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Clarity and depth of the 70's vs DAW and hard drive: Is it possible... Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 13th November 2009
  #211
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I think alot of current commercial record producers use a generic formula for the sound of the song instead of being really intouch with the vision of the song. Adding to much fancy widgets in the signal path instead of letting the sound be.

Wich reminds me, I wonder if people still do the reverb chamber thing anymore. Also, plate reverb is a dsp hardware or software circuit now than it was a real device.

I wonder when mixing down to a laquor disk became antiquated.

I heard that micing techniques engineers expiramented with, and people don't use today.

I still blame compression, because I've layed down tracks and used old micing techniques that were expiramented with, used no compression, and got a real old (vintage ) feel to it.

I also think engineers who just go to school don't get taught to expirament. I didn't go to school, I learned my trade through others, researched through using the library, and expiramented on my own. Big deal they went to school to learn a transport program, woopy wow, what matters is not the machine used to capture, its the knob behind the knob that really counts.
Old 13th November 2009
  #212
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
... She could have used a Kurzweil and "No One" would have noticed...
This is the problem. People have this idea that real music performances can be perfected by making them sound like quantized samples played by a sequencer. It's a mind boggling perversion of music yet this is happening before our eyes (and, unfortunately our ears.)
Old 13th November 2009
  #213
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
This is the problem. People have this idea that real music performances can be perfected by making them sound like quantized samples played by a sequencer. It's a mind boggling perversion of music yet this is happening before our eyes (and, unfortunately our ears.)
But mostly only by professionals. I mean yea, kids with soft synths making bedroom music are ovious offenders too, but most of the creative bands/artist that aren't on the radio are making painstakingly wonderful music with real instruments, even using classic recording philosophies while we watch stars and famed producers/engineers "move on" with technology. And these "quantized samples" are the sounds that the up and coming, ambitious young go getters are seeing as "pro quality". ..........yikes.
Old 13th November 2009
  #214
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Talent is more than just being able to play 'fancy'..... There is soooo much stuff from my youth {late 60s early 70s} that was just hype above substance. All rich boys with toys. There were amazing "talented musicians" playing on the fekkin Wombles..... but that's hardly an example of "talent" is it? Music is a decision based medium - playing ability isnt an issue. Most of the greats in the 70s could not hold a candle to the greats of the 50s - who in turn could next to the Gene Krupers of this world in a bygone age. So we have to take the physical playing prowess out of the equation - otherwise Bob Dylan is crap and that just aint so. His social commentary was his talent - in much the same way as Lou Reeds was, then Joe Strummer etc etc..... Talent isn't ability.


Talent is being remarkable and away from the norm - so..... why champion the 70's as some factual brilliance? The music of yesteryear has little relevance to todays society other than as nostalgia. Sure - loads of aces stuff from back in the day. But there equally excellent things being made now - same in movies, same in theatre, same in literature. It just changes.

I'm right now ploughing through hundreds of multitrack tapes of legendary tracks of yesteryear doing archive work and new format remixes for sync use....... and I'll tell you what I've learnt

Stewart Copeland was a great ideas drummer but has no balance in his playing and had terrible bass drum technique.
Hugh Padgam makes a LOT of gaffs in his recording techniques
Rich Blackmore is pretty crap on guitar during soling - unmuted strings galore - hidden in the mix.... good riffer though
James Jameson - legend though he was - had ringing strings a kimbo
Aretha Franklin sang out of tune - a lot. {Still sounded ace though }
Jimmy Page was scrappy and some of his parts are made to sound good by JPJ and Bonhams spaciousness around the gaffs.... again in the mix {doesn change some of the genius ideas though}
Lemmy was an incredible tight bass player but the drummer sucked {hide it in the mix}
Supertramp - overdub tastic and punch ins a plenty!!


