Hi

Great forum by the way.....

I am considering upgrading my Lexicon MPX-1,i find its a bit muddy on vocals with long reverb tails....

Anyone own or used the pcm 91 or pcm 70,as i am considering these two units as replacement....

I know the pcm 70 is an older unit but i have read on the web that its a great unit for vocals...

It will be used mainly for vocals and keyboards if that helps...

Anyway please help if you can..

Cheers Paul (Impact Studios)

They both are (2) different extremes. Old Lexicon vs. new.

1) Do you need digital ins/outs? Than your only option is the PCM91.

2)Do you need true stereo or dual input reverbs? Than your only option is the PCM91.

The PCM70 is mostly famous for its Tiled Room(which has been overused to death).It is really a multi effect box with mono in/stereo out. The reverbs actually work better in the mix in mono.

At times the PCM91 can come across as a little"thin"(you have to really get into it and program it to make it sound full).

It has some extra effects with it also.

If I could only have one I would probably choose the PCM91.

But luckily i can have a whole bunch effect processors(the PCM 91 is in my rack byt he way).heh

Long live Gearslutz.

I highly suggest the PCM70. The "spaitializer" setting on the 91 is cool, but there's WAY too many presets that suck for the price of the unit and take forever to tweek to get a good sound out of. Esspecially ones labeled like programs in the 70 that don't sound as good. The Tiled Room is like, the only verb I think I've ever really liked on kick drum (which is rare that I add verb to a kick anyway). I'd much rather have one really great reverb in a box than a hundred that all kinda sound crappy.

The 70 DOES have more grit. That is to say, if you aren't a fan of digital reverb, you probably won't like the 70. I don't mind the sound of digital verb, actually I like it most of the time, so it's a staple on my selection of vocal verbs.

i've always been able to get something i'm happy with out of our pcm91. its true that there are many settings you'll never use, but it is pretty easy to re-program once you get the hang of moving around in it. in fact, i find it to be very flexible if you're comfortable reprogramming the thing... depending on the type of vocals reverbs you're looking for, i would say it should do just fine.

i have not used a 70 so i can't speak to that...

-a-

pcm 70 all the way....

The 91 gets lost in the mix too easily, and it also gets a bit phasy sounding imho. The only use I really like it for was for acoustic instruments. For some reason it seem to work out really nice in that application. On the other hand the pcm 70 really has alot of character that's easy to shape and fit into a mix.

Funny but here's another vote for the PCM 70. I can't imagine mixing drums without it anymore. But if you ask me about my main reverb I can't say which one.

I only used the PCM 91 in live rigs and wasn't that impressed. But I think it's still a solid unit.

Jo

Hi

Thanks for all your replies,basically the reverb im after is for use on vocals mainly.....
And i need a reverb thats not muddy when long decays are used.....

Keep your comments coming....

And thanks for all your help so far....

All the best Paul (Impact Studios)

I think everybody is kinda sayin the same thing.

If you want a great vocal reverb look elsewhere.

That's not completely fair.

Hey its just an opinion.

I'd take the PCM70.


Brian T

Brian would you take a PCM 70 as a vocal reverb? I know I wouldn't.

Jo

maybe the tc stuff? a m3000 might be in the price range and seem clearer where the lex stuff seems lusher - if you'll excuse the rough description.

i like the 70 plenty, and some folks i've run into swear by them. i still think the 91 is a bit more versatile, but it takes some tweaking to get it happening. but jeez, all these fx boxes at least take some tweaking so i dont' think that's a dealbreaker.

i thought the eventide eclipse had a pretty clean sound. it doesnt' have the programming flexibility of it's much more expensive big brothers, but it may be an option in your price range. (similar to that of a 91 in cost) or even the new kurweil piece that people are going batty over. just a thought.

What kinda music are you trying to mix?

Celine Dion type? Sarah Mclachlan type? Bryan Ferry? Is it female or a male vocalist?

This would help to point you in the right direction.

Ya know, for the price of a new PCM 91 you could get a real plate...

I guess that depends. I think which ROM set you have installed in a PCM 70 is a big deal, and the best PCM70s are setup with the best of the algos from the different ROM revs, using a combo of a ROM and user memory.

But he did say vocals and keys. IMO, the PCM70 rocks for keys. For instance, put Concert Wave on an acoustic piano, real or sampled, and you have instant "Best of Peter Gabriel". "Moby R Us". Concert Wave is the best chorused verb I've ever used, and the applications for it are many, depending on genre.

What can I say? I've got a soft spot for the old PCM70. It just makes a few sounds I really like, that nothing else will do.


Regards,
Brian T

Hi

Its a general reverb workhorse i need,for all vocal tasks.If thats possible.
I notice the pcm 80's and 90's sell rather cheap on ebay...
Are they anygood ..?

