The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
I call BS! 70's style drums sound IS possible on a DAW Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 2nd December 2009
  #121
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 

Okay I'll play catch that 70's vibe
How about these, some old jam tapes from way back?
Attached Files

01 Waarom stopt ie_.mp3 (5.49 MB, 351 views)

Fulco goes Afrika '70 160.mp3 (5.34 MB, 241 views)

Old 2nd December 2009
  #122
Gear Maniac
 
Stuart Coleco's Avatar
??

Why would you want to go backwards and emulate the 70's ?

Those drum sounds kinda sucked IMO. Cardboard..no definition like today's drum sounds that sound actually like the drum it came from with real wood or metal tones and modern quality heads better lug and mounting hardware better sticks and dampening etc...

Weren't the White Stripes all about trying to capture that 70's Zep sound? Cool for minute but, ....Where are they now ?
Old 3rd December 2009
  #123
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
Why would you want to go backwards and emulate the 70's ?

Because I like the vibe and sound of that era best. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to 'emulate' anything, I'm trying to 'evoke' it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
Those drum sounds kinda sucked IMO.

Fair enough, we've all got our opinions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
Cardboard..no definition like today's drum sounds that sound actually like the drum it came from with real wood or metal tones and modern quality heads better lug and mounting hardware better sticks and dampening etc...

Could not agree less with your assessment of the 70's sound, which was every bit as diverse as any other era, including now.

Interesting that you mention "today's drum sounds" as if there were such a thing. If you listen to major label pop and rock, most of what you hear is sample augmented or replaced drums, nothing real about it. I'd say at least half the music produced today uses loops, samples, sequences, and machines to generate rhythms.

Jazz recordings don't sound real to me anymore, not like they did in the 50's. Where does all that 14k on a ride cymbal and brushed snare come from? I've never heard a real drum kit sound like they do on jazz recordings now.

Country? Forget it, all fake.

There are tons of great sounding drum recordings done after the 70's, I know this. But I like the 70's best, and I certainly can't agree that there is any one identifying characteristic of a 'modern' drum sound, other than massive compression. But the one thing I'm *not* hearing as a rule is realism or authenticity.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #124
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
Why would you want to go backwards and emulate the 70's ?

Those drum sounds kinda sucked IMO. Cardboard..no definition like today's drum sounds that sound actually like the drum it came from with real wood or metal tones and modern quality heads better lug and mounting hardware better sticks and dampening etc...

Weren't the White Stripes all about trying to capture that 70's Zep sound? Cool for minute but, ....Where are they now ?
Aren't The White Stripes still rather huge? If not, I don't think it's because of their sound, it might be because of their music...the songs...those are kind of crucial, too.

Funny that the Stripes drummer is considered maybe the worst ever, and yet emulating a drummer considered one of the best ever...maybe the most emulated drum sound, too...not my fave however...I like dead cardboard (you'd think it'd be easy to get such a "sucky" sound, and yet...)!!

they also left out one of the best things about the 70s...the bass....
Old 3rd December 2009
  #125
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
they also left out one of the best things about the 70s...the bass....

That's the element where I still feel the farthest away from in terms of capturing the vibe. They were so masterful at making bass audible on little speakers, but full and rich on bigs, and none of it had anywhere near the massive bottom octave that's so prevalent --- and assumed to be essential --- today.

If you got any suggestions, I'm all ears.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #126
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post

If you got any suggestions, I'm all ears.
.
Well these are my thoughts in no order...

first, I think bass amps changed, don't know what they did but it ain't good...need a 70s era amp...

second, a good bass, of course, old Fender or Rickenbacker and so on...basses changed, don't know what they did, but it ain't good...

third, the right strings, maybe a little dirty, not all metallic and boinky, unless you like Yes or The Who type sounds...

fourth, a delicious bassline...whatever happened to those? The bass used to *move*...something that's worthy of being nearly as loud as the vocal and louder than the kick...

fifth, 70s era type recording gear to be truly authentic...I don't think any crazy EQing or compression really is necessary except to even out a bit...or for effect, overly limited or something...

sixth, a bass player with *the feel* and the tone in the fingers, or the pick for that matter...depending... (the player should be mentioned first, of course, but does it really does have to be mentioned at all??)...

seventh, all the other elements of the song in the right places...

that's all the ideas I got!
Old 3rd December 2009
  #127
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

I miss all those melodic bass players from the R&B school. What a sound, the bass players could hold down the groove, the bottom, yet still sing and swing through the tune without stepping on the singers toes. You'd leave the song hearing the words.....yet singing the bassline. That's a special thing.