Didnt matter - still great records.

what I've also learned from modern stuff....

the Kaiser Chiefs bass player is fekkin amazing. The drummer is ****.
Razorlight have no idea how to arrange tracks - but the singer is a one take wonder
Stereophonics - none of them can play well BUT singers voice is a clear winner
Nick Zinner of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs is one of the most technically adept guitaris ever
Dave Grohl hits hard - but chokes the drums. Sample tastic on the three I've worked so far!!
Josh Homme is an exceptionally gifted guitarist in terms of discipline
Pulps keyboard player was fantastic - yet you read or here nothing about her. Drummer sucked.
Old 13th November 2009
  #215
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lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Talent is more than just being able to play 'fancy'..... There is soooo much stuff from my youth {late 60s early 70s} that was just hype above substance. All rich boys with toys. There were amazing "talented musicians" playing on the fekkin Wombles..... but that's hardly an example of "talent" is it? Music is a decision based medium - playing ability isnt an issue. Most of the greats in the 70s could not hold a candle to the greats of the 50s - who in turn could next to the Gene Krupers of this world in a bygone age. So we have to take the physical playing prowess out of the equation - otherwise Bob Dylan is crap and that just aint so. His social commentary was his talent - in much the same way as Lou Reeds was, then Joe Strummer etc etc..... Talent isn't ability.


Talent is being remarkable and away from the norm - so..... why champion the 70's as some factual brilliance? The music of yesteryear has little relevance to todays society other than as nostalgia. Sure - loads of aces stuff from back in the day. But there equally excellent things being made now - same in movies, same in theatre, same in literature. It just changes.

I'm right now ploughing through hundreds of multitrack tapes of legendary tracks of yesteryear doing archive work and new format remixes for sync use....... and I'll tell you what I've learnt

Stewart Copeland was a great ideas drummer but has no balance in his playing and had terrible bass drum technique.
Hugh Padgam makes a LOT of gaffs in his recording techniques
Rich Blackmore is pretty crap on guitar during soling - unmuted strings galore - hidden in the mix.... good riffer though
James Jameson - legend though he was - had ringing strings a kimbo
Aretha Franklin sang out of tune - a lot. {Still sounded ace though }
Jimmy Page was scrappy and some of his parts are made to sound good by JPJ and Bonhams spaciousness around the gaffs.... again in the mix {doesn change some of the genius ideas though}
Lemmy was an incredible tight bass player but the drummer sucked {hide it in the mix}
Supertramp - overdub tastic and punch ins a plenty!!


Didnt matter - still great records.

what I've also learned from modern stuff....

the Kaiser Chiefs bass player is fekkin amazing. The drummer is ****.
Razorlight have no idea how to arrange tracks - but the singer is a one take wonder
Stereophonics - none of them can play well BUT singers voice is a clear winner
Nick Zinner of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs is one of the most technically adept guitaris ever
Dave Grohl hits hard - but chokes the drums. Sample tastic on the three I've worked so far!!
Josh Homme is an exceptionally gifted guitarist in terms of discipline
Pulps keyboard player was fantastic - yet you read or here nothing about her. Drummer sucked.
Cool post, fun facts.

Russell
Old 13th November 2009
  #216
My benchmark would probably be The Band. Feel and atmosphere and vibe out the ying yang, but pretty sloppy in technical terms. Garth was amazingly technically talented of course, and Levon's drumming was seriously nice. But you can hear plenty of mistakes in those classic first two albums, and no one would remotely care because they have it where it counts.

But if you posted one of their songs from the first two albums in the 'work in progress' area here and asked for comments (and it wouldn't be surpising if a lot of younger folks weren't familiar with some of their less well known tunes and might be fooled), and said it was your latest project studio piece, it probably wouldn't even get a comment unless someone was in a bad mood and just purposefully wanted to hurt someone's feelings. Otherwise probably most folks wouldn't consider it worth commenting on.
Old 13th November 2009
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post

I myself like to think about Brittney Spears (just an example) making a record at Daptone Studio, where a warm and worn, old school analog sound could put some Blue Velvet in her pop song formula . That would make sense muscially/sonically to me. Her new song 3 is sexy, but the production is not. It NEEDED to be recorded like a 70's porno, that would have made sense, and even made the song MORE provocative. But that idea was probablly never considered, because they were trying to do something well recorded.
Not a bad idea....probably would have given her more cred...

but I think, generally speaking, that it makes sense to move forward...

