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Yamaha NS10m Studio monitors and Amplifier thread
Old 26th May 2019 | Show parent
  #571
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovibis View Post
i use the urei 6260 at about half, and these are 2x150 , but Im wondering if the Hafler P1000 (which i think are only 2x100) would be better (less headroom , but maybe cleaner?). im just asking.
P1000 sounds good and clean ,a little thin though, maybe 2 p1000s will be better?
Old 19th June 2019
  #572
Gear Head
 

Hey guys,

I am a complete noob when it comes to what amplifiers to use in combo with my NS-10M Studio (or any other monitor for that matter). I have been using an old Onkyo TX Audio Video Control tuner amplifier with an integrated pre-amp, but it simply won't power up anymore. The amplifier connects straight into my computer where the signal comes from and then into the NS-10 monitors.

I want to upgrade my amplifier to something better and have been searching for hours on end for good amps for NS10s, however, I find it confusing when the choice of pre-amps come into the picture. I don't see many people talk about pre-amps, does that mean it doesn't really matter what pre-amp you use? I know it certainly matters a **** ton for mic pre-amps.

I would love to get help from you guys. 1st, does the quality of the pre-amp matter for the outputted sound, or is it just meant to be a way of controlling the amplifier so it doesn't run at full load all the time? If that's the case, then I guess I can buy a cheap pre-amp and use it with something like a Bryston 4B ST?

My MAX budget is $1200, so I need some help in finding (assuming you need a quality mic pre as well for your power amp) either an amplifier and pre-amp combo for ns10m or a quality amplifier with integrated pre-amp. I listen to all sorts of music and would prefer something that controls the audio signal really well (something I have heard the Bryston 4B ST does really well for that price range).
As I said, 1200 dollars is my max budget, so going lower than that is preferred. I can afford more than 1200, so don't be afraid to suggest something that costs 1250 for example.

Thanks in advance guys!
-Niklas
Old 26th June 2019 | Show parent
  #573
Here for the gear
Yamaha P2200 vs Adcom GFA 545 mark 1

Hey All,
Not new to Gearslutz, but new to posting here, so apologies if this post is done incorrectly or on the wrong thread. I have been reading up on all the suggested power amps for the NS-10ms. I was curious if anyone has any real world experience with these 2 amps (p2200 vs 545). If so, is there is a clear winner or distinct tonal difference, if so, what are the differences and who is the winner? Thank you in advance for your time. If Fletcher happens to see this, please weigh in.
Old 26th June 2019 | Show parent
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themetalmaestro View Post
Hey All,
Not new to Gearslutz, but new to posting here, so apologies if this post is done incorrectly or on the wrong thread. I have been reading up on all the suggested power amps for the NS-10ms. I was curious if anyone has any real world experience with these 2 amps (p2200 vs 545). If so, is there is a clear winner or distinct tonal difference, if so, what are the differences and who is the winner? Thank you in advance for your time. If Fletcher happens to see this, please weigh in.
LOVE my gfa 545 mk1 with my Amphion one15, get it modded by Jim Williams and you'll be golden
Old 3rd July 2019 | Show parent
  #575
On the advice of another slut on here (can't recall who it was) I got a set of Mission 70 MKII speakers instead of NS10s. I remember the guy telling me he had both and the Missions sounded pretty much identical to the NS10s he had. The Missions are also sealed enclosures with poly woofers and only slightly smaller cabinet. I've never worked with NS10s but the Missions seem to fit the description of the harsh highs, bass cut off around 50 or 60 hz and detailed midrange that everybody describes. A real plus is (and I hate to start any kind of frenzy over these) they can be had for less than a hundred bucks used. I think I paid $40 for mine.
Attached Thumbnails
Yamaha NS10m Studio monitors and Amplifier thread-mission_70mkii_rt_top5_635x432_pixels.gif  
Old 3rd July 2019 | Show parent
  #576
Gear Maniac
I do never no that the ns10m had a bass cutt attall.
Old 6th July 2019 | Show parent
  #577
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Always thought the Yamaha A100 amplifier that was released with the ns10 at that time should be enough ???

AM I wrong ?
Old 6th July 2019 | Show parent
  #578
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Always thought the Yamaha A100 amplifier that was released with the ns10 at that time should be enough ???