Once again thanks guys for your replies....

Regards Paul

Yeah but that means that he has the space for it.

Also a plate in excellent condition.

But he did say he wanted long hall types.

By the way Jay I bought my PCM91 for $500 used. They are selling all over pretty cheaply. I think Lexi must becoming out with a new unit.

Something stereo with the 960L sound(but not as expensive).

Paul,

The reason I asked is not one reverb will cover all of the tasks.

If you have a Lexicon, there will always be that vocal that just doesn't blend well with it. So than you are going to have to find something to balance it with.

In my place alone I have something like 10 different reverbs that are devoted to vocals alone(not too mention the delays and modulation effect units).

You will always find a voice that just doesn't sit right(in the mix) with a particular sound and you need a solution.

For longer hall sounds(and rooms) a Quantec is excellent. It wouldn't be my only reverb though. Sometimes an AMS RMX 16 works better(especially with female vocalists). I love the old Eventide 2016 on vocals(I am acquiring soon the Princeton Digital version and will post some comments). For plate emulations I love the Dynacord DRP20,R880 and the Sony R7(you have to tweak it though). All of these reverbs blend well with a Lexicon 480L (usually darker and more synthethic sounding).

The more modern stuff like the KSP-8,Orville,M6000 and 960L have their places. But its something about the older algo's that work better for vocals to my ears(and also the color of conversion).

My favorite reverb for a vocal though would be the EMT 250. But if you can afford that than you wouldn't be asking.

$500 for a 91?!...that's a low low low price. Very nice deal on you behalf. We still sell quite a few 91's each month. We are working a new product but it's going to fall price wise between the PCM's and the 960...

Doug Marhoffer
Lexicon

Not to switch gears but since the topic is old verse is new Lexicon. Question to everyone.

Would it interest anybody if we re-introduced the PCM42?. Keeping it as close to original design as possible, if part sources are available.

Doug Marhoffer
Lexicon

Doug,

HELL YEAH!!!!

As long as:

1) You said it keep the sound!!!

2)Make it stereo!!!!

3)Make it syncable to midi.

4)Keep the price reasonable.


I own a pair of PCM42's and 41's. The 41's were cheap(i think $800 for the pair).

The 42's came out to be $2K for the lot.grudge

To have another would be great.

If this is strictly a PCM70 vs. PCM91 thread then my post may be out of place. But if you want a killer reverb for a reasonable amount of money, you might want to consider a second-hand Lexicon 300. I generally see them fetching about $1500 to $2100 on the second-hand market. Nobody ever seems to mention this piece, excepting that it is sometimes unfavorably compared to the Lex 224.

Though it would have been less money than my used 300, I was warned off the TC3000 when I went looking for a lush reverb. Was told by a few friends the TC is pristine but not as rich as a 300. Again, repeating what I had been told, haven't used the TC myself.

The 300 was my first high-end effects unit after having used Alesis and cheaper Lex units and I am delighted with the sound of the box. Gorgeous, lush reverbs, very smooth. Use it on vocals, guitars, drums, basically everything. I'm going analog in & out so not concerned with the dig connectivity. I was not familiar with the Kurzweil piece at the time I bought the 300, probably would have checked it out.

A lot of studios in LA started loading up on 2290's a couple years ago. I asked around why they weren't getting the 42's which I thought would be cheaper on the used market. I was wrong. The 2290's are cheaper and do more, but I prefer the simplicity sometimes. I wouldn't mind an AES port on the back, but I can't speak for everyone.

Yep!! Simplicity at it's finest... And they sound better.... but not quite as good as a pair of sdd-3000's

I think your comparing apples to oranges to banannas.

Nothing sounds or works like the PCM42 on a vocal. Not a PCM41 or the Super prime Times.

The TC2290 is cool but you need two of them to get the best benefit out of it(the Pseudo stereo thing kills a lot of its usefulness).

Are you speaking about the Korg SDD-3000? Or the Roland SDE3000?

The SDE3000 while it works on guitars(limited bandwith) doesn't work as well on anything else. Same goes for the Korg.

I just like the sound of the korg sdd-300 a bit better than the 42's. However, I have to say I don't do much mixing with vocals. I mostly work with experimental electronic music etc... For vocals, my favorite reverb is a lex 300, but that's probably just because we have one... there's probably something nicer out there I'm sure...

You probably mean the Roland SDD-3000?

I have to add the KORG SDD-3000 too, quite noisy and a bit cranky(well,mine is), but is sometimes unbeatable on guitar!
I like the SDD-1200 too....

Amund

Hi

Thanks for all your replies

I have enough info to go on now
And i will be looking out for a pcm 70 or 91
If anyone has one for sale let me know

Cheers Paul (impact-Studios UK)

i wud like a RI PCM42... pending price....