The Beatles wanted to sound like Elvis, Little Richard and Chuck Berry, but they sound nothing like them really...they wanted to move forward...they just happened to do it in good way ...Many probably thought it wasn't a good way at all though, abusing the sound with all kinds of compression and distortion and FX.
Old 13th November 2009
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Talent is being remarkable and away from the norm - so..... why champion the 70's as some factual brilliance? The music of yesteryear has little relevance to todays society other than as nostalgia. Sure - loads of aces stuff from back in the day. But there equally excellent things being made now - same in movies, same in theatre, same in literature. It just changes.
What is equally excellent from today...name a pop song on the radio that's as good as Bohemian Rhapsody...?

Technical abilities or not...and other than maybe some hip hop or rap or dance music...the blueprint for pop music as we know it was created in the 60s and 70s...there were some creative monsters then...songwriting, arranging, rule breaking...no one today comes close (the sound is the least of the worries...)...
Old 13th November 2009
  #219
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
What is equally excellent from today...name a pop song on the radio that's as good as Bohemian Rhapsody...?

Technical abilities or not...and other than maybe some hip hop or rap or dance music...the blueprint for pop music was created in the 60s and 70s...there were some creative monsters then...songwriting, arranging, rule breaking...no one comes close...
We shouldn't underestimate the role of moolah either. There was a lot of money to be made, and audiences were wanting more creative, challenging stuff, for a while there anyway. Without those two things, there may still be music of that sort, but not on the radio, and no money behind it.

It's funny that, in the supposed age of semi-socialist revolution, artists were making the most money ever, and everyone knew it, with their private jets and mansions and such, and people still bought their records by the boat load. Now, in the supposed age of shallow capitalism, the entire internet is full of people screaming about how rich artists and labels don't deserve all that money and people should be able to take the music for free.
Old 13th November 2009
  #220
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
abusing the sound with all kinds of compression and distortion and FX.
That's a good point. But you're right, it was done in a musical way. Thing is, that distortion and compression stood out nicely because it was being supported by other sounds that didn't interfere with the integrity of their rule breaking. I like that.......... fuzz and distortion with integrity. .. LOL.

But also, I wouldn't consider "moving ahead" advancements in sound, only variations on the idea. Otherwise, we wouldn't have that large ITB VS OTB thread going on, it's going on because technology with making music has become more important than the sound, and people are calling bull**** because technology sounds inferior.
Old 13th November 2009
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
We shouldn't underestimate the role of moolah either. There was a lot of money to be made, and audiences were wanting more creative, challenging stuff, for a while there anyway. Without those two things, there may still be music of that sort, but not on the radio, and no money behind it.
Maybe, but I never really understand that thought...bands like Queen and The Beatles pushed the boundaries and continue to make more cash years after the fact and they don't even exist as bands anymore...and it's not just nostalgia...and it wasn't really all that challenging...it was mostly catchy as hell, well done, but still easy to listen to...

their music still sounds edgy, still on the radio, still influencing new bands (who wish they could come up with such good stuff)...
Old 13th November 2009
  #222
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
there may still be music of that sort, but not on the radio, and no money behind it.

True. I hardly have any friends who really listen to the radio. We buy our music direct from Record Labels or the artist labels themselves. That includes t-shirts or cool vinyl + t-shirt package deals. It's rather exciting really, waiting for that record to show up, unpackage and put it on the turn table...... make a drink, open the window and light a smoke.......needle down.............sweet fidelity rises.

I still make it a ritual. I make time. It's important.

I could give a damn about mp3's or even the future of big business music marketing. Artist will always create music, even if it's not selling, it's art, when does art sell? LOL.. Muscians will make a living gigging. The great art will sell lots and be discovered by those who look, funding more time for great music to be made.

