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70's Snare
Old 15th May 2003
  #1
70's Snare

Anyone got any 'go to' snares they can point me towards.
I'm looking to recreate the fat, dry snare of 70's RnB or rock.
Some proviso's:
I'm probably most interested in vintage drums.
I've already got 2 x Ludwig Black Beauty's.
I'm thinking Slingerland Radio King might be the way to go.
On the other hand, I already own quite a few Noble & Cooley snares which I think were modelled on the Radio King sound.
So any tips.....
Slingerland, Leedy, Ludwig, Rogers?
Old 15th May 2003
  #2
Gear Addict
 

i'm sure every snare you listed has been on a 70's record with that sound. for that sound, i'd look more into dead rooms, duller, lower tuned heads, super close micing, etc.

-d. gauss
Old 15th May 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
bassmac's Avatar
 

Try this!

Old 15th May 2003
  #4
Quote:
Originally posted by d. gauss
i'm sure every snare you listed has been on a 70's record with that sound. for that sound, i'd look more into dead rooms, duller, lower tuned heads, super close micing, etc.

-d. gauss
Thanks, but I've been doing that. I'm really just looking for a tip off towards the archetypal snare.
After all most top studio drummers seem to carry a Black Beauty and a Radio King.
I just wondered what would be a good (vintage drum) choice for the phat sound.
Old 15th May 2003
  #5
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Chrisso, I bet you've also tried using the butt of the stick for a fatter backbeat, but if not...

Also, a 2 ply coated head like a powerstroke, tuned low can work.

uhhh.... snares

I'd look for a big marhcing snare with a lot of lugs and tune it down. The more lugs, the better, because the drumhead is much less likely to go completely flat by the end of a tune if there are more anchors holding it down.

I doubt there's going to be a specific make or model of drum that fits the bill perfectly. You might also forego the usual mic suspects and try a LD condenser if you haven't already.

Most importantly, the playing style will get that sound. Very consistent hits directly in the middle, for a lack of overtones would be the key. If I'm trying to cop a particular drummer's sound, I listen very closely to how he's doing it, and approximate. Usually works pretty well.

An MCI console with an MCI tape machine would be nice, too.


I know I've told this story before, but Phil Rudd (AC/DC) would put a new head on the snare and leave it completely flat. The lugs were only tightened enough to keep the rim on. That's a part of that big, bopping AC/DC snare sound.
Old 15th May 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
I've got a nice 61/2" Tama steel snare set up just for this sound and it seems to work. I use a Remo Genera Dry head and a really thick snare batter. I tune the snare batter real tight and leave the top head to be tuned according to the song. Also I line the inside of the shell with a layer of that really small clear plastic packing material...you know, the stuff with the little bubbles.Makes this snare really dead but with a lot of crack...
Old 16th May 2003
  #7
Thanks all for the interesting tips. I'll probably try most of them.
Drumwise I'm edging towards a (deeper) Radio King.
Old 16th May 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Chrisso...

I used to have a Rogers Dynasonic... it was pretty cool and funky and defintatel had that 70's thang.... i stupidly sold it.

Also try an Evans coated batter head with the double ply... its an instant FAT that cant be eq'd in.. even tho i still dial a fair bit of stuff in to help it fatten up.

Rogers are way cool and IMHO very overlooked as snares .. that is if u can find them.

I am searching for a TAMA brass bell snare. I ahve heard that there is one for rent in LA that has been used on nearly every 'BIG' record including and it has a nick name 'Terminator'... Its the snare tone of heaps of cool records i definately know it was the 'Nevermind' and 'Amorica' snare on thos records in some tracks...

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 16th May 2003
  #9
Good on ya mate!
A producer friend of mine has a bronze Ludwig
6 1/2".
They are cheap, especially second hand.
It sounds great. Has a ring which is impossible to get rid of, however it sounds perfect when surrounded by loud guitars. You need something with a bit of character in those situations.
Old 16th May 2003
  #10
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Re: 70's Snare

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
Anyone got any 'go to' snares they can point me towards.
I'm looking to recreate the fat, dry snare of 70's RnB or rock.
Some proviso's:
I'm probably most interested in vintage drums.
I've already got 2 x Ludwig Black Beauty's.
Ludwig Black Beautys or Gretchs are pretty much the ones of choice that we all used. .Just make sure they haven't been abused and are still round!

Remo Ambassador heads damped with a wallet or a circle of head material placed on the batter head is really all it takes besides a drummer with the right touch. Make sure there is a little damping on the toms too so they don't ring sympathetically with the snare.
Old 16th May 2003
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Snare or biscuit tin...

Chrisso

I know you've asked about the dry 70's snare sound but without hijacking your thread and as a request for your next drum CD I'd like to know if its possible to recreate the earlier 70's 'biscuit tin' snare sound found on many great funk tracks. I suppose the best example would be the 1st 3 albums by The Meters (1969-1970).

It drives me nuts - the snare sure rings out.. almost as metallic as the cymbals... sounds like a ton of compression too?

(No I haven't posted those CD-R's yet....sorry!)

