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ANGEL DUST--a classic!! any info?
Old 25th September 2005
  #31
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macr0w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiz1der
Wait, so this isn't about Mr. Gil Scott-Heron's "Angel Dust"???


damn......
Gil is the man. I have a good handfull of his records(vinyl). I have been listening to both of those recordings forever. Angel Dust still stands as my favorite "metal" album. Is that "metal"? I don't know.?
Old 25th September 2005
  #32
Here for the gear
 

ANGEL ****ING DUST

Hello All,

I'm new to this sort of thing so bear with me... plus I was just informed about this chat about "Angel Dust" by my friend Matt and, lo and behold, I only have a bit of time to write. Drag.

First off, thanks to all of you for saying such kind words about the work FNM and I did together on "Angel Dust". I appreciate the props. I don't know if any of you read Kerrang but about 2 years ago they rated the "Most Influential Albmus Of All Time" and to my surprise they named "Angel Dust" as the #1 album. Pretty ****ing cool.

To answer some of your questions, Jim Martin did not like the direction of AD and referred to it as "gay disco music" and that, coupled with his father dying just prior to making the record, the big booted fella who was supposed to bring the 6 string sludge to the table was unable. Bill Gould, the bass player, and I did many demos at his home (based upon live studio recordings of the primary players, Bordin on drums, Bottum on keys, and Gould on bass) and he and I worked out many of the guitar parts. I can't remember exactly but I believe that Bill played on about 60-70% of the guitars. The band were really at odds at this point. Patton, Gould, Bottum, and Bordin and I would track the stuff and then they would leave. Martin would come in after they had left and play guitar. The following day the band would come in to listen to what Jim had recorded and were furious! This lead to many, many heated phone conversations between the band (Bill especially) and Jim Martinl.

The basic tracking was done with almost NO COMPRESSION except about 2dB on the snare drum and bass guitar. Vocals were recorded with about the same amount. This was a conscious decision on my part because when "The Real Thing" was being mastered I almost cried because it sounded so ****ty on my home stereo. Thankfully, though, it sounded ****ing amazing on MTV and radio. Whew! So, as a direct response to the thin, hyper compressed sound of TRT I went in the exact, total opposite direction. I did the recording with almost no compression and then in mastering is when I added the squish so that the entire record was compressed together instead of individual instruments being compressed.

The recording process was very, very difficult because Jim Martin didn't like the direction and was reeling from his father's death and this was also the time that Roddy was coming out of the closet (which really ****ed with Jim Martin). We were working at Coast and to say that the support at that studio was lame is an understatement. I will say that Gibbs Chapman, our assistant, was incredible during the 2" editing portion of the record. He and I were in separate rooms and were chopping the basic tracks together. However, once that was done I had to constantly hunt him down for assistance. Anyway, the fact that I was the producer, engineer, assistant enginer, and phone answerer (the studio had people call us directly on a phone line in the studio), and the fact that the band was at odds with eachother, made for a very difficult album to make. I took 3 months off after the record and was deciding if Iwanted to continue. ha ha. What a ****ing pussy I was back then.

By the way, while making AD someone broke the antenna off of my car and I had no functioning radio in the car until I gave it away a few months ago. Kind of ridiculous for a music producer to not have a working radio in his car. Lame. ha ha

Anyway, I have to go. Now that I'm hip to this forum I can check in, I guess. If you have any other questions post them and I'll see if I can answer them.

Once again, THANK YOU very much for your kind words and enthusiasm for the work that Faith No More and I did together. It is pretty cool to still have people talking about that record as we are all proud of the work that we did.

By the way, I have some out takes from that record that I'll have to release to the world sometime soon.

Matt Wallace
Old 25th September 2005
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt wallace
Hello All,

I'm new to this sort of thing so bear with me... plus I was just informed about this chat about "Angel Dust" by my friend Matt and, lo and behold, I only have a bit of time to write. Drag.

First off, thanks to all of you for saying such kind words about the work FNM and I did together on "Angel Dust". I appreciate the props. I don't know if any of you read Kerrang but about 2 years ago they rated the "Most Influential Albmus Of All Time" and to my surprise they named "Angel Dust" as the #1 album. Pretty ****ing cool.

