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how to get the pumping effect on the stereo bus?
Old 18th August 2005
  #1
how to get the pumping effect on the stereo bus?

hi folks

i've recently had a customer that wanted to have a pumping effect on his track. it's this effect you can hear a lot on french house, e.g. eric prydz "call on me".

when i tried to do it at the mastering stage, compressing without the sidechain i lost the kick. it was pumping, but not the way sounding good. with the sidechain having a low cut and 2-3 db gainreduction i didn't get the desired effect. into the es-8's sidechain i fed the stereo signal with a low cut to prevent that the low frequencies from the kick makes the unit to react and compress.

my mastering setup is/was: hedd -> massive passive -> pendulum es-8 -> hedd

what do i do wrong?
Old 18th August 2005
  #2
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Jamstudio's Avatar
 

did you tried a multiband compressor

Remco
Old 18th August 2005
  #3
i use a multiband compressor of the finalizer just slightly, but that doesn't give me the desired pumping. how would you do that with a mb comp?
Old 18th August 2005
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz

what do i do wrong?

Its done in the mix not at the mastering stage.


See if he can give you the stems of the mix and work it that way.

Also some comps do it better than others.
Old 18th August 2005
  #5
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syra's Avatar
I agree with thrill. Its a mix thing.

Also, your approach is right. You would compress everything around the kick (and maybe snare sometimes) without sending too much of the kick in the compressor.
Old 18th August 2005
  #6
in this case i do everything from the mix to the mastering. so i already have all single tracks.

that means that i should buss all tracks together except the kick. put on this buss a comp with the kick in the sidechain. and finally mix the kick and the buss together again.

i think taking out the snare (like the kick) is reasonable if you have it on the 2nd and 4th beat. every hit (like ghost notes, fills, variations, etc) in between should then be on another track that goes into the compressed bus.

i own an urei 1178, pendulum es-8 and a pair of distressors. the 1178 has no sc, so this i can't use. which one of the other two would you use?
Old 18th August 2005
  #7
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syra's Avatar
Are you sure the Dists have sidechain inputs?

If you're in PT try the BF1176 plug...works great for that effect.
Old 18th August 2005
  #8
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I did some published french house remixes in the past year. The better way is use daw fade in PLUS a master compression (dynasone works well). No sidechain at all.
But be careful, you must do fades to reach a good effect, because compression effect is not enought.
The principle is simple. When you have kick the other tracks are silenced with fade for a while (milliseconds). Fade is parabolic. Do fade for fx tracks too. You must bouce all tracks before starting (effect send and returns) because ALL tracks have a small amount of fade. If you listen carefully prydz you can notice than kicks is near alone (only a small little amount of pad).
After you have completed this procedure, dynasone is a sort of glue. You can put it in the first master slot.
Old 18th August 2005
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leban
I did some published french house remixes in the past year. The better way is use daw fade in PLUS a master compression (dynasone works well). No sidechain at all.
But be careful, you must do fades to reach a good effect, because compression effect is not enought.
The principle is simple. When you have kick the other tracks are silenced with fade for a while (milliseconds). Fade is parabolic. Do fade for fx tracks too. You must bouce all tracks before starting (effect send and returns) because ALL tracks have a small amount of fade. If you listen carefully prydz you can notice than kicks is near alone (only a small little amount of pad).
After you have completed this procedure, dynasone is a sort of glue. You can put it in the first master slot.
A fade at every Kick?

That seems like a brutal insane amount of editing...!!

I hope it got you the effect you wanted!!

Respect
Old 18th August 2005
  #10
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gainreduction's Avatar
 

You do it by sidechaining a compressor to the kick so everytime the kick hits, the comp squeezes the crap out of the mix. Adjust the releasetime on the comp so it pumps with a groove. For a person like myself who is not into the dance-thing, it sounds annoying... I get nervous listening to it. But it's part of that style and that's how it's done. Forget everything you've learned about compression and let it pump
Old 18th August 2005
  #11
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Absolutely key in this type of music is making sure the BASS and the KICK are not interfering with each other in the mix BEFORE you start strapping bus compressors over it etc. Otherwise you will be indulging in long and fruitless hours of low-end 'tail-chasing', ie going nowhere fast. Read threads passim ad infinitum on which goes above which (frequency-wise) but in my experience either can work fine as long as you know what you're doing.

Can you post clips?
Old 18th August 2005
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by syra
Are you sure the Dists have sidechain inputs?

