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Still not getting phase
Old 26th June 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Still not getting phase

When using 2 mics on a guitar i see a lot of people talk about putting a 57 on the grill and then a 121 or 414 or something 6 inches or so off the grill. I've been doing the 57/121 combo and with the mics picking up sound 6 inches apart how can this possibly be in phase? Lately ive been moving the 57 back 5-6 inches until the phase is perfect or just phase aligning in protools after i've recorded both mics to separate tracks. I feel like im missing something here though. Do they not have to start at the same time but can still be in phase similar to a close mic on snare and OH's? If so what am I looking for here? If i trust my ear then phase aligning in protools seems to work the best but that being said I'm still looking for a better guitar tone.
Old 26th June 2009
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Adib's Avatar
 

What your currently doing is correct, and if if seems to work it's all good. There are two elements to phasing, one is polarity and one is time domain based (there was a recent thread about this on here). 'Polarity' phasing is when you have a signal traveling in opposite directions to microphones equal distance from the source. I.e. top and bottom snare mics. In this case most of the time simply flipping the phase on one track will bring the two signals in phase with each other. The other type of phasing (what your talking about) is simply a case of the signal reaching the microphones at different times, therefore some time based adjustments need to be made in order to bring the signals in phase, as you are doing. As a general rule, I say sound travels at 1 millisecond per foot. Therefore if mic 1 is 1 ft closer to the source than mic 2, the track for mic 2 would in theory need bringing forward by 1 ms in PT. The speed of sound depends on humidity/air density etc. but this rule generally works and is easy to remember.

Maybe if your looking for a better tone look at the guitar/cab or room first. Adjusting the phasing can work, and it is not always necessary or best to be perfectly in phase, whatever sounds right to you is right.
Old 26th June 2009
  #3
Gear Nut
 

In 'Tools is my way too. Also rocking the '57 and R121 combo myself, great aren't they?

The answer is no, they won't be in absolute phase if one is further than the other from the sound source, but that could be half the fun, couldn't it? I tend to like aligning in 'Tools when using two mic's though, unless both are right up on the grill together, in that case I'll chuck on some cans and move 'em until they sound 'right'. Otherwise, I slap a 'Time Adjuster' delay on the closest mic's track in Pro Tools, and play until it sounds good. I'd love to have a couple of Little Labs IBP's, but for the moment, 'Time Adjuster' will have to do.

Best of luck dude.
Old 26th June 2009
  #4
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevedresser83 View Post
If i trust my ear then phase aligning in protools seems to work the best but that being said I'm still looking for a better guitar tone.
At the danger of overstating the obvious: Use your ears.

Here's my method: Have the player play the actual part that will be recorded and adjust the first mic while wearing headphones. Use a loop if you're recording yourself.

If you want to use a second mic then use the same method but keep the first track up so that you hear the combined sound of both mics. This can be somewhat tricky so I highly recommend the Little Labs IBP Phase Alignement tool.

The advantage of using the IPB is that you can adjust both mics on their own first (i.e place it where it sounsd best to your ears) without worrying about the combined signal. Then use the IBP to adjust teh phase between the two mics (done best in one-speaker mono). The IBP is not always necessary, pretty often I like the sound of nboth mics as is and just leave it at that.

Advantages: The sound of the individual mics is not affected by the IBP, should you decide to only use one mic in the mix it will sound exactly lieke you set it up initially.

Learn to hear phase, it's just a matter of practice. After a while you will stop worrying whether a sound is 'phase correct' or not and simply do what sounds best. Very often, phase IS part of what makes a sound exciting so I highly advise against lining up tarcks in PT because it might create more harm than good.

Being in phase is important for gettigng punchy sounds but also remember that not everything can be upfront in a mix.
Old 26th June 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
At the danger of overstating the obvious: Use your ears.

Here's my method: Have the player play the actual part that will be recorded and adjust the first mic while wearing headphones. Use a loop if you're recording yourself.

If you want to use a second mic then use the same method but keep the first track up so that you hear the combined sound of both mics. This can be somewhat tricky so I highly recommend the Little Labs IBP Phase Alignement tool.

The advantage of using the IPB is that you can adjust both mics on their own first (i.e place it where it sounsd best to your ears) without worrying about the combined signal. Then use the IBP to adjust teh phase between the two mics (done best in one-speaker mono). The IBP is not always necessary, pretty often I like the sound of nboth mics as is and just leave it at that.

Advantages: The sound of the individual mics is not affected by the IBP, should you decide to only use one mic in the mix it will sound exactly lieke you set it up initially.

Learn to hear phase, it's just a matter of practice. After a while you will stop worrying whether a sound is 'phase correct' or not and simply do what sounds best. Very often, phase IS part of what makes a sound exciting so I highly advise against lining up tarcks in PT because it might create more harm than good.

Being in phase is important for gettigng punchy sounds but also remember that not everything can be upfront in a mix.

Good info sir thx.
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