To answer some of your questions, Jim Martin did not like the direction of AD and referred to it as "gay disco music" and that, coupled with his father dying just prior to making the record, the big booted fella who was supposed to bring the 6 string sludge to the table was unable. Bill Gould, the bass player, and I did many demos at his home (based upon live studio recordings of the primary players, Bordin on drums, Bottum on keys, and Gould on bass) and he and I worked out many of the guitar parts. I can't remember exactly but I believe that Bill played on about 60-70% of the guitars. The band were really at odds at this point. Patton, Gould, Bottum, and Bordin and I would track the stuff and then they would leave. Martin would come in after they had left and play guitar. The following day the band would come in to listen to what Jim had recorded and were furious! This lead to many, many heated phone conversations between the band (Bill especially) and Jim Martinl.

The basic tracking was done with almost NO COMPRESSION except about 2dB on the snare drum and bass guitar. Vocals were recorded with about the same amount. This was a conscious decision on my part because when "The Real Thing" was being mastered I almost cried because it sounded so ****ty on my home stereo. Thankfully, though, it sounded ****ing amazing on MTV and radio. Whew! So, as a direct response to the thin, hyper compressed sound of TRT I went in the exact, total opposite direction. I did the recording with almost no compression and then in mastering is when I added the squish so that the entire record was compressed together instead of individual instruments being compressed.

The recording process was very, very difficult because Jim Martin didn't like the direction and was reeling from his father's death and this was also the time that Roddy was coming out of the closet (which really ****ed with Jim Martin). We were working at Coast and to say that the support at that studio was lame is an understatement. I will say that Gibbs Chapman, our assistant, was incredible during the 2" editing portion of the record. He and I were in separate rooms and were chopping the basic tracks together. However, once that was done I had to constantly hunt him down for assistance. Anyway, the fact that I was the producer, engineer, assistant enginer, and phone answerer (the studio had people call us directly on a phone line in the studio), and the fact that the band was at odds with eachother, made for a very difficult album to make. I took 3 months off after the record and was deciding if Iwanted to continue. ha ha. What a ****ing pussy I was back then.

By the way, while making AD someone broke the antenna off of my car and I had no functioning radio in the car until I gave it away a few months ago. Kind of ridiculous for a music producer to not have a working radio in his car. Lame. ha ha

Anyway, I have to go. Now that I'm hip to this forum I can check in, I guess. If you have any other questions post them and I'll see if I can answer them.

Once again, THANK YOU very much for your kind words and enthusiasm for the work that Faith No More and I did together. It is pretty cool to still have people talking about that record as we are all proud of the work that we did.

By the way, I have some out takes from that record that I'll have to release to the world sometime soon.

Matt Wallace
straight from the yadda etc

great post! thanks for your great work. obviously you did a lot more than "just" engineer. amazing that such strong work (in my opinion FNMs best work) could happen in such adverse circumstances. obviously the rhythm section up approach helped but still....
Old 25th September 2005
  #34
Great post Matt, good to have you around here.
To me, Angel Dust is the best FNM album and one the most important Rock Albums of all time!
Congrats!
Old 25th September 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
 

The number of bands influenced by AD is ridiculous.
I still have young bands bring it in as an example of a record they love.
It has so many musical styles all mixed up on it.
That's what made it stand out for me.
Too bad you can't get points from bands that ripped a small chunk from that one.

I always wondered if working with JJP between those two FNM records influenced anything about the way you approached Angel Dust.

The real reason Wallace used no compressors on AD??
They were all broken and crackling just like the Neve channels at Coast. haha funny huh?

Thanks for the great info.
Very cool of you to take the time to post.

-Matt
Old 25th September 2005
  #36
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jtienhaara's Avatar
 

Holy ****! Great post Mr. Wallace (sorry I'm too in awe to call you "Matt"...). And congrats on making such a powerful record. I didn't read the article, but i do think Kerrang made an unconvential but very cool choice for "Most Influential Album".

Thanks for luring Mr. Wallace in here, too, Winey -- very cool! I think you should have your own forum here to talk about all the San Fran bands and producers you've dealt with (Bungle, Primus, who else?)

This thread rocks eligit!
Old 26th September 2005
  #37
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No Problem.
I'm happy I could get him over here.
As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of his as well.
Old 26th September 2005
  #38
Here for the gear
 

Thanks

Hey there guys, I'm currently in the studio so have only had a moment to speed read through your kind comments. Many, many thanks for the 'props'. Thanks, Winey, for dragging my tired, old, uncool booty into this chat group or whatever it is called. Is this a 'blog'? Shows you how much I know.

I'll respond to you guys when I get a chance but am honored that you hold my work in high esteem. AND, big ups to Winey who is really, really talented in so many ways. I rave to people about you all the time because there is really nothing musically or production/engineering wise that you cannot do. Honestly. If I had 1/3 of your talent I'd be a happy clam.