I STILL mix bass upfront, because I think it sounds good and most of my stuff is instrumental, so whatever instruments being used have to try a sing something, taking turns with a melody. And the bass gets it's turn for sure. Not soloing, just a simple interweaving melody here and there.

For 70's bass, I'd say more of a mid hump so the bass and kick can hit together without cancelation, the two together create the roundness, almost one sound, yet the bass still has a defined note and SOME body when it's not playing on the down beats.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #128
What do you guys think of Jeff Porcaro's drum sound on Leo Sayer's When I Need You from 1976?

That was THE sound that inspired me to take up drums. In addition to the innovative and tasteful playing (although some may argue the fills were overplayed), I believe the drum sound was ahead of its time because the toms, for example, didn't have the typical boxy and overly dead sound; they had a nice sustain and good tone. The snare sounds great too. I attribute a lot of this, however, to Jeff himself, as elements of that sound are heard on other recordings he played on during the time.

I'd say another standout during that time, which probably has never been mentioned, is the drum sound (and playing) on Rhapsody In White by The Love Unlimited Orchestra (conducted by Barry White) [1975]. Not sure who the drummer is, but the sound and playing is absolutely perfect for that music.

EDIT: Some others I feel were much better than average then: All the drums on Livin' On The Fault Line by The Doobie Brothers. I also like the drum sound on Johnny Guitar Watson's albums from the mid 70s (nice and tight piccolo snare sound with silky, shimmering cymbal sound). Two that come to mind are A Real Mother For Ya & Funk Beyond The Call Of Duty.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #129
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
Okay I'll play catch that 70's vibe
How about these, some old jam tapes from way back?
That's it... sounds 70's to me... although - it is not "in the DAW", is it? It is recreated with your cool vintage set-up, including tape, right?

So the answer could be - it is possible today, with the style and gear of the past.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #130
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 

First one is ITB Digi001 but yes with real seventies instruments :p
a bit of impro between me on drums & Fulco playing Rhodes & Bass rhodes, then I added some Minimoog & Conga's and a Clarinet I pitch shifted, (I just bought a clarinet a few weeks earlier but already given up on that route, reed & wind instruments require to much exhaling) heh
The second one is recorded to a Tascam 38, and is just Fulco playing the instruments, a song he had in his head (after listening to a lot of Fela Kuti) he played all the parts starting with drums, bass, guitar, farfisa, vocals, percussion
I mixed drums to 2 tracks, then 1 track bass, 1 guitar, 1 organ, 2 vocals 1 percussion
then mixdown to cd with roland ensemble & spring reverb on the vocals that's it.
it's not perfect but it was a fun time, It's what happens when you have friends over and it get's late into the evening,
Old 3rd December 2009
  #131
Lives for gear
 
lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
First one is ITB Digi001 but yes with real seventies instruments :p
a bit of impro between me on drums & Fulco playing Rhodes & Bass rhodes, then I added some Minimoog & Conga's and a Clarinet I pitch shifted, (I just bought a clarinet a few weeks earlier but already given up on that route, reed & wind instruments require to much exhaling) heh
The second one is recorded to a Tascam 38, and is just Fulco playing the instruments, a song he had in his head (after listening to a lot of Fela Kuti) he played all the parts starting with drums, bass, guitar, farfisa, vocals, percussion
I mixed drums to 2 tracks, then 1 track bass, 1 guitar, 1 organ, 2 vocals 1 percussion
then mixdown to cd with roland ensemble & spring reverb on the vocals that's it.
it's not perfect but it was a fun time, It's what happens when you have friends over and it get's late into the evening,
DUDE!!

