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Tape delay
Old 4th May 2003
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Tape delay

I hope this isn't an idle question. I'm a low-budget musician looking for ideas and trying to keep up with what's happening.

Earlier today I was listening to an album by Robert Fripp and Brian Eno from the early 1970s. It's one of the ones they did using two Revox A77s to provide a time delay, which Eno used a lot at that time. I remember a few other people experimenting with the idea as well.

The A77 was especially suitable for doing that, though I seem to remember Fripp saying some people had managed to use a pair of TEAC decks to get the same result (this would have been about 1978/79).

I was wondering if there's a modern equivalent? Does anybody still do that? And what equipment do they use? Also, I've thought about using sampling or sequencing to get a similar result, and although I've had some success I've never really produced anything very startling yet. I wondered if anyone has any comments.


- Andrew
Old 4th May 2003
  #2
Gear Head
 

tapes etc.

http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/equip...Recorders.html
is a site that might have some useful information for you about tape loops & tape echo.

Also, loopers delight is a site & mailing list that may have some info for you.

Good luck.

Tom
Old 5th May 2003
  #3
Gear Head
 

for a digital alternative you might check into the lexicon jamman or the oberheim echoplex...
Old 5th May 2003
  #4
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covert's Avatar
 

Fripp ended up changing over to a couple of Electro Harmonix 16 second digital delays, largely because they were smaller, lighter, and easier to set up than the tape decks.

Another person to check out in regards to this sort of thing is Paul Drescher, who used a reel to reel deck, modified with extended arms. His rig was multitrack, either 4 or 8, and he controlled what went where with a small mixer.

Roland's (Boss) current loop pedal is pretty cool for this kind of playing.
Old 4th June 2003
  #5
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Thanks for all of that - it's all proved to be useful information and I've now got something to work on.

Sorry for the long delay in acknowledging this, and many thanks again for the information.
Old 4th June 2003
  #6
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Thanks for that, too.

And I'm glad the marimba worked out in the end. Do you know Steve Reich's piece Six Marimbas (based on his earlier piece Six Pianos)? If you love the sound of the marimba it's worth checking out.
Old 4th June 2003
  #7
Here for the gear
 

I love Music for 18 Musicians as well.

I'd be interested to hear your Reich type piece if you ever finish it. For what it may be worth, my effort in that area is online at

http://www.myths-and-legends.org/andrew/

- it's the one called Welcome to the World (it was written for someone's new child, hence the title). And it was recorded using a four track analogue portastudio - which is probably pretty rare around here. :D

Your marimba sounds pretty good on the sample track you did, BTW. I'm impressed.
Old 5th June 2003
  #8
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Thermionic's Avatar
 

Hello Silent Partner. FM2C, if you've got the bug for tape-echos, indulge it. I have a '60s tube tape-echo, and I can honestly say NO digital emulation can touch it. The wow+flutter/head-saturation etc are part of the sound, they add nuance that's difficult to achieve with binary driven gear. Not to mention the sound you get when the heads start to feedback, or, "tape-reverb" as some units offer. Also, if you find a tube unit it will probably have a nice clipping characteristic, I have heard of folk using Dynacord tube-echos on guitars for this very purpose.

They can be found for little-cash if you know where to look.

One option would be to convert an A77, they can be found cheaply at hi-fi fairs, but this will only give you basic echo.

You may have noticed Roland RE-201s creeping up in value in the last few years. Something not everyone knows is that there was another company that produced a 201-clone (I imagine Roland made it for them, or they licensed the design). This unit is identical to a 201, but can be had for peanuts on ebay, if my memory was better I could tell you the brand-name...Other options would be: Watkins Copycat (can be had cheap at junk-shops), Dynacord (several models, transistor and tube) can be found for anywhere between $50-500USD on ebay (depending on what day you see them I guess..).

There are numerous tape-echos, Binson/Meazzi (probably spelt wrong) and a few others I can't name due to aforementioned crap memory. IMHO NOTHING sounds like a REAL tape-echo, nor will it be as much fun, happy hunting!
Old 5th June 2003
  #9
I have a Roland SE 555 for sale in London...

Jules
Old 5th June 2003
  #10
Gear Addict
 
mitgong's Avatar
 

In general I also believe that nothing sounds quite like real tape. I will say, however, that Echo Farm (and, I would assume, the Echo Pod stuff) from Line6 is astonishingly close, and will save your ass when you're in the middle of a reaggae album AND BOTH OF YOUR FRIGGIN' TAPE DELAYS DIE. Sigh.
Old 5th June 2003
  #11
pan
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pan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I have a Roland SE 555 for sale in London...
Wow, that's kind of the Rolls Royce of Tape Delays....

n
Old 6th June 2003
  #12
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Echo Farm Plugin check it out for yourself
Old 6th June 2003
  #13
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mitgong's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by pan
Wow, that's kind of the Rolls Royce of Tape Delays....

n
Yeah, and about as expensive to ship as a Rolls when it inevitably breaks. Grrrrrrrr.

The rolling rackmount doesn't help.

But: The chorus is geat! (Echofarm na do dat.)
Old 12th June 2003
  #14
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Ive been tryin to sell my 4 channel echoplex fer awile now.I have 2 echoplexs a 4 channel and a single channel one I hadn't used either of them fer bout a year or so I figured Id sell one and buy something Id use.So I dusted them off, put new tape in them and plugged them in.I havent stoped using them sence one is hooked up to my amp the other one is hooked up to my studio they fuckin rock.I havent even touched my delta labs effectron 2 or my lexicon sence then nothing compares.I guess I would still sell one of them but I will keep one fer sure.FRANK BOOTH
Old 12th June 2003
  #15
Old 13th June 2003
  #16
Gear Nut
 
bopmachine's Avatar
 

There's nothing special about the equipment needed for either tape echo or tape slapback. All you really need is a Reel to Reel machine set to reproduce.

to vary the delay there are one of two things you can do:

1. Slow or speed up the machine.
2. Vary the distance of the reproduce head from the record head.

When I first started to record I used an old cheap akai rtr for guitar echo and adjusted the speed of the motor timing.

But as the folks said - there is nothing like the sound of real tape echo. I have yet to hear an emulation (and I've heard ALOT of them) that sounds the same to me.

These days I use a Studer C-37 for tape echo. It's massive and weighs over 100LBs!!!

He with the biggest effects pedal wins!
Old 19th June 2003
  #17
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Here's a new product that should be on the street within a few months:
http://fulltone.com/C_S_TubeTapeEcho.asp

They're also producing a direct tape unit replacement for all Tube and solid state Echoplexes ever made, loaded with much improved tape.

Word is street prices should be around US$719-765 new.
Old 19th June 2003
  #18
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

that fulltone looks cool. wonder what the $ will be?

i know its not tape but my moog analog delay is pretty damn wicked of a delay, and combined with the ring modulator LFO's, can do some pretty good wow and flutter.
Old 19th June 2003
  #19
Just sold my SRE 555 on Ebay for Β£300 pounds

To mechanically odd for my taste.. And I need all the cash I can muster for the studio extension I am building..

Hello rackspace!!

Old 19th June 2003
  #20
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Here's a new product that should be on the street within a few months:

why did you show me that?!
Old 17th December 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 

The Frippertronics Preset in the Eventide DSP4000 is the kind of looper your looking at 10 seconds stereo Delay or 20 seconds mono! (Doesn't sound like "Tape" though !)
Old 17th December 2012
  #22
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte View Post
The Frippertronics Preset in the Eventide DSP4000 is the kind of looper your looking at 10 seconds stereo Delay or 20 seconds mono! (Doesn't sound like "Tape" though !)
only now he can't afford it ...because his kids, who were 9 and 10 when the thread started, are about to go to college
Old 17th December 2012
  #23
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Oh Come on ......We all love these green Cheese Mouldy Threads - They Mature with Age!
Cheers
TLB!
Old 31st July 2013
  #24
Here for the gear
 

tape delay

Quote:
Originally Posted by bopmachine View Post
There's nothing special about the equipment needed for either tape echo or tape slapback. All you really need is a Reel to Reel machine set to reproduce.

to vary the delay there are one of two things you can do:

1. Slow or speed up the machine.
2. Vary the distance of the reproduce head from the record head.

When I first started to record I used an old cheap akai rtr for guitar echo and adjusted the speed of the motor timing.

But as the folks said - there is nothing like the sound of real tape echo. I have yet to hear an emulation (and I've heard ALOT of them) that sounds the same to me.

These days I use a Studer C-37 for tape echo. It's massive and weighs over 100LBs!!!

He with the biggest effects pedal wins!
I've seen all the stuff on youtube and everywhere else. but , I've yet to
find anyone to explain exactly how you hook everything up, between the
reel to reel and mixer and amp. mainly, they just show you a couple of
things, and how it sounds. - - I'd like to try it, I've got a teac 3340s and
a behringer ub802 mixer and a peavey unity 1000. - - anyone would
care to explain the hook ups, would be appreciated thanks strangedisc
Old 31st July 2013
  #25
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangedisc View Post
I've seen all the stuff on youtube and everywhere else. but , I've yet to
find anyone to explain exactly how you hook everything up, between the
reel to reel and mixer and amp. mainly, they just show you a couple of
things, and how it sounds. - - I'd like to try it, I've got a teac 3340s and
a behringer ub802 mixer and a peavey unity 1000. - - anyone would
care to explain the hook ups, would be appreciated thanks strangedisc
EFX send (post fader aux out) to the record input. Playback output to EFX return.
Old 1st August 2013
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
EFX send (post fader aux out) to the record input. Playback output to EFX return.
aux send to tape in 3340s - tape out to efx return on mixer - main out to
amp - everythings working, no guitar sound thru amp -
Old 1st August 2013
  #27
Gear Addict
 
danly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by strangedisc View Post
aux send to tape in 3340s - tape out to efx return on mixer - main out to
amp - everythings working, no guitar sound thru amp -
gonna need a d.i. on the front of that, and a reamp going between mixer and (guitar) amp. maybe try turning up the control room volume?
it should work without the reamp, but will be distorted.
(guitar amp wants to see guitar and youre sending it line level).
Old 1st August 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 

You can always record the Guitar 1st, as the Delay can put many Guitarists off their Groove! Then send/Return it through the Console. You can also Vary the Length of Delay with a Tape loop with Different Speeds and Varispeed for Tonal or Musical BPM increments etc. Also a Mic Stand, China-Graph Pencil, and Tape Loop make the Gap even longer! 2 Tape machines make this kind of process much easier!
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