 1 glass of wine and it doesn't leave me with a headache the way alcohol does every time, even one glass of wine or beer.

As far as creative inspiration, sure my trips were especially cool ones, but
it is clear that certain people just don't know when to quit.
Old 22nd January 2014
  #316
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Sanchez's Avatar
Julian Cope and The Teardrop Explodes spent most of the 80's as absolutely spangled, muntered drug pigs. For Cope-ious words about it all from the mouth of the head drude check his back-to-back-2-pack novels Head On/Repossessed. And that some flashing, luscious pop came through because and in spite of their prodigious caning is surely testament to hardy constitutions bred in English rain.

He also went on to write some quite seriously scholarly tomes on Krautrock and Japrock as well as hefty stacks on ancient Britain (The Modern Antiquarian) and more recently on European prehistoric standing stones and temples (The Megalithic European). There was also a great short BBC series around The Modern Antiquarian, here's the first one Julian Cope-The Modern Antiquarian 1/6 - YouTube
Old 24th January 2014
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
You need to read Are we still Rolling by Phill Brown. In fact, everyone needs to read it.

Stephen
read it this summer, fun and engaging...I stand corrected
Old 24th January 2014
  #318
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpie View Post
I wouldn't - I'd encourage meditation. It's often the people who need a little 'help' to unlock their imagination (via hallucinagens) who end up finding it a lot harder to handle, and find their way back to reality.
evidence to support this other than anecdotal, or is this just confirmation bias speaking?
Old 24th January 2014
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
evidence to support this other than anecdotal?
Not that I'd like to share in great detail here, but yes, unfortunately from what I've witnessed long ago, I would say it appears so. Many artistic people I knew seemed to come through more unscathed than other less creative people.
When I was younger, I knew some very 'practically' minded people who had some bad experiences with LSD - it would seem the reality shift might have been too great...or maybe even too appealing, as a form of escapism, as some went on to binge on it, inducing temporary (and in some cases permanent) schizophrenia.
It is because I've witnessed so much drug related tragedy that I feel compelled to make these little hints on this thread. I hope I don't come across as preaching - I'm not meaning to - but 2 suicides of people very close to me relating to LSD induced schizophrenia make it very personal.
I feel (esp as a parent), that it's important to try and keep this topic balanced, so that perhaps impressionable people can get the bigger picture before they might consider experimenting. Who knows who's reading this thread - seems only right to say all this really. Someone has to.
Sorry if I'm dwelling on the negatives. Not cool is it:) I'll get my coat now.


Btw, as FFTT said earlier, I agree that alcohol abuse has an enormous capacity to destroy lives, and is perhaps the most insidious drug of them all.
Old 24th January 2014
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsonic View Post
Btw, as FFTT said earlier, I agree that alcohol abuse has an enormous capacity to destroy lives, and is perhaps the most insidious drug of them all.
so we shouldn't drink either? i'm sorry for your loss. plenty of people do plenty of activities. "premature" death is the result of some of these activities. if the word premature can even be validly used. time of death always has uncertainty attached unless its a life support machine. the probability of you knowing two people who died as a result has to be weighed with those who do not. one extreme example cannot be taken out of context and then used as the rule to enforce behaviour.

i agree with you. for those people who had psychosis induced by taking excess LSD, it was wrong for them. someone should have tried harder to educate them of the possible long term consequences.

