The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
CREAM -I'm noticing a lot of their recordings are kind of marginal
Old 3rd July 2013
  #181
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkhawley View Post
it's just not hard to play like that
wow, I think it's hard to play slide like Duane. He was so clean and precise but still retained all the feel. I like Derek Trucks though, he has the Duane thing down. I LOVE Warren Haynes I think he is one of the greatest blues guitar players ever, but on slide he was no Duane. Dicky and Dan Toler were good slide players.

Duane's finest moments on slide were Layla and the Mountain Jam
Old 3rd July 2013
  #182
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
Since Derek Trucks has been mentioned a few times here, dig this:

nice, he was so good at a very young age
Old 3rd July 2013
  #183
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
The period of the finset pop/rock recordings is about 1976-1995. Cream falls well before that...of course the recording is marginal in comparison.

And...I stopped at 95 only due to the fact that public was never delivered masters worth a piss after that...technically, there were some between then and say 2000 in certain circles...but, mostly...the recording quality at the high end is as good or better than it ever was--the consumers will just never know that. A mobile Fidelity SACD of James Taylor from the early 80s pretty well smacks down every master I've bought for a decade, in terms of fidelity in pop/rock. There are still some folks doing jazz work that still has dynamics.

One day, the numbskullz at the labels will realize they can "remaster" the last 20 years of music to sound better by re-un-mastering them. It's funny to me that old recordings are being remastered at 24/192 now, and sound great...but, they're ignoring the past couple of decades where the delivered masters border on negligent and abusive.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
Not sure about that, My father worked for a company called Lotus in the 70s and 80s. They used to have this program similar to Excel it was called '1234' I think. It was 90% assembler and from what I recall, it was written in only a couple years by one person.

From what he has told me, back in his day all the hardcore software was assembler. 200mhz with 16 meg of ram was limiting, they had to make up for the short comings of hardware somehow. But back then people learned coding on punch cards so it was second nature to them I suppose.
This will probably sound conceited, but things have come a long way since then. Lotus 123 was a fairly trivial application compared to our product. Not because they were stupid, but because they were working within such a constrained system. They didn't have to deal with huge amount of graphics processing, user interface issues, it was all single threaded and local whereas a product like ours consists of tens of processes spread around the network and each one can have tens to a hundred or more individual threads working simultaneously and talking to other processes and external devices and servers at the same time, and it's multi-user, and has to deal with all kinds of media issues, etc... It's just a much bigger world today.


Quote:
I like C++ but I write a lot of embedded stuff so I really like assembler and or C. C++ is a good high level language. It runs fast, it is very easy to master and it at least at one time was the industry standard. I like it better than C# and Objective C.
Well, it's not hard to learn C++ itself, but to do any large scale development in it takes a fair bit of skill because it doesn't prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot, which is the price of higher performance and lower resource usage compared to a higher level language.

I've been doing a fair bit of C# (Silverlight) and Java (Android) lately, and they all have their pros and cons.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #185
Gear Guru
Wow- this thread might have set a record for going the farthest off track. And in this forum that's quite an accomplishment!

That said- I saw Derek Trucks with the Allmans a few year ago and he absolutely killed. That guy can play.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #186
Well, just the other day, Derek said to me, Deano (he always calls me Deano), that C++ language is something else. I really dig it.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #187
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Lotus 123 was a fairly trivial application compared to our product.

I'm not familiar with your product, however everything is pretty much trivial these days unless you develop game engines or graphics kernels which again is all done in assembler.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #188
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
The period of the finset pop/rock recordings is about 1976-1995.
DSOTM ain't bad neither was Physical Graffiti or night at the opera. But early 80s and 90s had some really bad recordings. I would hardly consider any of the grunge era or rap rock stuff good production by any stretch. 80s hair metal and new wave recordings were just as pitiful.