AM I wrong ?
It's too weak to drive the speakers; only 50W ~ 8 ohm @ 1 % THD. And a poor damping factor of 60 ~ 70.

You have not heard what your NS10's can do if you've only heard them through that amp.

But hey if you have nothing else or are on a low budget, it does amplify and it looks like a cute combo.
Old 6th July 2019 | Show parent
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
It's too weak to drive the speakers; only 50W ~ 8 ohm @ 1 % THD. And a poor damping factor of 60 ~ 70.

You have not heard what your NS10's can do if you've only heard them through that amp.

But hey if you have nothing else or are on a low budget, it does amplify and it looks like a cute combo.
Thanks for your reply !!
So I should change: which amplifier do you advise me to get the most of my NS10 and that is not too expensive?

Regards

Sergio
Old 6th July 2019 | Show parent
  #580
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Thanks for your reply !!
So I should change: which amplifier do you advise me to get the most of my NS10 and that is not too expensive?

Regards

Sergio
Do you have a budget in mind?
Old 6th July 2019 | Show parent
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Do you have a budget in mind?
No not really
Just looking for the best deal
Old 9th July 2019 | Show parent
  #582
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
It's too weak to drive the speakers; only 50W ~ 8 ohm @ 1 % THD. And a poor damping factor of 60 ~ 70.

You have not heard what your NS10's can do if you've only heard them through that amp.

But hey if you have nothing else or are on a low budget, it does amplify and it looks like a cute combo.
Would the Yamaha R-S202 stereo receiver be a good pairing with the NS10's?
Old 9th July 2019 | Show parent
  #583
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainStream View Post
Would the Yamaha R-S202 stereo receiver be a good pairing with the NS10's?
Hi MountainStream

I don't have direct experience with this amp, but as far as the specs go it looks like a rather cheap budget amp;

- THD is pretty high at 0,2 % ==> VS 0,002 % of a typical higher end model; a high THD translates to lower resolution audio, it will sound less refined, unfocussed, stereo image will neither be wide nor open;

- There's no mention of a damping factor ==> I expect this to be low as well (Generally speaking a low damping factor means less control over the speaker, i.o.w. the bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors);

- SNR or signal-to-noise ratio is quite high at 70 ~ 71 dB ==> VS 110 dB or better of a typical higher end model, so this is quite a noisy amp; the tweeters will hiss continuously, approx. 40 dB (!) louder then on a decent amp's 110 dB SNR;

- Power rating in the various ads online claim 140 W of power into 8 ohm but go digging in the manual and it turns out to be a more conservative 100 W ~ 8 ohm for EU models and 85 W ~ 8 ohm for Asian models .. these are not the best numbers for a 120 W ~ 8 ohm peak rated NS10M.

I don't know what you make of all that but in my book this amp fails on all levels for (semi-) pro studio use - although, again, it will probably be adequate enough if you're on a budget.

As with any amp the joker card is the MATCH of amp + speaker. Not sure if I'm the right guy to put this into words but I'll take a shot at it: all of the numbers above are just specs, and in reality the amp might actually sound better than the numbers suggest. It could turn out to sound rather "warm" - by lack of a better word - given the distortion levels and speculated low damping factor. As the NS10M is a rather cold sounding speaker, the match of a (warm sounding) amp and a (cold sounding) speaker could possibly result in an evened out sound. I wouldn't expect any miracles with this specific R-S202 amp, but who knows.

Also there's personal taste to consider .. an endless topic ;-)

Anyway, JUST my opinion, derived from the facts and numbers I could find; page 23 of the manual:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/794512/web_ZU46020_R-S202_om_UA_En.pdf


Cheers
Emanuel

Last edited by Emanuel23; 9th July 2019 at 05:55 PM..
Old 10th July 2019 | Show parent
  #584
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Hi MountainStream

I don't have direct experience with this amp, but as far as the specs go it looks like a rather cheap budget amp;

- THD is pretty high at 0,2 % ==> VS 0,002 % of a typical higher end model; a high THD translates to lower resolution audio, it will sound less refined, unfocussed, stereo image will neither be wide nor open;