People will still listen to the radio, and it will dictate what their music options are as they muff down another big mac and listen to music on the run from their ipods. Either way, it doesn't affect my music love affair.
Old 13th November 2009
  #223
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I don't think the concept of radio has changed as much as people suggest...there was always "crappy" pop for people with "no taste" (not that there's anything wrong with that...)

it's the good music I'm talking about...it's simply not as good...

could be lots of reasons...maybe it's just an old and worn out genre...is jazz as good as it used to be? I don't listen to that stuff, but I'm guessing there really aren't any new Miles Davis' or Duke Ellingtons....
Old 14th November 2009
  #224
Gear Maniac
 
Fab4ever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
This is the problem. People have this idea that real music performances can be perfected by making them sound like quantized samples played by a sequencer. It's a mind boggling perversion of music yet this is happening before our eyes (and, unfortunately our ears.)
Exactly right.

The following is right on your point:

The Death Of Mistakes Means The Death Of Rock - Monitor Mix Blog : NPR
Old 14th November 2009
  #225
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
What is equally excellent from today...name a pop song on the radio that's as good as Bohemian Rhapsody...?

Technical abilities or not...and other than maybe some hip hop or rap or dance music...the blueprint for pop music as we know it was created in the 60s and 70s...there were some creative monsters then...songwriting, arranging, rule breaking...no one today comes close (the sound is the least of the worries...)...
where's the point of comparison? Queen made BR big because they were Queen. I think the track is rather good but musically equalled in any west end production. But for this listener? no

Songs as good? MGMT have done songs as good - the the bias towards a nostalgic legend is unfair. QOTSA have made several whole albums better than any single Queen album - Queen , for me were a great singles band but albums? hmmmm

You have to compare like for like - rock opera isn't popular at the moment - although I'd put Muse in a technical capacity as far greater players {if not vocals - Freddy is hard to beat!!} than any on Queen - yes even Brian May.

Gary Barlow - EASILY as good a writer as Benny & Bjorn - fair comparison. Honestly - you can use nostalgia as a comparison point but its something modern acts cant compete with. Yes the guys back in the day were first to do many things - but we're under an entirely different kind of comparison now.....
Old 14th November 2009
  #226
Gear Nut
 
SubwayRocket's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=Dean Roddey;4780525]Originally Posted by Dean Roddey
there may still be music of that sort, but not on the radio, and no money behind it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

When I play stuff like Styx, Chicago, Pink Floyd, Steely, LIttle River Band, Gerry Rafferty, Beatles, Fleetwood Mac . . . on and on . My 16 yr old kid asks "why don't they make music like this today. Him and all his friends are at my house listening to all my stuff. They love it. I think all these kids realize alot of the stuff crammed down their throat is crap. I played Spectrum (Billy Cobham) for one of the kids who plays drums, the kid was floored, and when I told him this is like 35 yrs old... Lol. And Half of my fusion albums,they already heard them... they use all that 70's fusion in video games. Like Larry Coryell Eleventh House, Spectrum, Same thing with cars today... tiny, and crap.
I remember riding in my uncles 65 Caddy, Hell, I had a 79 Olds Toronado and
everything was bigger, fatter, smoother, more Lush. They cant afford to make stuff
like that today, Music, Cars, everything made quicker, smaller, no QC ,
Music with a higher level of arrangement and harmonies is a small minority today, and as mp3 downloads went up, music declined. IMHO .
The world is run by MBA's , . . . . My 2 cents.... Fire away yall. . .
Old 14th November 2009
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubwayRocket View Post
When I play stuff like Styx, Chicago, Pink Floyd, Steely, LIttle River Band, Gerry Rafferty, Beatles, Fleetwood Mac . . . on and on . My 16 yr old kid asks "why don't they make music like this today. Him and all his friends are at my house listening to all my stuff. They love it. I think all these kids realize alot of the stuff crammed down their throat is crap. I played Spectrum (Billy Cobham) for one of the kids who plays drums, the kid was floored, and when I told him this is like 35 yrs old... Lol. And Half of my fusion albums,they already heard them... they use all that 70's fusion in video games. Like Larry Coryell Eleventh House, Spectrum, Same thing with cars today... tiny, and crap.
I remember riding in my uncles 65 Caddy, Hell, I had a 79 Olds Toronado and
everything was bigger, fatter, smoother, more Lush. They cant afford to make stuff
like that today, Music, Cars, everything made quicker, smaller, no QC ,
Music with a higher level of arrangement and harmonies is a small minority today, and as mp3 downloads went up, music declined. IMHO .
The world is run by MBA's , . . . . My 2 cents.... Fire away yall. . .
You are absolutely right, and your kids too. You forgot to add Stanley Clarke's School Days, Jaco Pastorius, Ray Gomez, Return to Forever's Romantic Warrior... and in case you haven't heard it, check out Lenny White's Adventures of Astral Pirate (a must have).
Old 14th November 2009
  #228
There are going to be kids in any generation who, in music as with literature, cars, fashions, politics, etc... will find something in some previous generation that speaks to them more than their own does. I was one of those kids in my time. But you can't really draw from that any evidence that the kids today are being force fed music that they believe is horrible. It's just not true, based on pretty undeniable buying/downloading trends, and comments on the net that you can read yourself.