regardless of all risks, your probability of dying during a given year doubles every eight years!
Old 24th January 2014
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
so we shouldn't drink either?
Hi Paul - I never said we shouldn't do any of these things - of course - moderation is the key - some of us don't know how to moderate, that's all, and usually it's too late by the time it dawns on you...
I'd quite like to leave it there really - I think it's possible to gauge what I'm really trying to say here, if you read between the lines.
Cheers.
Old 24th January 2014
  #322
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Relevent words from a recent AV Club interview with King Buzzo of The Melvins:
"So, let me get this straight, if I take LSD and heroin, I’ll play like Jimi Hendrix? Really?! I beg to differ. I guarantee there are guitarists down at Guitar Center without a record contract that are on LSD and heroin and will never make any money playing music. They’re putting that little theory to the test every day. I don’t buy it. I don’t care what you do, but I don’t see alcohol and drugs as being anything other than a way to make whatever problems you have in your life bigger. There’s not a problem in the world you can’t make bigger by drinking a fifth of whiskey. If it worked the other way, they would market it as “problem solving whiskey.” But I believe in personal freedom, and you should be able to do what you want, but you should understand that when you kill yourself with booze and drugs, I’m going to think you’re stupid. That’s just how it is."
Old 24th January 2014
  #323
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Swurveman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrydn View Post
This.

MDMA and LSD are special. The emotions you feel on MDMA and LSD are no more or less real than what you feel when you're falling in love with a girl.
Not my experience. The moment when I started hallucinating - and my friends faces started melting and my sense of spatial recognition got really distorted- I felt more like a schizophrenic than a man falling in love with a girl.

So, if I were to generalize like you're doing, I'd say this: If you want to know what it feels like to be schizophrenic, take LSD. Beware that it is extremely unpleasant.
Old 24th January 2014
  #324
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsonic View Post
I feel (esp as a parent), that it's important to try and keep this topic balanced, so that perhaps impressionable people can get the bigger picture before they might consider experimenting. Who knows who's reading this thread - seems only right to say all this really. Someone has to.
Sorry if I'm dwelling on the negatives. Not cool is it I'll get my coat now.

Old 27th January 2014
  #325
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I do admit that substances unlock perceptions that would otherwise go unnoticed.

However, they also mask perceptions as well.

I cite Jason Isbell. That guy just wrote and recorded the best thing he's ever done, and he did it stone sober.

It's highly doubtful to me that he would have been able to be that honest and vulnerable with his songwriting and performances under the influence.

I guess it's a choice. Might you be more "creative" (which usually means 'psychedelic') while using? I guess. Will you be more honest and more likely to cut through to an emotional bedrock that we all share sober? I think probably so. Drugs and alcohol mask real emotions.

I still like "Strawberry Fields Forever," but it doesn't touch me the way that "Cover Me UP" or "Elephant" does.

Maybe it's just that I'm post-40 now.
Old 27th January 2014
  #326
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I am post 40 too and my perception is rather that most people utilise some sort of intoxication in order to express deeply emotional stuff inside them which otherwise goes unvoiced and only comes out when sufficiently intoxicated to dare let it out. FWIW

The intoxication creates its own additional feelings to express that are not there sober, but this doesn't mean that a large part of what comes out intoxicated isn't always in there already....
Old 27th January 2014
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Fact is A LOT of classic music was made in connection with drugs. But there is no definite causality in that. It may just be that all those guys capable of making such classic music happened to like drugs.
If you count alcohol as a drug and I do ALL classical/baroque music was composed, written and performed on drugs.
There was no safe drinking water in european towns and cities. Alcoholic drinks were the only safe way of keeping yourself hydrated for hundreds of years.
Bach, Beethoven, Mozart et al were almost permanently plastered.

I suppose a fair few poorer composers resorted to Laudanum (opium dissolved in alcohol) as it was not taxed at very high levels like tea or coffee being considered a medication.

Personally I think music and drugs went hand-in-hand since shamanic times ie from the very beginning of music as we know it.
Old 27th January 2014
  #328
Dgr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I am post 40 too and my perception is rather that most people utilise some sort of intoxication in order to express deeply emotional stuff inside them which otherwise goes unvoiced and only comes out when sufficiently intoxicated to dare let it out. FWIW

The intoxication creates its own additional feelings to express that are not there sober, but this doesn't mean that a large part of what comes out intoxicated isn't always in there already....
I'd say that nails it.

"You need drugs to be creative."
"Drugs always enhance your creativity."
"Drugs always inhibit your creativity."