I forgot to say what I believe to be my important two quotes:

"It's WHAT your record that is more important than HOW you record".

and

"Timing and tuning are over-rated".

Matt Wallace
Old 26th September 2005
  #39
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jtienhaara's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt wallace
I forgot to say what I believe to be my important two quotes:

"It's WHAT your record that is more important than HOW you record".

and

"Timing and tuning are over-rated".


Out of curiosity Matt, did you use a click for The Real Thing and Angel Dust?

Do you remember what mics you used for Angel Dust? (I ask in spite of your "WHAT not HOW" maxim! heh) Was the bass DIed? Keys direct or mic'ed? Were the drums close-mic'ed?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks Mr. Wallace!


Also has anyone else noticed that Patton's voice became more "in tune" for California than, say, FNM's Album of the Year? I sorta suspect he discovered AutoTune around the time Bungle did California. But maybe he just trained and rehearsed more... Anyone have any insight?

(Or am I just imagining the "better tuned voice"?)
Old 27th September 2005
  #40
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macr0w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Also has anyone else noticed that Patton's voice became more "in tune" for California than, say, FNM's Album of the Year? I sorta suspect he discovered AutoTune around the time Bungle did California. But maybe he just trained and rehearsed more... Anyone have any insight?

(Or am I just imagining the "better tuned voice"?)
I am going to say Mike Patton has the best rock voice of the 1990's. Very versatile. JMO
Old 27th September 2005
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 

Always dug FNM.

...and everytime I hear that Marilyn Manson song and also that Gwen Stefani's Holla Back Girl.... I think that FNM should be getting points (Be Aggressive)

Props to Mr. Wallace for a huge chunk of the sound of my youth.
Old 27th September 2005
  #42
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Matt

Angle Dust is a fantastic album, thanks for dropping in & giving some info on the production process

Adam
Old 27th September 2005
  #43
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http://www.mcdman.com/wallace.html

Some Matt Wallace producer/engineer/mixer credits.
Old 27th September 2005
  #44
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papawhitehead's Avatar
A friend of mine misheard the lyric for "Holla Back Girl" as "I ain't no Harlem Black Girl" He was convinced that Gwen was a racist.
Sorry to hi-jack the thread
....as you were.
Old 28th September 2005
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Angel Dust

Hey gang,

To answer some questions about FNM's "Angel Dust"...

Both "The Real Thing" and "Angel Dust" were cut to a click. For the song "Epic" there are 28 razor blade edits done on that song to ensure that the drums kept the pulse. "Falling To Pieces" had about 24 razor blade edits, and oddly enough, these edits are quite audible if you go back and listen. I don't know how this happened as I did the edits exactly the same, with the same editing block, etc as other songs, but FTP ended up with noticable edits. Lots and lots of 2", razor blade edits on "Angel Dust" to keep the drums relatively tight with the click.

As to microphones, that was a while ago but I'm prety sure that there was an SM57 on the snare. A D12E or D20 on the kick with a U47 FET on the beater side (for Angel Dust), either 414's or 421's on the toms, some fancy assed Neumann or AKG mics for over heads (set up in a triangulated way-for AD album only-wherein a large diaphragm mic was positioned directly above the snare and another similar mic was placed at the far edge of the floor tom aiming towards the snare. both mics were measured and set to be at the exact same distance from the snare. on the monitor section these mics were panned opposite of eachother. i believe that this is an approach discovered or made popular during the Zepplin era), etc.

Anyway, have to go now. Chat with you all later.

Once again, thank you for your interest in the work that FNM and I did many years ago. I am thrilled that we did something that has, to this point, stood the test of time.

Many thanks,

Matt

p.s. I just found a bunch of DAT tapes with FNM stuff on them, outtakes, etc. Found the source material for the cheerleaders on "Be Aggressive". These gals were from the school where Patton's dad taught. Fun to listen to some of those tapes.
Old 28th September 2005
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Thank You much Matt for The AD LP

"By the way, I have some out takes from that record that I'll have to release to the world sometime soon.

Matt Wallace

p.s. I just found a bunch of DAT tapes with FNM stuff on them, outtakes, etc.
Found the source material for the cheerleaders on "Be Aggressive".
These gals were from the school where Patton's dad taught. Fun to listen to some of those tapes."


This would be by far the wet dream that came true if you would do that for us!!!