- There's no mention of a damping factor ==> I expect this to be low as well (Generally speaking a low damping factor means less control over the speaker, i.o.w. the bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors);

- SNR or signal-to-noise ratio is quite high at 70 ~ 71 dB ==> VS 110 dB or better of a typical higher end model, so this is quite a noisy amp; the tweeters will hiss continuously, approx. 40 dB (!) louder then on a decent amp's 110 dB SNR;

- Power rating in the various ads online claim 140 W of power into 8 ohm but go digging in the manual and it turns out to be a more conservative 100 W ~ 8 ohm for EU models and 85 W ~ 8 ohm for Asian models .. these are not the best numbers for a 120 W ~ 8 ohm peak rated NS10M.

I don't know what you make of all that but in my book this amp fails on all levels for (semi-) pro studio use - although, again, it will probably be adequate enough if you're on a budget.

As with any amp the joker card is the MATCH of amp + speaker. Not sure if I'm the right guy to put this into words but I'll take a shot at it: all of the numbers above are just specs, and in reality the amp might actually sound better than the numbers suggest. It could turn out to sound rather "warm" - by lack of a better word - given the distortion levels and speculated low damping factor. As the NS10M is a rather cold sounding speaker, the match of a (warm sounding) amp and a (cold sounding) speaker could possibly result in an evened out sound. I wouldn't expect any miracles with this specific R-S202 amp, but who knows.

Also there's personal taste to consider .. an endless topic ;-)

Anyway, JUST my opinion, derived from the facts and numbers I could find; page 23 of the manual:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/794512/web_ZU46020_R-S202_om_UA_En.pdf


Cheers
Emanuel
Thanks Emanuel, that is really helpful! Now I know what to look for when deciding whether an amp is good or not, instead of asking everyone in here all the time.
Thanks again, I appreciate it a lot!
Old 11th July 2019 | Show parent
  #585
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tymish's Avatar
 

I've seen some folks like the ART SLA-2 to power their NS-10s.
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #586
Gear Addict
 
dudeitsree's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Hi MountainStream

I don't have direct experience with this amp, but as far as the specs go it looks like a rather cheap budget amp;

- THD is pretty high at 0,2 % ==> VS 0,002 % of a typical higher end model; a high THD translates to lower resolution audio, it will sound less refined, unfocussed, stereo image will neither be wide nor open;

- There's no mention of a damping factor ==> I expect this to be low as well (Generally speaking a low damping factor means less control over the speaker, i.o.w. the bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors);

- SNR or signal-to-noise ratio is quite high at 70 ~ 71 dB ==> VS 110 dB or better of a typical higher end model, so this is quite a noisy amp; the tweeters will hiss continuously, approx. 40 dB (!) louder then on a decent amp's 110 dB SNR;

- Power rating in the various ads online claim 140 W of power into 8 ohm but go digging in the manual and it turns out to be a more conservative 100 W ~ 8 ohm for EU models and 85 W ~ 8 ohm for Asian models .. these are not the best numbers for a 120 W ~ 8 ohm peak rated NS10M.

I don't know what you make of all that but in my book this amp fails on all levels for (semi-) pro studio use - although, again, it will probably be adequate enough if you're on a budget.

As with any amp the joker card is the MATCH of amp + speaker. Not sure if I'm the right guy to put this into words but I'll take a shot at it: all of the numbers above are just specs, and in reality the amp might actually sound better than the numbers suggest. It could turn out to sound rather "warm" - by lack of a better word - given the distortion levels and speculated low damping factor. As the NS10M is a rather cold sounding speaker, the match of a (warm sounding) amp and a (cold sounding) speaker could possibly result in an evened out sound. I wouldn't expect any miracles with this specific R-S202 amp, but who knows.

Also there's personal taste to consider .. an endless topic ;-)

Anyway, JUST my opinion, derived from the facts and numbers I could find; page 23 of the manual:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/794512/web_ZU46020_R-S202_om_UA_En.pdf


Cheers
Emanuel
Hey Emanuel, do you have any experience with the Hafler P1500 paired with NS10’s? I have one that needs servicing but wonder if it’s worth spending money on getting fixed vs buying something better. I don’t know if I can afford one of your amps, although I wish I could!
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #587
Lives for gear
 

Isn't there like a nice amplifier that is working well around the price of 500 USD?

