The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Yamaha NS10m Studio monitors and Amplifier thread
Old 19th January 2021 | Show parent
  #661
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonharris ➑️
approx 4 feet away being that they are near field monitors
As far as using Sonarworks/any correction software with NS10's, at first I thought why not?

But then I started thinking how did all those great engineers in the late 70's/80's/90's and up until 2012 mix all those great songs on NS10's without correction software?

I truly feel sorry for them
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #662
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrydpi ➑️
But then I started thinking how did all those great engineers in the late 70's/80's/90's and up until 2012 mix all those great songs on NS10's without correction software?
Maybe in a well acoustically treated mixing room?
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #663
Lives for gear
 
littlesicily's Avatar
 
16 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani ➑️
Maybe in a well acoustically treated mixing room?
Here's the real deal w/ room correction...

You can get your mix there without it.

Or... you can get your mix there much faster by removing all the guessing and trips to the car, etc.

I can't speak to the Sonar product, but the Trinnov has completely changed the game for me from recording thru mixing. Zero guess work bc I can hear everything accurately. It's sped up my mix time dramatically. I'd never go back to guessing again without it.
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #664
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi SteelyDani, Happy New Year!

Do you think a great Mix is simply an opinion?

If 10 of the top Engineers in the world mixed the same song, would it sound the same?
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #665
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily ➑️
Here's the real deal w/ room correction...

You can get your mix there without it.

Or... you can get your mix there much faster by removing all the guessing and trips to the car, etc.

I can't speak to the Sonar product, but the Trinnov has completely changed the game for me from recording thru mixing. Zero guess work bc I can hear everything accurately. It's sped up my mix time dramatically. I'd never go back to guessing again without it.
I agree with you. My studio is accoustically well treated with non-parallel walls and scalloped ceiling and despite this, I always use Sonarworks with all my monitors.

It is very difficult to achieve a room that does not have a problem with some frequency, even if it is "controlled".

However, the biggest challenge that I find when mixing in a non treated room, is not only correcting anomalies in its frequency response by means of software or hardware, but negotiating with its reverb or echoes. I can't imagine how someone can mix and especially apply the reverb effects with an uncontrolled RT60. To my knowledge there is no software that fixes these kinds of problems.
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #666
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrydpi ➑️
Hi SteelyDani, Happy New Year!

Do you think a great Mix is simply an opinion?

If 10 of the top Engineers in the world mixed the same song, would it sound the same?
I guess these are rhetorical questions .

Happy New Year too!
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #667
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
But a rhetorical question is a question someone asks without expecting an answer

The obvious answers are:
1) Yes.
2) No.
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #668
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrydpi ➑️

Do you think a great Mix is simply an opinion?

The obvious answers are:
1) Yes.
That's your opinion
Old 20th January 2021 | Show parent
  #669
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I guess I didn't express myself very well

Say if Chris Lord-Alge takes a song and mixes it the way he thinks it should sound, and then if Quincy Jones mixes that song the way he thinks it should sound, obviously they would both be great mixes, but would you agree they would be mixed differently?

If so, then each mix would be THEIR OPINION of how the song should be mixed.

Does that make any sense, or is it me?
Old 21st January 2021 | Show parent
  #670
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrydpi ➑️
I guess I didn't express myself very well

Say if Chris Lord-Alge takes a song and mixes it the way he thinks it should sound, and then if Quincy Jones mixes that song the way he thinks it should sound, obviously they would both be great mixes, but would you agree they would be mixed differently?

If so, then each mix would be THEIR OPINION of how the song should be mixed.

Does that make any sense, or is it me?
Perfectly clear from the very beginning.
Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #671
Gear Addict
 
jslstrat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have my original pair.( since 1991 ) Still original woofers in great shape. And I like it loud.
But blew the tweeters once not realizing master fader was pushed all the way up.:-)
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #672
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Hey folks, I was reading the beginning of this thread that it is advisable to use the trims pots on your amp and drive your interface hot into it, I've always done it the other way around (electric guitarist mentality XD) thinking there'd be more headroom leaving the amp wide open.
The amp is a crown dc300a Series 2 and studio ns10s.
So should I max out the interface output and trim the amp instead?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #673
Gear Guru
I used to install inline fuse holders for NS-10's. I got tired of replacing drivers. Changing a fuse is much quicker and cheaper.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #674
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 ➑️
Hey folks, I was reading the beginning of this thread that it is advisable to use the trims pots on your amp and drive your interface hot into it, I've always done it the other way around (electric guitarist mentality XD) thinking there'd be more headroom leaving the amp wide open.
The amp is a crown dc300a Series 2 and studio ns10s.
So should I max out the interface output and trim the amp instead?
I don't see any reason to do that unless you are having to back off the output of the interface considerably to avoid overloading the amp, speakers, or your ears.