Well done.... GR8 vibe and playing. Great feel and nice tones all around. I don't want to post up my sample anymore but i still will once its ready..
Old 3rd December 2009
  #132
Lives for gear
 
lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Sure there are a few cack ups, but I'm keeping these in my itunes if you don't mind

Russell
Old 3rd December 2009
  #133
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by magus888 View Post
Don't listen to jazz fusion much? AKA: Herbie Hancock, Jean-Luc Ponty, Frank Zappa ect.....
Herbie may well be my all time favorite musician. He's certainly my #1 living person I'd like to spend an afternoon with to get into how he thinks. The drums on Chameleon, for instance, DO have that sound I associate with the 70's. There's some punchy bottom and a good effective compression that just adds a bit of glue without dominating the sound in any way. The sound of the drums is my absolute favorite thing about many of the crossover tunes of the 70's.

The other thing that defined that sound was the snare. It had some meat to it. It's not a natural sound. I've never hit a snare drum and had it have that kind of thud to it without some processing. These things balanced the breathiness of the cymbals.

Because each of the elements was so outstanding in it's own right, when they were blended together with some expertly applied compression, the result is something I heard in my head for decades every time I sat down at a drum set.

Drum sets, however, do not sound that way on their own.

I hear the nice open high end in your recording, and I like it... but I'm not hearing the rest of what makes that sound for me.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #134
Gear Maniac
 
Stuart Coleco's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Because I like the vibe and sound of that era best. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to 'emulate' anything, I'm trying to 'evoke' it.





Fair enough, we've all got our opinions.





Could not agree less with your assessment of the 70's sound, which was every bit as diverse as any other era, including now.

Interesting that you mention "today's drum sounds" as if there were such a thing. If you listen to major label pop and rock, most of what you hear is sample augmented or replaced drums, nothing real about it. I'd say at least half the music produced today uses loops, samples, sequences, and machines to generate rhythms.

Jazz recordings don't sound real to me anymore, not like they did in the 50's. Where does all that 14k on a ride cymbal and brushed snare come from? I've never heard a real drum kit sound like they do on jazz recordings now.

Country? Forget it, all fake.

There are tons of great sounding drum recordings done after the 70's, I know this. But I like the 70's best, and I certainly can't agree that there is any one identifying characteristic of a 'modern' drum sound, other than massive compression. But the one thing I'm *not* hearing as a rule is realism or authenticity.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
I couldn't imagine a major label exec saying ...ooooh you really nailed that 70's vibe... we're going to make bags of money. lol

A lot of those samples you're frustrated by were actually played by someone before they were sampled.

I can't comment on what modern Jazz sounds like..I didn't go to college. Nor can i comment on mainstream pop, rock, or country..I don't listen to that either. I think all that stuff is for 14 yr old girls.

Funny thing is I listen to mostly music made in the 70's, like Steely Dan. Now there's an awesome drum sound. I wouldn't at all say Steely drums sound realistic. They sound bigger than life, more real than real. Isn't that what most listeners wanna hear anways ? And with today's tech you have a lot more options with your sounds...Maybe that's why drums today aren't as easily defined as that "70's vibe" you are trying to evoke...
Old 3rd December 2009
  #135
Gear Addict
 

I can't believe this thread is still going! Lots of great posts in here.

Cheerz
Old 3rd December 2009
  #136
Lives for gear
 
BOWIE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Because I like the vibe and sound of that era best. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to 'emulate' anything, I'm trying to 'evoke' it.
Well put and whole-heartedly agreed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Aren't The White Stripes still rather huge?
Yes, you're right. And, they have made a significant impact, influencing many band to go retro. I'm not saying that it's good, bad, or otherwise though. Only that the idea that nobody likes that sound of 70s drums is based in fallacy.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #137
Gear Maniac
 
Stuart Coleco's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
I like dead cardboard (you'd think it'd be easy to get such a "sucky" sound, and yet...)!!

Sorry i overstated myself...not all 70's drum sounds suck...yep Zep drum sounds are pretty awesome and yeah the classics are classics in everyway...although, bands like The Velvet Underground, Stooges, Ramones..etc..i would say, drum sounds not so great.


I'm pretty young so I wonder if engineers in the 70's were like man I wish I could emulate that sound from the 50's with this big console and 24 channel tape deck.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #138
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
Sorry i overstated myself...not all 70's drum sounds suck...yep Zep drum sounds are pretty awesome and yeah the classics are classics in everyway...although, bands like The Velvet Underground, Stooges, Ramones..etc..i would say, drum sounds not so great.