All of the foregoing absolutist-type premises are demonstrably false, whether one is talking about music, literature, graphic/physical arts. There is no absolute, universally applicable causal relationship

As is the case with many things in life, the devil is the details, and as the say on the Telly, "your experience may vary."

When I cleaned up I was worried what it might do to my songwriting, but everything got so much better. I am lucky in that respect. I imagine that there are people like me who haven't been as lucky. That their creativity can only exist if they are self-destructing with drugs/alcohol. Then there are people who found or enhanced their creativity through drugs and alcohol but don't self-destruct. So ok, it is viable for them. Personally, I'd rather be in my shoes, not needing that as a catalyst or to get me "over the wall" on a song.
Old 27th January 2014
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I am post 40 too and my perception is rather that most people utilise some sort of intoxication in order to express deeply emotional stuff inside them which otherwise goes unvoiced and only comes out when sufficiently intoxicated to dare let it out. FWIW

The intoxication creates its own additional feelings to express that are not there sober, but this doesn't mean that a large part of what comes out intoxicated isn't always in there already....
Yes, I have a friend who apparently walks around angry all the time because as soon as he drinks enough the aggression starts coming out. So I get what you are saying.

However, just because most people choose to not confront their true emotions and we only see them surface under the influence does not necessarily mean that such an arrangement is a superlative way to make art.

What if the authors of those classic albums had simply dealt with their emotions constructively instead of keeping them locked away and sublimating them into distorted shapes and expressions only available when high or drunk?

I suppose one could argue that they value of that method is that the subconscious automatically creates metaphors for the expression of the emotions, which is essentially what art is.

My counter-argument would be that if the mind can create compelling metaphors to avoid dealing with those emotions, it can create compelling metaphors in order to express them once they have been faced and constructively dealt with. And the advantage I can offer is that the former method of suppression + altered states to tap into the emotions wreaks havoc on the artist's personal life. Health, relationships, finances, etc. Whereas the latter method improves the artist's personal life. A disciple of the former method eventually self-destructs due to the perpetual tug of war between wanting to suppress vs needing to uncover (under the influence) for the art's sake, plus the adverse physical effects of the drugs. An adherent of the 2nd method gets better and better at connecting with the realities of being human and as long as their communication skills are up to snuff, their art should improve proportionally.

And yes, I understand that drugs and alcohol manufacture their own emotions, but again, these are not universal emotions tied to the reality of being human. These are the result of hallucinations, which by definition are tied to the fantasy of human consciousness. That's not to say that common fantasies are irrelevant…they're not. But I find reality more powerful and compelling at my age.

And just so no one thinks I am a prude, I don't think mild pot use or controlled alcohol use necessarily interferes with the process of getting real. But I do think it's on a continuum, and I think if it is carried out to an increasing degree at some point it necessarily will. The problem is that those who rely on it to function either creatively or emotionally are signing up for increasing use.
Old 27th January 2014
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgr View Post
Personally, I'd rather be in my shoes, not needing that as a catalyst or to get me "over the wall" on a song.
Me too these days. Whenever I very occasionally try to get a tiniest bit of quality (that word being very important!) pot into it (absolutely nothing else these days) the likelyhood of disappointment is bigger and bigger as the downsides become dominant and the loss of clarity annoying. Funny how a smell or other association from the past still means 'good' until you completely redefine it internally. Which hasn't happened with pot for me and actually might never do as sometimes it just still works in tiny quantities and is enjoyable and harmless (at that frequency and amount), but all the other stuff is thoroughly labelled 'bad' since a long time and not in the least tempting.

But then there is also a different kind of 'getting over the wall', like the one ecstasy can do with dance music. I remember at first, around 1990 I couldn't stand dance stuff and thought it was a tedious metronome rubbish thing. Then pills happened to me and since then I love house music. No pills for decades now, but will always keep loving that house music. Well, the forms it takes now can make it difficult (as it often is so bloody technical and sanitised sounding it doesn't function in the way house is supposed to anymore), but the good stuff...
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