The golden era of recording really doesn't exist if you really dissect it. Every era has some great stuff but just as much bad stuff. Personally I think the best production is from 1969 with the inception of 16 track up till the SSL came out say 1978/79 or so. Few stray recordings are good at the turn of 1980 like Rush and AC/DC but once U2 and RATT came out, it got scary. More thought was put into the videos rather than the studio recordings. Then when sound garden and mudhoney came out production was an afterthought, music was all about sounding bad on purpose at that point. There were some good mid 90s recordings mostly metal though.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #189
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
I'm not familiar with your product, however everything is pretty much trivial these days unless you develop game engines or graphics kernels which again is all done in assembler.
Yeh, right.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #190
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
DSOTM ain't bad neither was Physical Graffiti or night at the opera. But early 80s and 90s had some really bad recordings. I would hardly consider any of the grunge era or rap rock stuff good production by any stretch. 80s hair metal and new wave recordings were just as pitiful.

The golden era of recording really doesn't exist if you really dissect it. Every era has some great stuff but just as much bad stuff. Personally I think the best production is from 1969 with the inception of 16 track up till the SSL came out say 1978/79 or so. Few stray recordings are good at the turn of 1980 like Rush and AC/DC but once U2 and RATT came out, it got scary. More thought was put into the videos rather than the studio recordings. Then when sound garden and mudhoney came out production was an afterthought, music was all about sounding bad on purpose at that point. There were some good mid 90s recordings mostly metal though.
Sound Garden? Yeeeahhhh....nah. Superunknown is a great sounding album production wise with killer songs. We all have different taste, but sometimes I gotta wonder what the hell Im hearing compared to others!!
Old 3rd July 2013
  #191
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodittydada View Post
Sound Garden? Yeeeahhhh....nah. Superunknown is a great sounding album production wise with killer songs.
oh love soundgarden, huge fan here. Cornell is one if not the best singers ever

But the sound? little rough IMO but that's the point to sound grungy and underground. Superunknwon is not terrible, down on the upside is a little better but the earlly stuff like loud love, motorfinger, Ultramega are weak. First rage record, first alice record, undertow are good for grunge era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodittydada View Post
We all have different taste, but sometimes I gotta wonder what the hell Im hearing compared to others!!
with you there, I think cream records sound great, but seems like people on this thread disagree
Old 3rd July 2013
  #192
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
nice, he was so good at a very young age
What really blows me away is how developed his sound already was: There's none of the 'great technique for such a young guy though he needs some more mileage'- syndrom that most ANY musician displays at that age.

I suspect that he went through that phase before he reached even his teens!

Music isn't a competition but I really feel sorry for that second guitar player in the clip. Notice how desperate and forced he's sounding as opposed to Derek's natural flow and calm but authorative stage presence.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #193
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Well, just the other day, Derek said to me, Deano (he always calls me Deano), that C++ language is something else. I really dig it.
OK- that right there? That's freakin' funny.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #194
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Well, just the other day, Derek said to me, Deano (he always calls me Deano), that C++ language is something else. I really dig it.
Like x 10.

I've been a C++ programmer for 23 years. I love it for its feeling of power and danger.

-Kirk
Old 3rd July 2013
  #195
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
I'm not familiar with your product, however everything is pretty much trivial these days unless you develop game engines or graphics kernels which again is all done in assembler.
Always entertaining!

-Kirk
Old 3rd July 2013
  #196
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
Not sure about that, My father worked for a company called Lotus in the 70s and 80s.
They used to have this program similar to Excel it was called '1234' I think. It was 90% assembler and from what I recall, it was written in only a couple years by one person.

From what he has told me, back in his day all the hardcore software was assembler. 200mhz with 16 meg of ram was limiting, they had to make up for the short comings of hardware somehow. But back then people learned coding on punch cards so it was second nature to them I suppose.



I like C++ but I write a lot of embedded stuff so I really like assembler and or C. C++ is a good high level language. It runs fast, it is very easy to master and it at least at one time was the industry standard. I like it better than C# and Objective C.
Lotus 1,2,3, from Lotus Software. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_1-2-3

It was the first 'killer app' on the PC, a small-business-ready spreadsheet program that allowed accountant types with no programming experience to construct spreadshets around ad hoc relationships. Relational computer databases were familiar in the business world, but the software spreadsheet -- introduced around the end of the 70s in earliest forms -- was a game-changing rule breaker. I remember a friend who hired into a corporate gig as a typist in the mid-late 80s, but she was eager to work with computers. They liked her work, gave her responsibility for a crucial monthly report that was assembled the 'old-fashioned desktop publishing' way, retyping all the data from 24" wide print outs, using sophisticated copying machines to zoom sizes and such. She'd worked on Lotus 1,2,3 at a previous temp gig and she knew that if she could just get the IT department to give her the data on a floppy, that she could whip it into a report format where she could just plug in the monthly numbers.