If you're in PT try the BF1176 plug...works great for that effect.
good question

they have a connection for making pairs and i thought you may use them as sidechains. but i'm not sure anymore.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
That seems like a brutal insane amount of editing...!!
in protools it's very easy to copy and duplicate automation. though now i'm using logic 6.4.3 and it's a pain in the ass working with automation. nevertheless i'll try this way.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction
You do it by sidechaining a compressor to the kick so everytime the kick hits, the comp squeezes the crap out of the mix.
i tried this with my es-8 but it sucks up the bass.
Old 19th August 2005
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
A fade at every Kick?

That seems like a brutal insane amount of editing...!!

I hope it got you the effect you wanted!!

Respect
French mix is loop based music. So it is very ripetitive.
In a couple of hours an expert mixer can bounce tracks and fix all the song.
Prydz has few tracks (a sample, a pad, a bass, a groove).
You have few things, but they have to sound great.
Benassi is the same. A bass, a kick, a voice, some reverb tracks.
I counted looped-tracks used in original m gray 'weekend' because I did a remix for them. They were 8 (!). And 15 seconds long! With 8 track and your daw you can do everything in less than 15 minutes.

This is the procedure, you can 'emulate' it with compressor, sidechain compressors, limiter, multiband gear but it is not the real thing because you need digital precision that only an audio-fade can do.
Old 19th August 2005
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by leban
but it is not the real thing because you need digital precision that only an audio-fade can do.
i'll do that once and then i'll keep the automations as a preset track for all next customers

that's horrible work to do if you have to do that everytime and in logic i'm not sure if you can copy autmation data from one track to another
Old 19th August 2005
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz
i'll do that once and then i'll keep the automations as a preset track for all next customers

that's horrible work to do if you have to do that everytime and in logic i'm not sure if you can copy autmation data from one track to another
yea, I understand...
For example I grab automation from other song I made.
Old 19th August 2005
  #16
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TedF's Avatar
 

Maybe I'm missing something quite obvious..... why don't you guys use an overdriven optical compressor with medium attack and short release?
The sound that you have described and that extreme effect is not too difficult to achieve and more musical than forcing the automation to do it. (Maybe that's the point!)

Trying to use an 1176 or similar will just give you distortion, and working out a really successful filter to drive a sidechain is a project for a month, not during a mix session.

But then, my experience is only with Rock and roll, and MOR....
Old 19th August 2005
  #17
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Darius van H's Avatar
 

Try this:

bounce the track down with the kick much too loud and reverse (so it plays backwards)

Run it thru a cheap-ass DBX comp like a 266 (backwards!).........

Record the result and then reverse it again.

You'll get a crazy compression effect 'cause the music is ducking before the kick!....so it kinda sucks into each kick...(make sure the release is not too fast - your release is your attack time - i think )

...it'll take a lot of tweaking 'cause obviously you can't hear the effect in realtime, and you may not need to do it over the whole mix....like i said, i think you'll get best results with a cheap, fast, slappy comp' like a DBX..........enjoy!
Old 19th August 2005
  #18
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toolskid's Avatar
 

if you're rocking ITB - compressor bank keyed from a trigger track can be really good (playing with the 'bite' control as well as the attack (med) and release(fast) is essential). Also, you dont always have to pump all the elements to achieve this effect. OTB I've got good results with a 33609, a c2 and a really cheap DBX comp (can't remember the model no.. not a 160 tho).

If you have to do this post-mix, you'll ideally need to work from the stems
Old 22nd August 2005
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedF
Maybe I'm missing something quite obvious..... why don't you guys use an overdriven optical compressor with medium attack and short release?
The sound that you have described and that extreme effect is not too difficult to achieve and more musical than forcing the automation to do it. (Maybe that's the point!)

Trying to use an 1176 or similar will just give you distortion, and working out a really successful filter to drive a sidechain is a project for a month, not during a mix session.

But then, my experience is only with Rock and roll, and MOR....
Because in french compression you need 60db compression and more to reach a good effect. The excursion is very fast and very deep. In benassi for every kick you have same millisecond of... nothing. Open the wav file... you can sample kick in the middle of the song!
In daw automation is easy. THEN you can add some standard compression to get it musical.
Old 21st March 2012
  #20
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Wow...awesome thread!
Old 22nd March 2012
  #21
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andychamp's Avatar
The "overeasy" DBXs (160x & 166) are the quintessential pumpers in my book. There's something just right about their attack and release times & curves.
Feed them the whole mix, with the kick feeding the key input through a delay, to adjust the groove. The point is to delay a hit by ALMOST 1/4 note, so the mix is already ducked when the next kick hits.
You can also key the ducking from a "ghost" kick that doesn't appear in the mix, so you can fade out your kick and still keep the pumping.
Voilà: Instant French House!
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