Sergio
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #588
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeitsree View Post
Hey Emanuel, do you have any experience with the Hafler P1500 paired with NS10’s? I have one that needs servicing but wonder if it’s worth spending money on getting fixed vs buying something better. I don’t know if I can afford one of your amps, although I wish I could!
Hi Daniel

I have no direct experience with the Hafler P1500 amp. I do remember folks being happy with these about 10 ~ 20 years ago when I read about Haflers in Sound on Sound.

The only thing I can comment on is the specs - so that only gives us one side of the story:

- 75 W in 8 Ohm is rather weak for powering the 120 W peak NS10;
- damping factor is doable @ 350 ~ 150;
- SNR at 100 dB makes it not too noisy, especially for an amp of that era;
- distortion sitting at 0,2 % THD is high.

The specs can be found here:
https://hafler.com/pdf/archive/P1500_datasheet.pdf

My assumption is that everything bar the 75 W power cap will make it into an OK amp for the NS10. The rather harsh / direct / forward sounding NS10 will probably be cushioned by this Hafler, that I estimate - purely by specs and reputation - to have a musical, analogue character. I expect not the best stereo image or definition from it due to the high THD percentage, and bass info will lack due to the low power output, but at the end of the day it will probably make for a workable NS 10 amp, as long as you're listening on a low SPL level.

Just my 2 cents!

Cheers
Emanuel
Old 18th July 2019
  #589
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tymish's Avatar
 

NS-10s are rated 60W RMS and 120 W Peak. The Hafler is rated 75W and it's not clear if that's peak or RMS from the spec sheet. (hate it when power ratings aren't clear) I would think that's RMS otherwise this would be a very low power amplifier for studio monitors. Somewhere around 20-30W RMS. The amp will probably work just fine with the NS-10s.

I tend to prefer an amp with double the speaker RMS power rating. Yes you 'may' blow the speakers easier but clean power is less damaging than distorted power and that headroom is nice for transients. Since NS-10s are a sealed and not ported cabinet they also are less efficient and require more power than a similar ported cabinet.
Old 30th August 2019
  #590
Gear Head
 

Over 20 years I've used NS-10M Studios with a Yamaha P2200, Hafler 3000, Bryston 3B SST (was working at a big studio that literally just had them in storage for swapping). Bryston was my favorite of that bunch and after a 10 year break from them, bought a used set on eBay with a non-modded Adcom 545. It's been awhile but my impression is that the 10s sound "correct" to my ears with the adcom and it's a phenomenal deal for a small room (16x18) like mine. The whole package set me back about $700 bucks and I'm quite happy. I realize the adcom has less power than some recommend, so YMMV.

Has anyone tried the CLA-200 with any variant of original 10s (not the CLA-10s).
Old 16th September 2019
  #591
Lives for gear
 

Anyone give the new cla-200 a try yet?
Old 16th September 2019
  #592
I drive my NS-10Ms with a McIntosh MA 5100 and I'm very satisfied with this combination.
Old 16th September 2019 | Show parent
  #593
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Hi MountainStream


- THD is pretty high at 0,2 % ==> VS 0,002 % of a typical higher end model; a high THD translates to lower resolution audio, it will sound less refined, unfocussed, stereo image will neither be wide nor open;

- There's no mention of a damping factor ==> I expect this to be low as well (Generally speaking a low damping factor means less control over the speaker, i.o.w. the bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors);
Dear Emanuel

I'm afraid research simply doesn't agree with those statements.

Geddes' paper on distortion perception:
http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/The%20P...Distortion.pdf

Toole on damping factor:
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technica...loyd-Toole.pdf
Old 17th September 2019
  #594
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhorn88 View Post
Dear Emanuel

I'm afraid research simply doesn't agree with those statements.

Geddes' paper on distortion perception:
http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/The%20P...Distortion.pdf

Toole on damping factor:
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technica...loyd-Toole.pdf
Please be more specific, rather than link and quote some papers. If what I said is wrong indeed, you should be able to pin it down in a couple of sentences. Be my guest. Let us know how you interpret the research or that powerpoint presentation you linked, and tell us how you apply this to the amp MountainStream mentioned, and by extension how it compares to say a higher end model that indeed sounds better.