In my day, folks like me and my friends were very definitely the exception, not the rule. So, yeh, some older guy could have looked at us and made the same sort of claims, but it wouldn't have been valid then either. The vast bulk of kids were listening to whatever was popular at the time, and they didn't think it sucked.
Old 14th November 2009
  #229
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
There are going to be kids in any generation who, in music as with literature, cars, fashions, politics, etc... will find something in some previous generation that speaks to them more than their own does.
Being a kid in the 60's, and I feel very fortunate to have grown up with the best music as it was actually going down right through the 70's. thumbsup
Old 14th November 2009
  #230
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camus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
My benchmark would probably be The Band. Feel and atmosphere and vibe out the ying yang, but pretty sloppy in technical terms. Garth was amazingly technically talented of course, and Levon's drumming was seriously nice. But you can hear plenty of mistakes in those classic first two albums, and no one would remotely care because they have it where it counts.

But if you posted one of their songs from the first two albums in the 'work in progress' area here and asked for comments (and it wouldn't be surpising if a lot of younger folks weren't familiar with some of their less well known tunes and might be fooled), and said it was your latest project studio piece, it probably wouldn't even get a comment unless someone was in a bad mood and just purposefully wanted to hurt someone's feelings. Otherwise probably most folks wouldn't consider it worth commenting on.
Wow. And there I was thinking that records like those are PRECISELY why we have a gigantic cottage industry of warmifiers, tubifiers, tape-ifiers, vintage reissues of old hardware, software emulations, U47 knockoffs, ribbon mics and so forth.
Old 14th November 2009
  #231
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus View Post
Wow. And there I was thinking that records like those are PRECISELY why we have a gigantic cottage industry of warmifiers, tubifiers, tape-ifiers, vintage reissues of old hardware, software emulations, U47 knockoffs, ribbon mics and so forth.
I was responding to the whole 'death of mistakes' thing, i.e. music being edited to perfection, not about hardware and sonic issues.
Old 14th November 2009
  #232
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can we consider for a moment that frankly, there is much less to be discovered anymore?

In 1969, when you went to your friend's house after school, and he put on Led Zeppelin I, you'd never heard anything like it. Revolver - never heard anything like it. The list goes on, until you reach a point where most music becomes a variation on a theme. Why? Because it's mostly been done.

These days, no matter how inventive a band is these days (let's take a mainstream example like Radiohead - Kid A), there is a reference point from which it ultimately came. There was no reference point for Bitches Brew or Dark side of the Moon or Tago Mago, or Neu 75.

The last frontier of groundbreaking musical thought is in the electronic music realm - Warp Records and that circle of folks. Even then, there is usually a reference point.