You have my vote
Old 29th September 2005
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Ok so I just have to post! I got into FNM a few years ago, so pretty late in the game. I got their best of cd one day when I couldn't get Epic out of my head. I mean I literally got it as sort of a nostalgic joke, and I then started thinking (after a few listens) wait a minute these guys are great! So long story short I got the AD album, and I couldn't get over how good some of the songs were. I don't know how much you (matt) had to do with the arrangements but I'm constantly referencing that album for structure ideas. I remember taking it home and listening to Land of Sunshine over and over again, just being completely blown away by its goodness. Ended up staying up most of the night writing and recording in fact! I can't imagine what it would have been like to track that, and actually be involved ... Did you ever stop in the middle of it all and just think im helping to create some really amazing work here? or was that all soft of lost in the bickering?

Regardless, thanks for that! and thanks for taking the time to post, its very appreciated
Old 29th September 2005
  #48
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtienhaara
Holy ****!
Ha! That's exactly what I thought when I saw his reply too!

Thanks for dropping in and sharing this "Mr Wallace." I still listen to Angel Dust quite a bit. It's such an awesome album. You've dragged this long-time lurker out from the dark! Hopefully you can stick around!
Old 29th September 2005
  #49
Gear Nut
 

GO, FIGHT, WIN!!!
Old 29th September 2005
  #50
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brendondp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt wallace
Once again, thank you for your interest in the work that FNM and I did many years ago. I am thrilled that we did something that has, to this point, stood the test of time.

Many thanks,

Matt
Cheers to you, Matt. Welcome to 'slutz. Hope to hear more from you as you're able or so inclined. Really appreciated all you've shared so far.

Cheers,

bdp
Old 29th September 2005
  #51
Gear Nut
 

Jim Martin always struck me as a "traditional metal guy" who somehow ended up in a progerssive band. He was the last one in the band who still looked the part.

Listening to AD right now ...Great headphones album if you've never tried it. Lots of stuff going on thats tough to notice.

I think it's funny how so many bands "classic" albums dont contain any real "hits" I think everyone here will agree that AD was much better than The Real Thing. I listen to Angel Dust all the time, but I never break out any of thier other records even though I still own them all.
Old 12th July 2010
  #52
Here for the gear
 

thanks so much for posting Matt!

I read somewhere about "Angel Dust" that all the reverb was natrual

did Billy use an Aria bass on every track?

was there any additional layering or overdubs of bass, drums, guitar or keyboards?

I often keep hearing different things in the songs depending on what I play it this CD on. theres something very deep about it too

the end of "Midlife Crisis" seems to sound more uplifting and happy/major as it fades out

What ever became of the seagull song? and can you give us some idea of what the left over songs are like of TRT and AD?

thanks

Mike
Old 12th July 2010
  #53
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Although you're replying to a 5 year old thread, thanks for digging it up.

Threads like these are what make Gearslutz #1.
Old 12th July 2010
  #54
Gear Addict
 
ORGANIK's Avatar
 

wow!

i just saw this thread ! awesome!!!!!
Just saw FNM at brooklyn waterfront. They were great !! Love the band, LOve angel dust and king for a day. both great sounding records. Angel dust being my favorite.

Love the fatback ass snare sound on the record.

Id love to know the vocal chain used?
The harmonies were mixed so well 2.
Old 12th July 2010
  #56
Old 12th July 2010
  #58
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maxdamien's Avatar
Angel Dust

I was fortunate to hang out in the mix studio one day "Scream" in Studio City. David Bryson (Counting Crows Guitarist)was the Co-Mix engineer on the record. He also worked with John Zorn and Mr. Bungle. He was the Engineer as well for Bungle's first demo tape recorded at Dancing Dog Studio in Emeryville, CA.
Angel Dust was mixed on the SSL there, and there was a wall of outboard working. I remember watching the ducking of the snare in the kick mic with an Expressor. Dave told me they took about a day to mix each song. Started in the afternoon and left a mix to finish up that night did tweaks the next morning.
side note, I also remember Matt Wallace and Dave Bryson recording basics at Toast in SF. Lots of mics on the kit, but the sound was huge out of the gate. Also saw Bass being tracked with a delay on the DI with a Phase scope to get the DI and Mic in time.

Odd memories to hold on to.
Old 12th July 2010
  #59
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Great sounding records and fantastic music!
Old 12th July 2010
  #60
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CrankyRayHanky's Avatar
 

Angel Dust was great on release and still has a rotation in my car disc player
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