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c12a - c12
Old 16th September 2005
  #1
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malekmusic's Avatar
c12a - c12

hey guys,

i would love to have an original akg c12, but i have never seen one and i guess it would be much to expensive.

sometimes i see some old akg c12a for like 2k.

i wonder if they sound simular ? i think both have the ck12 capsule, but i am not too sure.

can someone give me an advise ?
Old 16th September 2005
  #2
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
I can't give you any advice [other than saying that a good condition C-12a can often be one of the best mics for an application... other than that, you're on your own]... but can kinda outline some of the differences for you.

An AKG C-12 is tube mic that is about and inch in diameter and about 10 inches long [mulitply inches by 2.54 to get centimeters]... a C-12a is also a tube mic... but it looks more like a current C 414 xxx-xxx than an old C-12.

Yes, they have the same capsule [as long as the C-12a was NEVER returned to AKG for "service"... if it was, AKG routinely stole the original CK-12 capsules while charging unsuspecting suckers for their "new and improved" capsule that sounds like complete ass]. The amplifiers are totally different, and the grill screen is totally different. The C-12a is based around a "NuVistor" which was one of the first 'sub-minuature' type tubes that came in a groovy little metal can and didn't take up a whole lot of space [but did throw some heat]... the original C-12 uses a 6072 dual triode... which is quite different.

A C-12a in good to great condition can be a complete thing of beauty... a C-12a that has seen piss poor maintenance over the years can be easily outperformed by a modern C 414xxx-xxx

Old 16th September 2005
  #3
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malekmusic's Avatar
thank you fletcher, this was very informatic

can u kindly answer these questions ?

last week i got the 3daudio cd with the miccomparison and i fell in love with the elam 251 and the akg c12. these mics were awsome and didnt need eqing in my ears, that was what i was loving.

the sounedelux elux 251 sounded very nice to me, too. but i was a little bit harsh, still very beautiful though and i believe it would sit in the mix pretty good without eqing neither.

i have read a post of you, where you wrote that the elux 250 even sounds closer to the elam 251 than the elux 251 does. so can i assume the diffrence between the elux 250 and elux 251 is just that the elux 250 doesnt have the harshness of the elux 251 ? does is sound brightly and shiny too like the c12 and elam251 ? i would love to have a mic which doesnt need that much eqing like my old u87 and at4060 (which is nice too).
Old 16th September 2005
  #4
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by malekmusic
thank you fletcher, this was very informatic
My pleasure

Quote:
can u kindly answer these questions ?
No, because they're unanswerable... but I will point out why they're unanswerable...

Quote:
last week i got the 3daudio cd with the miccomparison and i fell in love with the elam 251 and the akg c12. these mics were awsome and didnt need eqing in my ears, that was what i was loving.
I am quite sure they didn't require any "EQ'ing" to your ears... however, the 3D Audio CD's I've heard have all acapella vocals... which means you have no idea of:

1) How either of these mics will work with any other singer. They make work great with another singer, they may not work well at all with another singer.

2) How the vocal track you're talking about recording will work within the context of the arrangement of a song. Yeah... they sound great [with that particular singer] in solo... but what if you have a nice bright acoustic guitar in the balance? Will the 'presence area' of that microphone work and play well with the acoustic guitar track? I know I sure as hell could never determine that without hearing the song, if you can... well then I defer to your special abilites I do not possess.

Quote:
he sounedelux elux 251 sounded very nice to me, too. but i was a little bit harsh, still very beautiful though and i believe it would sit in the mix pretty good without eqing neither.
Again, you're into mind reading/crystal ball country. An Elux 251 is a gorgeous sounding microphone... but so is a U-99... and for that matter, two of the absolute best vocals I have ever recorded were done with a handheld Shure SM-57... which takes us back to the outdated thought that it's the performance, way more than the capture of the performance that makes the record dance... [ahhh ****... there go mic sales for the rest of the month]...

Quote:
i have read a post of you, where you wrote that the elux 250 even sounds closer to the elam 251 than the elux 251 does. so can i assume the diffrence between the elux 250 and elux 251 is just that the elux 250 doesnt have the harshness of the elux 251 ?
First, I have never written anywhere that I thought the E-250 sounded closer to an ELA M 251 [and if I did must have been drunk or was having an exceptionally stupid day so ignore the comment... which I don't believe I ever wrote]... so, no, you can't assume that difference at all.

I find the top on the E-250 to be smoother than the top on the Elux-251... but I have found the top on the E-49 far sweeter than the top on either of the "Elux" mics... which says nothing unless put in context with your music in your studio with a specific arrangement on a specific artist.