I'm out there in the field with this stuff all of the time. Just put a cheap amp with figures not unlike the one that we talked about next to a decent one, and draw your own conclusions. Sure one makes oversimplifications in the process .. but as a general rule these hold their ground pretty well.
Old 17th September 2019 | Show parent
  #595
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Please be more specific, rather than link and quote some papers. If what I said is wrong indeed, you should be able to pin it down in a couple of sentences. Be my guest. Let us know how you interpret the research or that powerpoint presentation you linked, and tell us how you apply this to the amp MountainStream mentioned, and by extension how it compares to say a higher end model that indeed sounds better.

I'm out there in the field with this stuff all of the time. Just put a cheap amp with figures not unlike the one that we talked about next to a decent one, and draw your own conclusions. Sure one makes oversimplifications in the process .. but as a general rule these hold their ground pretty well.
I am not referring to any specific products, rather than the general claims made. Price does not necessarily play a factor for performance, only objective testing can provide results about a specific device. Potential build quality aside of course (or one would hope).

The Toole paper is two pages long and is good as it is, there is no need to add or substract from it, but it is explained that "high" damping factor in reality makes no pratical difference in terms of performance.
The sentence "he bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors" is simply a subjective opinion that holds no ground from an objective pov.

To summarize the Geddes paper, he actually summarized it himself on DIYaudio.

"in 2003 my partner and I published two papers on the perception of nonlinear distortion. Much of the results from this work is available here http://gedlee.com/distortion_perception.htm.

Basically through an ellaborate test of some 25 college students we were able to show that THD and IMD are meaningless measurements of distortion as far as perception is concerned. Basically one cannot say that something does or does not sound good based on these measurements. .01% can sound outrageous in some cases and 25% can be inaudible in others. The numbers are meaningless.

This result has been confirmed by several sources and now virtually eveyone in the loudspeaker business is coming to the conclusion that making THD measurements is pointless. Floyd Toole believes that nonlinearties in loudspeakers is irrelavent as evidenced by the fact that his new book contains no discussion of this topic. Lorri Fincham recently remarked at ALMA that THD and IMD were completely meaningless as a judge of sound quality. My own presentation from ALMA (China) last year says the same thing and maybe goes even a bit further.

Basically distortion, as we are used to thinking about it, is completely incorrect. This was further confirmed when we did a study of compression drivers published in JAES. In this study no one of about 30 subjects could hear nonlinear distortion up to the thermal limit of the driver - some 126 dB at the waveguide. This result was surprising and quite controversial, but it is holding firm as quite correct.

There are things that we perceive as distortion-like artifacts, but these are not nonlinearities in the drivers themselves, but are actually nonlinearities in our hearing system. This was brought to like by my partner and I in Oct. 2006 at the AES convention. These diffraction-like artifacts are perceived quite readily by us, but only at higher SPL levels, there are not audible at lower SPLs. These effects are virtually ignored in most loudspeaker designs.

All in all the situation is unfolding quite differently than what has been presumed to be the reality."
Old 17th September 2019 | Show parent
  #596
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhorn88 View Post
I am not referring to any specific products, rather than the general claims made. Price does not necessarily play a factor for performance, only objective testing can provide results about a specific device. Potential build quality aside of course (or one would hope).

The Toole paper is two pages long and is good as it is, there is no need to add or substract from it, but it is explained that "high" damping factor in reality makes no pratical difference in terms of performance.
The sentence "he bass performance will lack and will be rather smudgy, not as tight and controlled as it could be with higher damping factors" is simply a subjective opinion that holds no ground from an objective pov.

To summarize the Geddes paper, he actually summarized it himself on DIYaudio.

"in 2003 my partner and I published two papers on the perception of nonlinear distortion. Much of the results from this work is available here http://gedlee.com/distortion_perception.htm.

Basically through an ellaborate test of some 25 college students we were able to show that THD and IMD are meaningless measurements of distortion as far as perception is concerned. Basically one cannot say that something does or does not sound good based on these measurements. .01% can sound outrageous in some cases and 25% can be inaudible in others. The numbers are meaningless.