I use a Metric Halo ULN-8 and it allows me to calibrate the output levels to accommodate a wide range of target devices: -10, +4, or a "monitor" setting which works well with powered monitors.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #675
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Indeed if I were to crack everything all the way the speakers would blow up, so I'm wondering wether is better to trim the amp or the interface?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #676
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
I used to install inline fuse holders for NS-10's. I got tired of replacing drivers. Changing a fuse is much quicker and cheaper.
Yeah mine have fuses on the tweeters, def a good safety measure.
So anyone, what's better gainstaging? Triming the interface or trimming the power amp?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #677
Lives for gear
 
littlesicily's Avatar
 
16 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Not sure how your monitoring is setup. I have a CraneSong Avocet that feeds 3 different speaker/amp setups... ATC 50's as mains (active), NS10-M Studio + Avantone CLA-200 and that amp is set at approx 50%. I did this bc I wanted the NS10 volume to be the same as the ATCs when I switch and this was where it works best. Do you have a monitor controller?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #678
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
My setup is a bit funky, I have two pairs of passive speakers (ns10s and apair of tannoys) powered by the same amp, the Tannoys need a tad more juice compared to the ns10s but not that much, so I just use a passive switch to A/B.
The feed comes from my Motu interface which if I crank all the way up I need to keep the amp at max around 50% and viceversa.
My question nobody has yet answered is which gainstaging is more optimal.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #679
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by caronte23 ➑️
My setup is a bit funky, I have two pairs of passive speakers (ns10s and apair of tannoys) powered by the same amp, the Tannoys need a tad more juice compared to the ns10s but not that much, so I just use a passive switch to A/B.
The feed comes from my Motu interface which if I crank all the way up I need to keep the amp at max around 50% and viceversa.
My question nobody has yet answered is which gainstaging is more optimal.
I’m guessing the most common way would be to adjust/trim the amp, not the interface.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #680
Here for the gear
 
Since quite a few studios still use NS10M, some engineers (including me) will keep them to be able to compare mixes made between different studios.

Because NS10M were so popular, a company called Avatone now makes active clones called CLA10, but I have never tried them and have no idea if they sound similar to NS10Ms.
Old 1 week ago
  #681
Here for the gear
 
smeltygrooves's Avatar
Regarding interface/amp gain staging...
I think it depends on the type of amp, how many pairs of monitors are being used, and what level of detail you need, the whole system setup, if it's single user or shared, and inherent design limitations.

1. Many old school "Hi-Fi" amps (Adcom 555, etc) which attempt to purely amplify the input signal do NOT have trims. Additionally, putting a preamp in front of it as a type of "monitor controller or multi-input device" may NOT have independent trims either. These "purest" type amps are expecting it's input signal strength to vary. The only option is to calibrate at the interface.
2. Higher end interfaces will have trims that may give you more detailed calibration. My Antelope Orion Studio HD has line outs that adjust in .1 dB increments to really fine tune discrepancies in the monitors. This is much more detailed than dialing in a knob on the back of a speaker by hand.
3. (somewhat tangential) For film post sound you playback a Dolby -20dB RMS Pink Noise audio file out of your DAW, and ideally all devices downstream are set to unity with the final adjustment made at the last gain stage before the speaker (either the external or internal amp). This level is measured from the listening position to the appropriate level (79-85dB SPL) with a meter set to "C-Weighting" and "Slow" response. More advanced studios will use a realtime analyzer to do this so correcting for room modes with EQ and/or timing delays help flatten the response of the room. The idea here is that the calibrated space lets you mix by ear to hit your mediums target LKFS level purely from the DAWs output without having to touch your volume dial (or if you do you have it marked or use a predetermined DIM switch).
4. You need headroom at each stage.
5. Trimming at the interface works if you have multiple trims for multiple pairs of monitors. Otherwise one set of speakers maybe lopsided while the other are equal.

6. This reminds me of a question I saw where someone had lost some hearing in one ear and was curious about where to adjust the gain to help compensate. Unequal speakers would make anyone else listening go crazy. Unequal DAW output would lopside the mix. A trim in the interface would help but also be flexible for anyone else using the same room.

7. There's probably more scientific answers out there, but just my thoughts.

Great topic though! Cheers!
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #682
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hello,
What is the best subwoofer to add to the ns10 ?
Something efficient but not too expensive.

Thank you for your help
Cheers
Sergio
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #683
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
the original sub for NS10 was YST-SW100, smaller version was YST-SW50, the best Yamaha sub was SW10, I also recommed Tannoy TS10 and Miller Kreisel subwoofers
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #684
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mando1 ➑️
the original sub for NS10 was YST-SW100, smaller version was YST-SW50, the best Yamaha sub was SW10, I also recommed Tannoy TS10 and Miller Kreisel subwoofers
I have been using NS10 / SW10 with great satisfaction for many years.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #685
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani ➑️
I have been using NS10 / SW10 with great satisfaction for many years.
I guess it depends on the definition of "satisfaction".

As far as pure listening pleasure is concerned, to me NS10 sound mediocre [low satisfaction].

However, when it comes to getting good mixes that translate well between different systems NS10 work well [high satisfaction].
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #686
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMix ➑️
I guess it depends on the definition of "satisfaction".

As far as pure listening pleasure is concerned, to me NS10 sound mediocre [low satisfaction].

However, when it comes to getting good mixes that translate well between different systems NS10 work well [high satisfaction].
Honestly, the NS-10 are not my favorite monitors when it comes to enjoying music . When it comes to mixing, you have to pay the toll of supporting them. Well ... they don't sound so bad to me either. Maybe it's my old ears.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 2966 views: 511855
Avatar for jeremy.c.
jeremy.c. 14th August 2020
replies: 62 views: 12301
Avatar for dnash
dnash 28th January 2021
replies: 8765 views: 1336392
Avatar for stevesolum
stevesolum 1 week ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump