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Ideas for retro drum sounds?
Old 27th June 2009
  #1
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Ideas for retro drum sounds?

I'm working on a project for a guy who is heavily into old 50's, 60's rockabilly. I would have like to track everyone together but he has great difficulty singing with a band and the guitarist is sending his tracks via the net.

Anyway, I tracked the drums and bass, put together a monitor mix with the guitarist's file and after much editing, put his vocal over top. It sounds quite good and I'm happy with it in the sense that I captured everything well and made him sound like he can sing in time.

However, he loves the sounds of his old records and wants then to sound closer to those recordings.

It was recorded with PT, using good (API) pres, ribbons on the drums, bass is both DI and mic'ed.

What are some techniques for "retrofying" this?

I was thinking of playing the mix on some speakers and tracking that into a cassette deck via microphones, and mixing that in with the track, but I would think the tape speed wouldn't be perfect and weird phasing would occur.

Any thoughts on this or other ideas?
Old 27th June 2009
  #2
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filthyrich's Avatar
 

maybe

Maybe do the entire mix minus the vocals into the tape machine and dump back to Pt. It'll sound lo-fi, but the mix shouldn't change much. Or, do the entire mix to tape even with the vocals. I dunno. Use the craperizer.


ADDED LATER: Maybe dump the entire drum mix onto tape and import back. No phase issues if you only use the tape drum mix. You could blend that with the gits, bass and vox that you could run through trashy eq's etc.

good luck.
Old 27th June 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyrich View Post
Use the craperizer.
His desire to make the tracks sound like they were recorded with one mic in a crowd at a barn dance is disappointing to me actually. IMO, craperized is the right word.

Right now, the mix is punchy and bold sounding. Now he wants me to make it thin, crunchy and papery. It's his record and he's paying for it, but I want to find a more "modern" approach to getting results we both can live with.

I like the sound of the Detroit Cobras (Hey Sailor) , but I think that's
recorded hot to tape.

YouTube - Detroit Cobras - Hey sailor
Old 27th June 2009
  #4
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the concept off old drum recordings was to record a drum on a minimum of tracks. More than 4 was not possible that time i thought and often the whole band had to be recorded on that 4 track. Further were the drums of that time different than now, and everything was recorded on tube gear to tape or straight (mixed on the spot) to accetate as far as i know.

But the start is the instrument, wich was tuned lower than today, and played softer than now. Tuning a now style drum session to an old is impossible i think, you should start right with the right source.
Old 27th June 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waxx View Post
the concept off old drum recordings was to record a drum on a minimum of tracks. More than 4 was not possible that time i thought and often the whole band had to be recorded on that 4 track. Further were the drums of that time different than now, and everything was recorded on tube gear to tape or straight (mixed on the spot) to accetate as far as i know.

But the start is the instrument, wich was tuned lower than today, and played softer than now. Tuning a now style drum session to an old is impossible i think, you should start right with the right source.
I hear you. I learned a few years back working for an indie label that wanted old sounding recordings. Sticking an old silver mic (of some sort) over the band into a 1/4" tape machine did the trick. Of course, the band needed to listen to how the past musicians did their parts and proper tones needed to be dialed in on all the instruments.

This time however, I was under the impression he wanted to "modernize" these renditions he's doing and he talked about "punch" and many other adjectives. The drums were tuned similar to a 50s/60s kit and played in that style. Miced with 2 apex 205s recorderman style, D112 on kik (boo), SM7b on snare (Yay). I went for sparse micing of the drums.

Overall the drums sound very nice. The room was a bit tighter than it could have been for vintage sound, but I also have the option of firing the tracks out of some speakers down a big empty community hall (upstairs from my studio).

Had he been clear that he wanted an authentic sounding recording I would have approached it differently. I asked him from the get-go. He's not great at articulating his ideas and he's a moving target, but generally a nice guy and a good client, so I want to help him.

I need to take these already recorded (and clear/defined sounding) tracks and move back in time with them.
Old 27th June 2009
  #6
TYY
Gear Addict
 
TYY's Avatar
 

One mic on the drums. With lots of room in it. Not enough room, and the tracks are already done? Try to use limiting to bring out some of the room. Tape sim or saturation on the track. High pass and/or low pass as needed to narrow the freq response and you should be pretty close.
Old 27th June 2009
  #7
Just throwing ideas out there but send a drum submix (or instrumental mix) to an old guitar tube amp and mic it as well as miking the room if you have one, then blend it in with the original.
Old 27th June 2009
  #8
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Those are some good ideas. My first thought was eq/comping but I have tried that and ending up with just a thin sounding modern recording. A combo of that and the gtr amp idea is something I may try.
Old 28th June 2009
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by los marbles View Post
I'm working on a project for a guy who is heavily into old 50's, 60's rockabilly. I would have like to track everyone together but he has great difficulty singing with a band and the guitarist is sending his tracks via the net.

Anyway, I tracked the drums and bass, put together a monitor mix with the guitarist's file and after much editing, put his vocal over top. It sounds quite good and I'm happy with it in the sense that I captured everything well and made him sound like he can sing in time.

However, he loves the sounds of his old records and wants then to sound closer to those recordings.

It was recorded with PT, using good (API) pres, ribbons on the drums, bass is both DI and mic'ed.

What are some techniques for "retrofying" this?

I was thinking of playing the mix on some speakers and tracking that into a cassette deck via microphones, and mixing that in with the track, but I would think the tape speed wouldn't be perfect and weird phasing would occur.

Any thoughts on this or other ideas?
Do a different project. If he's into rockabilly but he can't sing with a band he's hopeless. Foist the idiot off on some other poor fool - who you REALLY dislike.

If you really want to go ahead - and you think you can get this dweeb to actually sing with the band I can tell you how it was done, but me, I wouldn't bother - souinds like a royal trainwreck waiting to happen.

BTW, forget the cassette deck.
Forget PT - it ain't gonna happen.
You need to track live into an Ampex or equivalent mono, stereo, or 3 track 1/4 inch reel to reel machine at 15 ips.

BTW - yes, I'm an old guy and I grew up in Oklahoma in the '50s and '60s. I know how those old records were made.
Old 28th June 2009
  #10
Here for the gear
 

the best aproach for this, would have been to record it an old fashion way, few mics, vintage models, a bit of distortion....all of that
but theres no reason why you couldnt give it the old treatment in the mix:

important: this is not a list what you should do, but what you could try...

drums:
find a mic (track / audio file) that captured a nice overall sound of the drums, pass it through a tape emulator (mcdsp analog channel 2 is very good), give it sum distortion, use it as your main sound, use few mics for re-enforcement, make you kick drum more clicky than bassy, add plate verb to your snare, make cymbals and crashes hissy.

ultimatly run all the audio files individualy through tape emulation plugins,

the bass is a important one, because although in old records its not very subby, it still has a strong sound, might be cool to run it through tube stuff.

make thin guitar sounds, make them clip, but not digitally.

for vocals, it really depends of the vibe of the track,

but use plate verbs, they were used all the time.

you could record silence of a vinyl to get sum hiss and crackle, and add that to your mix.

you could also be radical with your panning, drums on one side guitars other.....
obviously depends on what kinda instrumentation you have and arrangement.


give that a try, hope this helps,
send us a copy of the song for listening and more ideas

get youself a time machine and go back in time to an old studio!!!! lol

good luck
Old 28th June 2009
  #11
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

mix to 7.5 ips. Mix mono - or at least very nearly mono.

I've done similar things or movies with amp farm. Mix into amp farm and SEVERELY EQ the output so it sounds right.

Without tracking it right you are going to have to go down teh creative crap route....much harder in my opinion.

And a note on tracking - back int he day it was about playing it how it sounds - no trickery on drums afterwards. you want the cymbal quieter? you hit it softer.... etc.

More distant drums? move em back (or get Jim reeves in heh)

older rooms, older guitars, amps and drums, older methods of playing etc etc. You've got a job on your hand.

And what's wrong with wanting that sound? It's a GREAT sound despite you thinking the punchy way is best.... I think he's got a strong idea for what he wants!!!
Old 28th June 2009
  #12
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although it was multi miked, I did a session recently where we have ribbons on OH and Hats. 57's on snare and toms miked at about 18 inches away and a m88tg on the kick about 4 feet out. Bunch of rooms too. All into 1073 modules with some 33609 and 2254 comps here and there....

The drums were heavily padded with toilet paper... HEAVILY! we tried gels, wallets, tape. The toilet paper was the winner. the sound is awesome. a real throwback to a beatlesesque type of drum sound that is just pumping and gritty.

a great success on that session.
Old 28th June 2009
  #13
Deleted User
Guest
Surprised nobody has mentioned convolution reverbs (unless I missed it...).


I had a tune recently that we wanted to sound kinda like 40's Duke Ellington recordings. But not full-on gramaphone sound, so to speak.

What really seemed to seal the deal, besides the other obvious EQ, panning and arrangement stuff, was putting submixes, and then the ENTIRE mix through an Altiverb impulse of a big ball room. By playing with the stereo speaker 'placement' in Altiverb, the eq and the wet/dry mix, you can get a pretty decent 'band in a room' illusion.

And the wet/dry control lets you dial in just a little of the modern 'punch'.

worth a shot.

** should also mention we did NOT do this treatment to the lead vocal. It went straight to the main 'non altiverb' mix, with a bit of verb on the aux send. This way it helped create that "vocalist up front with the rest of the band at the back of the room" sound.
Old 28th June 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Foist the idiot off on some other poor fool - who you REALLY dislike.

If you really want to go ahead - and you think you can get this dweeb to actually sing with the band I can tell you how it was done, but me, I wouldn't bother - souinds like a royal trainwreck waiting to happen.

BTW, forget the cassette deck.
Forget PT - it ain't gonna happen.
You need to track live into an Ampex or equivalent mono, stereo, or 3 track 1/4 inch reel to reel machine at 15 ips.

BTW - yes, I'm an old guy and I grew up in Oklahoma in the '50s and '60s. I know how those old records were made.
I am in a small town and this is a tight community here. Foisting people off is not in my best interest. This is my job and it puts food on the table for my wife and kids. Besides, I have lots (too much) editing experience and can actually make him sound like a singer. He knows the cost involved and after I had "the talk" with him, he was still game.

also..I agree with you that this is not how to make authentic sounding recordings and I wouldn't have approached it with PT had I known he wants them to sound like old recordings. I am a patient man, however I am appealing to GS because I am a little frustrated with him about this sudden change in direction after everything is tracked. He doesn't understand these processes, but I did ask him before we started " do we want this to sound like an old record"? He said "more modern". After hearing an initial mon mix he says "more muffled sounding!" I would have enjoyed fixing my tape machine and using that on this, but I wouldn't have been able to edit his vocal either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley martel View Post
the best aproach for this, would have been to record it an old fashion way, few mics, vintage models, a bit of distortion....all of that
but theres no reason why you couldnt give it the old treatment in the mix:

important: this is not a list what you should do, but what you could try...

drums:
find a mic (track / audio file) that captured a nice overall sound of the drums, pass it through a tape emulator (mcdsp analog channel 2 is very good), give it sum distortion, use it as your main sound, use few mics for re-enforcement, make you kick drum more clicky than bassy, add plate verb to your snare, make cymbals and crashes hissy.

ultimatly run all the audio files individualy through tape emulation plugins,

the bass is a important one, because although in old records its not very subby, it still has a strong sound, might be cool to run it through tube stuff.

make thin guitar sounds, make them clip, but not digitally.

for vocals, it really depends of the vibe of the track,

but use plate verbs, they were used all the time.

you could record silence of a vinyl to get sum hiss and crackle, and add that to your mix.

you could also be radical with your panning, drums on one side guitars other.....
obviously depends on what kinda instrumentation you have and arrangement.


give that a try, hope this helps,
send us a copy of the song for listening and more ideas

get youself a time machine and go back in time to an old studio!!!! lol

good luck
Thanks a lot for those ideas, I will post some tracks tomorrow evening to get more ideas from GSers. I have tried doing this with plugs a few years ago (making a vintage sounding recording) and I wasn't very successful. Probably lack of skill on my part. I find the tape sat plugs only do so much. Love the idea of recording recording vinyl noise.

Phil Spectre used to create his sound by playing the mix into a mic and unifying the results. I may explore this too and play the results here when I get around to doing that. I have a large reverberant room to do this in to get a natural room sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Without tracking it right you are going to have to go down teh creative crap route....much harder in my opinion.
Could agree more...hence my dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
And what's wrong with wanting that sound? It's a GREAT sound despite you thinking the punchy way is best.... I think he's got a strong idea for what he wants!!!
I agree with this too...I just wish I knew this before tracking. I love the sound of tape/tubes and rooms. I don't have that kind of facility but I could have made some arrangements. I have nice rooms, but I use PT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by passenger View Post
although it was multi miked, I did a session recently where we have ribbons on OH and Hats. 57's on snare and toms miked at about 18 inches away and a m88tg on the kick about 4 feet out. Bunch of rooms too. All into 1073 modules with some 33609 and 2254 comps here and there....

The drums were heavily padded with toilet paper... HEAVILY! we tried gels, wallets, tape. The toilet paper was the winner. the sound is awesome. a real throwback to a beatlesesque type of drum sound that is just pumping and gritty.

a great success on that session.
I did use some TP on the drums and MUCH tuning, but I was going for a sound pre-beatles (early americana) with the drums being tuned higher with some ring to them. My drums aren't the best. I don't have a high end studio, more mid level. My community is small and my clients pay out of their own pockets for the most part, so it makes no sense to cater to a market that isn't there. I am busy because I am $40.00/hr. This town can't afford a facility with studers, U47s, PTHD, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeBasement View Post
Surprised nobody has mentioned convolution reverbs (unless I missed it...).


I had a tune recently that we wanted to sound kinda like 40's Duke Ellington recordings. But not full-on gramaphone sound, so to speak.

What really seemed to seal the deal, besides the other obvious EQ, panning and arrangement stuff, was putting submixes, and then the ENTIRE mix through an Altiverb impulse of a big ball room. By playing with the stereo speaker 'placement' in Altiverb, the eq and the wet/dry mix, you can get a pretty decent 'band in a room' illusion.

And the wet/dry control lets you dial in just a little of the modern 'punch'.

worth a shot.

** should also mention we did NOT do this treatment to the lead vocal. It went straight to the main 'non altiverb' mix, with a bit of verb on the aux send. This way it helped create that "vocalist up front with the rest of the band at the back of the room" sound.
I run PT mix 6.4. Did they make conv revs for those? Did the old version of Altiverb (vs5 I think) work with impulses? I emailed them to see if they do.

Thanks everyone for all your help so far.
Old 30th June 2009
  #15
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Hamburg58's Avatar
 

One overhead, one kick. both dynamics. Tuning the drums does way more than any kind of recording trick any of us can think of. It's very important to tune the drums like they did in the 50's and 60's. Try and use similar sized drums, no clear skins, all coated... Old cymbals if possible... Two dynamic mics... A room mic too perhaps but that's it....

Artists have to understand that to get a sound they like, they have to do some work too. Tuning into a certain tone they like is their job... Your job is to record it best possible. Tuning the drums, huge deal. Toms higher almost jazzy... Snare higher.... Kick tighter, stick two strips of felt across the head of the kick one on the resonant head and one on the batter head.. No holes in the kick.

Mono drums are great, but remember back then a lot of times the drums were played live with the rest of the track.. Sometimes with panning etc with vocals etc, you can still pick up the drum sound near the vocals... If in mono different story. A lot of times this is how a room mic will help, not to get a room sound but to emulate that sound of tracking vocals while drums are going....

Also other than drums, if they want retro, don't let them use headphones. Hook up some elephant or PA speakers and let them track/overdub the vocals live to speakers... No headphones.... the sound you get from having that wash of playback with the vocal overdubs will also add to a lot of the retro feel..
Old 30th June 2009
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
corworld's Avatar
 

This rockabilly stuff is fetish recording. They want to use original equipment from Ampex tape machines and RCA mics to big fin Chevys and brill cream. I hear you wanting to make the job work but using any modern techniques is going to be met with hostility.

Stay true to the tools available at the time, and work within those limitations. It is freeing to leave PT behind some times.
Old 30th June 2009
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley martel View Post
the best aproach for this, would have been to record it an old fashion way, few mics, vintage models, a bit of distortion....all of that
but theres no reason why you couldnt give it the old treatment in the mix:

important: this is not a list what you should do, but what you could try...

drums:
find a mic (track / audio file) that captured a nice overall sound of the drums, pass it through a tape emulator (mcdsp analog channel 2 is very good), give it sum distortion, use it as your main sound, use few mics for re-enforcement, make you kick drum more clicky than bassy, add plate verb to your snare, make cymbals and crashes hissy.

ultimatly run all the audio files individualy through tape emulation plugins,

the bass is a important one, because although in old records its not very subby, it still has a strong sound, might be cool to run it through tube stuff.

make thin guitar sounds, make them clip, but not digitally.

for vocals, it really depends of the vibe of the track,

but use plate verbs, they were used all the time.

you could record silence of a vinyl to get sum hiss and crackle, and add that to your mix.

you could also be radical with your panning, drums on one side guitars other.....
obviously depends on what kinda instrumentation you have and arrangement.


give that a try, hope this helps,
send us a copy of the song for listening and more ideas

get youself a time machine and go back in time to an old studio!!!! lol

good luck
This guy has no idea what he's talking aboutl. Kick drum more clicky than bassy? Sonny, we're not talking about thrash metal here!

Traditional setups used one mic in front of the kick, usually with the front head. Most times it was something like a Shure SM55 "Elvis Mic". There would be one or two overheads and, if you were REALLY lucky, a mic on the snare, usually a Unidyne III (SM57). Overheads would usually be RCA ribbons or sometimes U47s. Sometimes the entire kit would be taken by one U47 about 3 feet in front.

Oh, one other thing - you need to track to tape. Forget "tape emulation", it's a sham.

Most of the old rockabilly recordings were mixed live direct to an Ampex mono, 2 track, or 3 track machine, 15 IPS. Use another old Ampex mono machine for the slapback.

Oh, btw, most traditional rockabilly guitar sounds were quite clean, sometimes even recorded direct. There were notable exceptions of course, such as Duane Eddy and Lonnie Mack, who used Magnatone amplifiers with the tube true vibrato (not Fender style tremolo) circuit. Some also used Fender. By the early '60s some guitarists used early tape echos such as the tube Echoplex and Fender tape echo. The Fender (stand alone) reverb unit was also a staple. Some early to mid '60s guitarists were also using Ampeg amps like the Reverberocket and Gemini series. On the few records that featured obviously distorted guitar it was achieved by slashing the speaker cones with razor blades.

Oh almost forgot - everybody performs together, NO OVERDUBS. That means the room has to sound at least reasonable, and the singer has to be able to perform with the band without screwing up. Everybody must rehearse and know their parts. Screwing around in the studio didn't come in till the hippies!

And panning? There was no panning. You can't pan on a mono recording.

And soory, no, plate verbs were not used "all the time" - they were either acoustical echo chambers or tape slapback. Period.
Old 30th June 2009
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
mix to 7.5 ips. Mix mono - or at least very nearly mono.

I've done similar things or movies with amp farm. Mix into amp farm and SEVERELY EQ the output so it sounds right.

Without tracking it right you are going to have to go down teh creative crap route....much harder in my opinion.

And a note on tracking - back int he day it was about playing it how it sounds - no trickery on drums afterwards. you want the cymbal quieter? you hit it softer.... etc.

More distant drums? move em back (or get Jim reeves in heh)

older rooms, older guitars, amps and drums, older methods of playing etc etc. You've got a job on your hand.

And what's wrong with wanting that sound? It's a GREAT sound despite you thinking the punchy way is best.... I think he's got a strong idea for what he wants!!!
AMP FARM???? You gotta be kidding!
Old 30th June 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by passenger View Post
although it was multi miked, I did a session recently where we have ribbons on OH and Hats. 57's on snare and toms miked at about 18 inches away and a m88tg on the kick about 4 feet out. Bunch of rooms too. All into 1073 modules with some 33609 and 2254 comps here and there....

The drums were heavily padded with toilet paper... HEAVILY! we tried gels, wallets, tape. The toilet paper was the winner. the sound is awesome. a real throwback to a beatlesesque type of drum sound that is just pumping and gritty.

a great success on that session.
Although the Beatles were part of the English "Rocker" movement, they were by no means a proper rockabilly band.
Old 30th June 2009
  #20
what about if you ask mr. Rockabilly? he is here.

Admiral James T.

http://www.dalastudios.com/

he did the peacocks and several other neo-rockabily-things.
Old 30th June 2009
  #21
Gear Addict
 

I think you could pull this back from protools land.

Dunno what gear you've got, but if it was me, I'd play a basic mix of the entire track into that big room you mentioned, THEN lose most of the drum mic's. Then I'd send every track out to a stereo 3 head reel to reel, and back in again with one pass. That way you should have nice tapey individual sounds, still in sync

Mix in mono, onto tape. I'd try and use quite a bit of the re-amped room sound in there as well. The sound he's after would rely on a large amount of bleed and room sound, so maybe try working on a buss of the track minus vocal, rather than focussing too much on the individual instruments beyond basic levels and a bit of slapback here and there.

I'm sure tape emulation plugins are great for more modern stuff, but if he wants a properly grimy old school sound, it probably does have to be tape. I picked up a little 2 track with off head monitoring for £40...which does the job great.
Old 30th June 2009
  #22
Gear Head
 

izotope Trash is pretty good and dirtying these up....if used sparingly.
Old 30th June 2009
  #23
Again, if you want it to sound old you have to do it the old way - which is easy for the engineer but totally unforgiving for the musicians. Otherwise the best you can hope for is a "modern rockabilly" fake vintage sound like Queen's "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" or the Stray Cats.

Incidentally, don't worry too much about not having a great drum kit. Most of the kits used by rockabilly bands back then weren't all that great, either. Incidentally, a lot of those rockabilly hits were played with brushes, not sticks.
Old 30th June 2009
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
izotope Trash is pretty good and dirtying these up....if used sparingly.
NO, No, no.......
Old 30th June 2009
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
what about if you ask mr. Rockabilly? he is here.

Admiral James T.

http://www.dalastudios.com/

he did the peacocks and several other neo-rockabily-things.
What? Some guy from Germany knows more about this than someone who grew up in Oklahoma in the '50s and '60s? My info comes direct from the small studios in the Oklahoma City area - home to guys like Conway Twitty and many more. I was just a little kid learning to play guitar at the time, but I was there!

I don't get how some guy from Europe gets the title "Mr. Rockabilly"!
Old 30th June 2009
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
This guy has no idea what he's talking aboutl. Kick drum more clicky than bassy? Sonny, we're not talking about thrash metal here!

Traditional setups used one mic in front of the kick, usually with the front head. Most times it was something like a Shure SM55 "Elvis Mic". There would be one or two overheads and, if you were REALLY lucky, a mic on the snare, usually a Unidyne III (SM57). Overheads would usually be RCA ribbons or sometimes U47s. Sometimes the entire kit would be taken by one U47 about 3 feet in front.

Oh, one other thing - you need to track to tape. Forget "tape emulation", it's a sham.

Most of the old rockabilly recordings were mixed live direct to an Ampex mono, 2 track, or 3 track machine, 15 IPS. Use another old Ampex mono machine for the slapback.

Oh, btw, most traditional rockabilly guitar sounds were quite clean, sometimes even recorded direct. There were notable exceptions of course, such as Duane Eddy and Lonnie Mack, who used Magnatone amplifiers with the tube true vibrato (not Fender style tremolo) circuit. Some also used Fender. By the early '60s some guitarists used early tape echos such as the tube Echoplex and Fender tape echo. The Fender (stand alone) reverb unit was also a staple. Some early to mid '60s guitarists were also using Ampeg amps like the Reverberocket and Gemini series. On the few records that featured obviously distorted guitar it was achieved by slashing the speaker cones with razor blades.

Oh almost forgot - everybody performs together, NO OVERDUBS. That means the room has to sound at least reasonable, and the singer has to be able to perform with the band without screwing up. Everybody must rehearse and know their parts. Screwing around in the studio didn't come in till the hippies!

And panning? There was no panning. You can't pan on a mono recording.

And soory, no, plate verbs were not used "all the time" - they were either acoustical echo chambers or tape slapback. Period.

hey man thanks for being so NICE!
this guy is asking for sum retro ideas,
IN RETROSPECT I DIDNT SEE ROKABILLY, I ONLY SAW 50'S AND 60'S

so, son your right to correct on that point that sum of the stuff i said is not rockabilly,
but please don't tell me that i dont know what im talking about.
i mostly do funk retro recordings and not trash metal, no,no,no and these tips that i gave are mostly taken from what i use then,
as i said i didnt say that he should do that, but that he should try that.....

...tape machines are expensive and not always in the budget..... there some really good plugs out there, dont underestimate them, not my fault you cant use them properly,
plus you dont have to replicate exactly, its your own interpretation aswell...be original...
as of the track hes already recorded it, so no point giving tips on recording....
(but 55's and u47's are the way to go! your right )
plate verbs are cool..... real cool.....why no try them, **** people did use them a lot in that era, maybe not rockabilly....but then again why not try something else.

give your opinion man, but dont be bold and arsy about it......

i've seen your other comments, man you sour (specially about that guy in germany that knows about the same stuff ...haha dont judge... you dont know him and dont know what hes done )
Old 30th June 2009
  #27
Gear Addict
 
Admiral James T.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
What? Some guy from Germany knows more about this than someone who grew up in Oklahoma in the '50s and '60s? My info comes direct from the small studios in the Oklahoma City area - home to guys like Conway Twitty and many more. I was just a little kid learning to play guitar at the time, but I was there!

I don't get how some guy from Europe gets the title "Mr. Rockabilly"!
George just gave me that title ... I don't really care about it.
But let me tell you this: this whole rock'n'roll thing started in the USA some 60 years ago, and we all know that it's almost everywhere now, not only in Oklahoma City. I neither call myself an expert nor Mr Rockabilly. But I started recording in 1989 and I was always interested in 50's/60's recording techniques. Until now I have recorded quite a few rock'n'roll, rockabilly, country, western swing and rhythm'n'blues acts, among others. I was born in the 70's, but I do know how the 50's sounded like, and I'm getting closer everyday.
Besides that, you're right with your other posts!
And by the way, I'm from Switzerland, not Germany.
Old 30th June 2009
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral James T. View Post
George just gave me that title ... I don't really care about it.
But let me tell you this: this whole rock'n'roll thing started in the USA some 60 years ago, and we all know that it's almost everywhere now, not only in Oklahoma City. I neither call myself an expert nor Mr Rockabilly. But I started recording in 1989 and I was always interested in 50's/60's recording techniques. Until then I have recorded quite a few rock'n'roll, rockabilly, country, western swing and rhythm'n'blues acts, among others. I was born in the 70's, but I do know how the 50's sounded like, and I'm getting closer everyday.
Besides that, you're right with your other posts!
And by the way, I'm from Switzerland, not Germany.
No offense meant to you. George just kinda pissed me off a bit, especially after reading through a whole RAFT of people who obviously don't know anything older than their ProTools rig......

My current tape machines are both Swiss, although I'm probably getting an American mixdown deck soon, as I have a chance for a killer deal on an MCI and my A77 needs some work - and is only a semi-pro deck, 7.5 and 15 ips.

I tend to be a bit of a nut about old sounds, old tone, old technology, and old songs....... probably because I'm old too......

I do have 24 tracks of digital, but I hate it. Doesn't really sound right and the workflow drives me up a tree......
Old 30th June 2009
  #29
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Admiral James T.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
No offense meant to you. George just kinda pissed me off a bit, especially after reading through a whole RAFT of people who obviously don't know anything older than their ProTools rig......

My current tape machines are both Swiss, although I'm probably getting an American mixdown deck soon, as I have a chance for a killer deal on an MCI and my A77 needs some work - and is only a semi-pro deck, 7.5 and 15 ips.

I tend to be a bit of a nut about old sounds, old tone, old technology, and old songs....... probably because I'm old too......

I do have 24 tracks of digital, but I hate it. Doesn't really sound right and the workflow drives me up a tree......
At least George didn't want to give any tips on something he might not know. He knows me, and he knows what I'm doin', so he brought me into this thread. He probably didn't read himself through the whole thing - I don't think he wanted to put me on top of anybody.

An interesting fact over here is that I know quite a few "older" engineers and musicians, people who started back in the 60's, and they're all very much into new technology, they just can't understand why I'm so much into that "old crap". I got lotsa old guitars, Teisco, Kay, Kingston, Gretsch, old mics, a bunch of tape machines and so on. They kinda hate it, who knows why. Let 'em have Line6 and PT.

Hey, I'm mostly working digital as well, cuz I do also record "modern" stuff, and not all the bands have the money to pay analog. But I'm slowly movin' away from it, cuz you automatically make more "music" when recording analog. Me thinks.
Old 30th June 2009
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral James T. View Post
At least George didn't want to give any tips on something he might not know. He knows me, and he knows what I'm doin', so he brought me into this thread. He probably didn't read himself through the whole thing - I don't think he wanted to put me on top of anybody.

An interesting fact over here is that I know quite a few "older" engineers and musicians, people who started back in the 60's, and they're all very much into new technology, they just can't understand why I'm so much into that "old crap". I got lotsa old guitars, Teisco, Kay, Kingston, Gretsch, old mics, a bunch of tape machines and so on. They kinda hate it, who knows why. Let 'em have Line6 and PT.

Hey, I'm mostly working digital as well, cuz I do also record "modern" stuff, and not all the bands have the money to pay analog. But I'm slowly movin' away from it, cuz you automatically make more "music" when recording analog. Me thinks.
I think we have a lot in common - although I don't understand what people these days see in Teisco guitars - those were TERRIBLE - they sold 'em in toy stores, not music shops! Kingstons too! Kays were a bit better, at least some of them, but their really low end stuff you could get as prizes for selling boxes of greeting cards or garden seed! The really cool cheap guitars back then were the Harmonys and the Supro/Nationals. And of course the Danelectros, but those have become fetish guitars now, thanks to Jimmy Page. I used to go to flea markets in the '70s and buy Danelectros for $5 or $10 and sell 'em for $40 or $50 and think I was making out like a bandit! For awhile in the late '60s I had a Domino that was identical to a hollow body Teisco Del Ray - I hated it - horrible wobble bar, bridge wouldn't stay in place and the pickups sounded bad and squealed...... There were at least a half dozen different names that were all the same guitars from that one Asian factory. I remember some of them had a metal pickguard that was a serious shock hazard with the amps of the day that had ungrounded power cords..... In my first band I had to stand on rubber mats in the garage in my leather soled cowboy boots so I wouldn't get zapped by my amp! (I had a Strat then, but it was an old Danelectro amp. Later got a Standel....) Ah, those were the days!
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