Quote:
does is sound brightly and shiny too like the c12 and elam251 ? i would love to have a mic which doesnt need that much eqing like my old u87 and at4060 (which is nice too).
What you hear in your world will be what you're going to hear in your world... what I hear in my world is going to be totally different... EQ, like microphones, is a tool... this tool can be used for good, or it can be used for evil... so, having no idea of what you're doing, what you would like to hear as an end result, having less than no idea what the artists with whom you work are hoping for as an end result... I'd be loathe to render an opinion as to the fitness for any tool in your specific applications... what I could suggest is that you call your local Soundelux dealer and give an Elux 251 and an E-250 a shot and make an educated decision.

Best of luck with the search... sorry I couldn't tell you which mic you'd like best [well I could have, but I'd be an asshole for trying and there are tons of other people on this site who are more than happy to play that role and tell you what you're going to like... so I didn't want to step on their toes].

Peace.
Old 17th September 2005
  #5
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Jetblack's Avatar
 

Since we are on the topic, does the AKG "The Tube" sound closer to the C12VR or to an original C12? I ask becasue I have used a "The Tube" but never a C12 VR, C12 A or an original C12. What do people think of the AKG "The Tube" mic? It definitly doesn't sound like a 414 to my ears.
Old 17th September 2005
  #6
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetblack
Since we are on the topic, does the AKG "The Tube" sound closer to the C12VR or to an original C12? I ask becasue I have used a "The Tube" but never a C12 VR, C12 A or an original C12. What do people think of the AKG "The Tube" mic? It definitly doesn't sound like a 414 to my ears.
I've owned "The Tube" and a c12A. I currently own a C12, a C24 and the original (with the c12A type body/stand mount) C412 and C414. I've used the C12VR and other variations of the C414.
A C12 or C24 in excellent condition are vastly superior to any of the others mentioned. The C12A was killer on floor tom and various percusion but was very difficult to use on vocals. The original C412 and C414 are smooth general purpose mics that are really great for strings and acoustic instruments. The C12VR is supposed to be a "Vintage re-issue" but doesn't sound nearly as good as any of the real vintage AKG's.
"The Tube" sucks about as bad as any mic I've ever used or had the misfortune to own. And it's ugly too.
Old 17th September 2005
  #7
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malekmusic's Avatar
fletcher i perhaps i didnt understand that correctly https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...light=elux+250

but thank you anyways, with your comments ive calmed down a little bit
Old 17th September 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Just to throw you off track a bit more the current version of the ELUX251 uses a different output xfmr than the version used for the 3d cd.
Not quite as bright now.
regards,
D.Bock
Soundelux Microphones
Old 18th September 2005
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton
The C12A was killer on floor tom and various percusion but was very difficult to use on vocals.
C12As are extremely forgiving mics and incredibly under used. I'd call them second choice mics, important to have around when other things don't work. C37As are similar in this respect. When a singer needs assistance with "body" or has a very aggressive mid-range, a C12A is what I'd go to first. It's a shame it and the C37As only get utility use on toms.

Steven
Old 20th September 2005
  #10
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I have a pair AKG C12A for sale.


Price...............3800 Euro.
Old 24th December 2018
  #11
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What tube mics besides the c12 vr have the same plate resistance as the 6072?
Old 26th December 2018
  #12
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haysonics's Avatar
 

To give you some clarification, "plate resistance" is referring to the tube. All brands of 6072 tubes have the same plate resistance.

If you are wanting a C12 style mic with a similar interaction between a 6072 tube and T14 transformer as an original AKG C12 then you want a mic that has a plate follower circuit rather than a cathode follower circuit. So you'd want to ignore C12 style mics from Avantone, Fame, Advanced Audio, etc as they are upgraded versions of the Apex 460 mic that has a cathode follower circuit. Hope that helps.

But having said that, the capsule is responsible for 80% of the sound in a mic. A hand made CK12 type capsule from Eric Heiserman, Tim Campbell, Ben Sneezby, etc, will get you very close to the sound of a AKG C12. Those capsules are expensive but that is because they are made up of 50 parts like the original AKG CK12 capsule. The majority of cheap capsules are copies of the Peluso-Ruvalds CEK12 which sounds very bright. The AKG CK12 was bright but didn't sound bright. It's hard to explain/understand if you haven't heard a CK12 capsule. Even the uber expensive AKG C12VR does not have a CK12 type capsule (it has the same capsule as the AKG C414 TLII )
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