Burt
Old 16th May 2003
  #12
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut

I am searching for a TAMA brass bell snare. I ahve heard that there is one for rent in LA that has been used on nearly every 'BIG' record including and it has a nick name 'Terminator'... Its the snare tone of heaps of cool records i definately know it was the 'Nevermind' and 'Amorica' snare on thos records in some tracks...
IIRC, the Tama brass bell snares go for @ $2,000!! (Not to be confused with their regular brass snares.) It'd be fun to have one, though I'd expect them to be a little one dimensional.
Old 16th May 2003
  #13
Gear Nut
 
drummerman15's Avatar
 

I have a 6.5 Radio King from the 40's. I absolutely love it and it gives you a great sound no matter how you tune it/muffle it. It really has a nice woody/fat sound. To get that sound, I use Evans Genera dry heads. they have some vents in the head and a little muffle ring on the inside. If you want it bright and producing super ring and overtone - Remo coated diplomat. I also use a slingerland chrome over brass from the 60's that has a super motown-ish sound. Also, a Ludwig 10x14. (I think it might have been a converted tom). Put a 2 ply head on one of those and you will definitely get that AC/DC snare sound. But you must mic the snare side as well. For the go-to snare: the Radio King, no doubt. In fact, I am going to get another in a few weeks...this time the 5.5.
Old 17th May 2003
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Re: Re: 70's Snare

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Ludwig Black Beautys or Gretchs are pretty much the ones of choice that we all used. .Just make sure they haven't been abused and are still round!

Remo Ambassador heads damped with a wallet or a circle of head material placed on the batter head is really all it takes besides a drummer with the right touch. Make sure there is a little damping on the toms too so they don't ring sympathetically with the snare.
Right on.....the circle of a cut up head always did the trick for me. We used to keep a few around that were cut at different sizes. Also, a CS batter head puts a little more fundamental tone in the snare. (That's the Ambassador with a dot on the underside) As far as tuning goes, turn off the snares (while you tune) and tune the snare to an E or lower for that fat sound. C# is about as low as it goes. For something more like the early Heart records, tune to a G or so.

Also, try to not use the wide snares.... I find that they just choke bottom head too much, and kill the sustain.
Old 17th May 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

IIRC, the Tama brass bell snares go for @ $2,000!! (Not to be confused with their regular brass snares.) It'd be fun to have one, though I'd expect them to be a little one dimensional.

It is a one dimensional tone.. but fuck its an ace one!!!

Where have u seen them for that sort of ?

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 17th May 2003
  #16
A friend has just suggested the Yamaha Elvin Jones Signature Snare.
It looks pretty nice, wood hoops, cheap IMO.
Old 17th May 2003
  #17
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

There are tons of snare stories. even re-amp stories that are interesting, or taping tomm toms together and recording through garden hoses etc.... If you already have a bunch of nice snares, try an 8" wood shell for the sound you're looking for, SM57 top and bottom, mics. facing each other as much as possible ( if the top mic is angled across the top skin use the exact opposite angle for the bottom mic., keep the bottom mic. "away" from the snares) a tightly strung snare with the heads tuned as near as possible to the same pitch. The wallet idea is a good one, I remember that Bernard Purdie's was holding his pay, so a happy drummer may be more important. I used to put a slice of sponge rubber ball to hold up a cowbell that I liked to have close by (timbale style, hembra), geat dynamic mute, the more you hit it the less it muted. these days I just hit the thing with my hand if I want that sound. The tin biscuit sound is a Remo piccolo and no other sound is quite like that original. Happy Hunting.
Old 17th May 2003
  #18
Surely Remo have only been making drums for about 15 years. I seem to remember their introduction and thinking how poor they sounded.
Old 17th May 2003
  #19
Anyone recorded, own or heard a Dunnett?
Old 18th May 2003
  #20
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
IIRC, the Tama brass bell snares go for @ $2,000!! (Not to be confused with their regular brass snares.) It'd be fun to have one, though I'd expect them to be a little one dimensional.

It is a one dimensional tone.. but fuck its an ace one!!!

Where have u seen them for that sort of ?

PEACE
Wiggy
Several years ago, I called Drum World (local drum shop) and asked about pricing on the brass bell Tama.
Old 18th May 2003
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
Anyone recorded, own or heard a Dunnett?
Yup. Played and recorded a Ti. Quite cool. Damn expensive too. While it's a great drum I wouldn't invest in it. Yes, I used the word invest. I've paid less then $200, maybe even $150 for each of my snares and I've got some great stuff. Today I cut 5 songs and the drummer brought a nice DW, we ended up using a different snare on each song and his DW only got used once. I really don't see the point of snare drums that cost over $400 unless they're something really custom. Maybe a whacky finish on a stave shell with wood hoops or whatever. Personally I'd rather own 10 $200 snares then 2 $1000 drums. YMMV.
Old 18th May 2003
  #22
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Yup. Played and recorded a Ti. Quite cool. Damn expensive too. While it's a great drum I wouldn't invest in it.Personally I'd rather own 10 $200 snares then 2 $1000 drums.
Jay,
Thanks for your advice. Trouble is I already own like 20 snares. The harsh reality is that the one's that usually get picked by recording engineers (in blind tastings) are the $1,000+ ones.
I usually start with my 1924 Black Beauty and as the album session proceeds I sling up various other drums. You can guarantee that every other track the engineer will say "what was that snare you used on the first song? Let's try that again".
I guess it would be useful to own a few more Ludwig and Gretsch. Like you say, especially the $200 ones.
I haven't been plugged into the drumming world for 10 years so I was wondering if anything new had come along.
On the Dunnett's, I see more people commenting on the look rather than the sound.
Old 18th May 2003
  #23
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I don't know, maybe I've just been lucky with my snares. I got my Rogpie for $150 shipped. It's an early '70's Rogers 6x14" with the edges recut and the whole drum refinished in plum purple by Bill Detamore of PorkPie. Hence, I call it Rogpie. I got my Pearl maple free-floater in trade for letting my Adats out to a drummer friend for two weeks. The deals are out there. Plus, I've had guys come in with OCDP (Overpriced Crappy Drums & Percussion) snares and ended up using the $100 Ludwig that has a slightly out of round shell. Go figure. When stuff like that keeps happening it's just more proof that I don't need to get the $1000 snares.
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