Simply put, music itself may be infinite, but the creation of genuinely new music is not. There is only so much water on planet earth. Once it's all found, it's all found. You can bottle it however you want - it's still found water.
Old 14th November 2009
  #233
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desotoslo's Avatar
 

have you seen the bottom of the deep sea?
Old 14th November 2009
  #234
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJGoody View Post
In 1969, when you went to your friend's house after school, and he put on Led Zeppelin I, you'd never heard anything like it.
Yes, but when you got home, you also didn't have 100's of channels on the TV, thousands of generic songs on your Ipod, texting to those you just left at school, twittering, web surfing, Play Stationing, and on and on. Not sure anybody would even notice a new song as groundbreaking as a LZ song these days.


The good news, my kids have been playing Guitar Hero a lot lately, and they are playing Aerosmith, Fleetwood Mac, Pat Benetar, and more great stuff! (they are 11 through 14)
Old 14th November 2009
  #235
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DJamesGoody's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Yes, but when you got home, you also didn't have 100's of channels on the TV, thousands of generic songs on your Ipod, texting to those you just left at school, twittering, web surfing, Play Stationing, and on and on. Not sure anybody would even notice a new song as groundbreaking as a LZ song these days.
Totally true, and excellent point. But I still believe (deep inside) that we're near the end of genuinely groundbreaking musical discovery. I'm a cynic.
Old 14th November 2009
  #236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJGoody View Post
Totally true, and excellent point. But I still believe (deep inside) that we're near the end of genuinely groundbreaking musical discovery. I'm a cynic.
I think what's actually more the case is that most folks here have stopped accepting anything outside of those norms as musical, therefore, by definition, there can't be any more *musical* discovery, only noise. But clearly there's an entire world of things out there to do that haven't been explored. It's just that they are further away from the traditional blues and/or western classical based paradigms that almost all popular music has been based on for the last half century or more. So many people may admit it's new, but not really music.

I mean, many decades after Chuck Berry, we get rap, which was clearly a very different and original style that spawned a whole new world. Who would have seen that coming? The issue is just whether you consider it music or not. If not, then clearly there still hasn't been any big breakthrough in music in a good while.

Plenty of people out there are exploring those boundaries, but they may never be able to create a new revolution in music becasuse that would require a large number of people to accept it as a new form of music, and that may not be doable. If it's too far outside of the melodic and harmonic structures that have been around for actually thousands of years if you trace it back, it just doesn't seem likely that the masses of people will accept it.
Old 14th November 2009
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
You have to compare like for like - rock opera isn't popular at the moment - although I'd put Muse in a technical capacity as far greater players {if not vocals - Freddy is hard to beat!!} than any on Queen - yes even Brian May.
Side note...Muse strikes me as the current band most capable of delivering the rock opera goods. I agree that they stand up to the likes of Queen and other great bands on a musical and songwriting level.

Unfortunately I get a serious case of listening fatigue when listening to Muse. More so than most other rock bands. Their bombastic operatic material seems to suffer more than the average rock song from compression, limiting, distortion and other modern production techniques and artifacts. I wish that band would produce a 70's style production. I think the resulting clarity, depth, and preservation of dynamics would serve their style particularly well.
Old 14th November 2009
  #238
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I honestly believe that you could hook a DAW up to a console in 1972 and make just as good of a recording so long as you used the same performers, arrangers and decisive production procedure.
i disagree with this, although i must state that i agree with pretty much everywhere
else he has posted in all of the years coming to gearslutz.
i record things to 2" 16 track and pro-tools simultaneously
and there is a huge difference. tape just sounds much, much better.

i agree with everything else bob said in concept. the rooms, the bands, the level
of musicianship: they are primary

the sound of tape is huge - i lock the 2" machine to pro tools and feed 100% analog
signal of a vocal chain to a singer and they sing and perform in a different
way - it is softer and gentler and kinder to the ears - it inspires the singer - younger ones
run in the control room and ask what the **** is going on - it is a shock if you have been tracking to
pro tools for several months

i agree with walter sear that there are many things going on in digital that we don't understand
- they agitate and fatigue - tracking on pro tools is much more tiring
in my opinion


be well

- jack
Old 14th November 2009
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
...i record things to 2" 16 track and pro-tools simultaneously and there is a huge difference. tape just sounds much, much better.

- jack
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
Old 14th November 2009
  #240
can you post something recorded on PT and tape ?
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