This result has been confirmed by several sources and now virtually eveyone in the loudspeaker business is coming to the conclusion that making THD measurements is pointless. Floyd Toole believes that nonlinearties in loudspeakers is irrelavent as evidenced by the fact that his new book contains no discussion of this topic. Lorri Fincham recently remarked at ALMA that THD and IMD were completely meaningless as a judge of sound quality. My own presentation from ALMA (China) last year says the same thing and maybe goes even a bit further.

Basically distortion, as we are used to thinking about it, is completely incorrect. This was further confirmed when we did a study of compression drivers published in JAES. In this study no one of about 30 subjects could hear nonlinear distortion up to the thermal limit of the driver - some 126 dB at the waveguide. This result was surprising and quite controversial, but it is holding firm as quite correct.

There are things that we perceive as distortion-like artifacts, but these are not nonlinearities in the drivers themselves, but are actually nonlinearities in our hearing system. This was brought to like by my partner and I in Oct. 2006 at the AES convention. These diffraction-like artifacts are perceived quite readily by us, but only at higher SPL levels, there are not audible at lower SPLs. These effects are virtually ignored in most loudspeaker designs.

All in all the situation is unfolding quite differently than what has been presumed to be the reality."
What about your own experience?
Old 17th September 2019 | Show parent
  #597
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
What about your own experience?
Let's say participating in controlled double-blind testing has humbled me on more than one occasion. I've learned that there are an infinite number of opinions - and then there is actual scientific research with regards to psychoacoustics, which can help us make good choices. I prefer to do the latter. Picking equipment for the right reasons, not because of 'opinions'
Old 17th September 2019 | Show parent
  #598
Lives for gear
we are safe. you have not wrote "double bind randomized". This expression called also ABX is an affront on this part of this forum.


The circle of confusion is a very comfortable sofa and people do not like being moved.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #599
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Emanuel23's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhorn88 View Post
Most articles eager to debunk the damping factor myth only explain the issue in part. They all miss the elephant in the room - and the funny part is a lot of these papers open with it; the IMPEDANCE of an amp being represented by a simple resistance value. It is much more complicated than that.

A damping factor I find to be a good indicator of the quality of an amp, but I agree that it is NOT the defining characteristic at all. It is more of an indication of what might be.

Usually cheap amps have low damping factors, and that tells us a certain story. Amps with a high damping factor, especially class A and AB ones, more often than not are well built and have other technology and specs working for them, creating a more controlled sound overall. A typical example is Bryston; some of the older amps - I believe the ST series - "only" have a DF of 250, but they sound very good and control the dynamics very well nonetheless.

Current day Class D amplifiers on the other hand seem to stand synonymous for high damping factors, probably due to how the tech is designed.

What I'm saying is that a high damping factor is an indirect + possible indication of the quality of the amp - broadly speaking, to be taken with a grain of salt, but still valuable.
Old 20th September 2019 | Show parent
  #600
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
Most articles eager to debunk the damping factor myth only explain the issue in part. They all miss the elephant in the room - and the funny part is a lot of these papers open with it; the IMPEDANCE of an amp being represented by a simple resistance value. It is much more complicated than that.

A damping factor I find to be a good indicator of the quality of an amp, but I agree that it is NOT the defining characteristic at all. It is more of an indication of what might be.

Usually cheap amps have low damping factors, and that tells us a certain story. Amps with a high damping factor, especially class A and AB ones, more often than not are well built and have other technology and specs working for them, creating a more controlled sound overall. A typical example is Bryston; some of the older amps - I believe the ST series - "only" have a DF of 250, but they sound very good and control the dynamics very well nonetheless.

Current day Class D amplifiers on the other hand seem to stand synonymous for high damping factors, probably due to how the tech is designed.

What I'm saying is that a high damping factor is an indirect + possible indication of the quality of the amp - very broadly speaking, to be taken with a grain of salt, but still valuable.
Good post. Apologies if I came about crude - I am perhaps a bit triggered by some wild claims sometimes made and attributed to one particular element in the design of a piece of equipment. I'm still very unconvinced that 0.2% harmonic distortion in an amplifier will provide a vastly different 'resolution' or stereo image
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