I'm pretty young so I wonder if engineers in the 70's were like man I wish I could emulate that sound from the 50's with this big console and 24 channel tape deck.
I ain't old, but I believe to a certain degree many did...I think many who were there have stated they didn't really like the "dead" close mic-ed sound...I read an interview with, I think it was Joni Mitchell, and she was going on about how she hated the dead Beatle drum sound and likes a big open ringing kick ala jazz and big band music...
Old 3rd December 2009
  #139
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
I miss all those melodic bass players from the R&B school. What a sound, the bass players could hold down the groove, the bottom, yet still sing and swing through the tune without stepping on the singers toes. You'd leave the song hearing the words.....yet singing the bassline. That's a special thing.
Speaking of jazz, it's interesting how much jazz probably influenced much of the music of the 60s/70s...

The Funk Brothers, the Wrecking Crew, british session guys, band guys like John Paul Jones, Charlie Watts...countless others...all raised on jazz...no doubt it influenced what they played, their technique and their creativity...not sure if that's true of pop musicians now...
Old 4th December 2009
  #140
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
What do you guys think of Jeff Porcaro's drum sound on Leo Sayer's When I Need You from 1976?
Never really noticed that one but had a listen...sounds good...the sound of the 70s was getting pretty slick...produced by Richard Perry, who is a genius producer...

the musicians on that are a who's who of 70s musicians...Steve Gadd and Nigel Olsson are also on there....

Speaking of Gadd, couldn't find the actual version, but not many (or any) songs have stuff like this anymore...a drum lick as hook...does Adam Lambert think about this sort of thing? I don't think so...it's no wonder so many look back:

Old 4th December 2009
  #141
Lives for gear
 
ElMosca's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Speaking of Gadd, couldn't find the actual version, but not many (or any) songs have stuff like this anymore...a drum lick as hook...
How about this one (from the "Related Videos")



Cheers,
++aldo
Old 4th December 2009
  #142
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
I'm pretty young so I wonder if engineers in the 70's were like man I wish I could emulate that sound from the 50's with this big console and 24 channel tape deck.

The answer is yes, a great many of them (especially those who were actually alive and into music from the 50's) did exactly that: they longed for the sound of an era where the room defined the recording, where musicians all played at the same time in a single room with a small number of microphones, channels, and processors capturing 1 or 2 tracks of living, breathing music, and where nobody went home until the song was done right and, as a result, done.

Everyone has different preferences, for no better reason than it's what they happen to like. You don't seem completely ok with that reality, which, I reckon, is ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
I couldn't imagine a major label exec saying ...ooooh you really nailed that 70's vibe... we're going to make bags of money. lol
I gotta say, I don't have a clue what major label execs say, or think, or want... and I'm reeeaalllllly glad for that! heh


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 15th January 2010
  #143
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Where's everybody at ! ! ? ?

oK, Since I'm the only who is SERIOUSLY obsessed with music that lived in an era of floraled wallpaper, the right greens , and ladies with real bodies, here goes one!

There are some really killer lyrics written for this one and I intend to sing them one day, here's the music that goes with though. Whatever era it may draw inspiration from (I feel it's a pretty blend of one era's style with another era's sounds), I think it's drenched in mojo/aesthetics that the 70's pretty much played a part in making that comfortable/familiar sound.

The song is called "Yesterday's lover", click my myspace page under my sig and it's in the list of tunes, it's easy to find.

CHEERS!
steelyfan

I jammed this on my buddies hi-fi today, first time I've heard it on stereo speakers and not my monitors......
Old 16th January 2010
  #144
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 

Haha Steely keeps going!
hmm obsession pissing contest? heh
I'm more obsessed, no I am, no me....

well it has a 70-ish vibe to it so mission accomplished, wondering bout the lyrics though it could use something else
Old 16th January 2010
  #145
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
Haha Steely keeps going!
hmm obsession pissing contest? heh
I'm more obsessed, no I am, no me....

well it has a 70-ish vibe to it so mission accomplished, wondering bout the lyrics though it could use something else
Hey hey.
Yea, it was written for vocals, they;ll bring the melody and add variation to the tune. It's not finshed but if a waited till i did the vocals to post, might have been awhile.
No, I'm more obsessed..........lol
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
The dman / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
1
dero / So much gear, so little time
0
joeq / So much gear, so little time
3
cwar05 / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
3
e-cue / The Moan Zone
29

Forum Jump
Forum Jump