The IT department would hear none of it. Give a glorified typist data on a disk? Unthinkable. But she found one guy who was sympathetic who snuck her the data on the side. She set up a spreadsheet, and then used her secret weapon: LOTUS' built-in bar graphing utility. She output it on a nice laser.

The marketing and admin guys went nuts. (Graphs, they love graphs.) There was a blow up with the IT manager, of course, the guy who gave her the data got temporarily in trouble, there was a big scene. But then, after a week or two the guys in the front office said, we've worked it all out. From now on, they'll send you the monthly figures on a disk and you go on doing your magic.

Lotus 1,2,3. That put the PC in the office.


(No discussion of computer spreadsheets, however, can be considered complete without mention of the one that really put the idea on the map and made it possible on the Apple II, Visicalc. Mitch Kapor, Lotus' developer, was actually friends with the Visicalc guys.)
Old 3rd July 2013
  #197
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
What really blows me away is how developed his sound already was: There's none of the 'great technique for such a young guy though he needs some more mileage'- syndrom that most ANY musician displays at that age.
he had that smoothness even at 12 years old, I think what sets trucks apart from his peers is that Daune like quality of seamless transition from not to note, phrase to phrase.

You don't hear the typical string noise and other artifacts, like with other slide players. It's what makes him and Duane so enjoyable to listen to. There is no disruption in the continuity from phrase to phrase no string noise or squeals in between notes that disrupt these phrase during the listening experience. It's almost like they they make the slide/bottle have a violin bow transition like quality.

very cool. When I first heard trucks I was blown away. I've never heard anyone come close to Duane, but trucks has it down. It's cool he carries on the tradition. But I agree with your earlier post in that Duane was an incredible all around guitar player too. Little Martha and his solo in Blue Sky are epic. Pretty much everything he did was awesome.
Old 4th July 2013
  #198
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
I'm not familiar with your product, however everything is pretty much trivial these days unless you develop game engines or graphics kernels which again is all done in assembler.
No they're not, and I don't think I have ever heard this ignorant statement before. This coming from a C+ developer who has been coding in C++ for over 20 years, the most recent 10 of those in the game industry.
Old 4th July 2013
  #199
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
I'm tempted to look back and see where this thread fell off the rails.
Old 4th July 2013
  #200
Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I'm tempted to look back and see where this thread fell off the rails.
I resemble that remark...
Old 4th July 2013
  #201
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraserhutch View Post
No they're not, and I don't think I have ever heard this ignorant statement before. This coming from a C+ developer who has been coding in C++ for over 20 years, the most recent 10 of those in the game industry.
Sorry I'm not talking about using Unity and opengl and QT . If you really developed software you would know a graphics kernel and stuff like particles, GI, Inverse Kinematics, CSG, breps, NURBS, raycasting are the most complex aspects of Computer Science and you need to know them all. It encompasses everything: Physics to Vector Calculus to Sampling theory to Abstract Algebra/Discrete Math.

I'm talking like old school, like id software, I'm not talking about scripting in python
or even bitblt'ing or using setpixel with an API. I'm talking about doing it all with assembler and access hardware through a stack only. No OO, No API, no libraries.
Just you and MASM or whatever. If you can do that you are brave soul.

Can we discuss Clapton please?
Old 4th July 2013
  #202
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkhawley View Post
Sunshine Of Your Love doesn't sound so boring once you realize that nobody had ever heard anything like it before.
-K
That's the problem is putting it in perspective. It along with satisfaction
and Day tripper, they were the first great riffs but cream was HEAVY for the time
for the time. It was so long ago you forget how great it is. Not to mention all the bands that copied it. It sort of gets watered down. it doesn't have as much zing after 45 years.
It was very inspiring the first time I heard Cream. Especially White Room and Brave Ulysses.
Old 4th July 2013
  #203
Gear Maniac
 
zombiesarebad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post

Can we discuss Clapton please?
yes.

am i the only one that finds this era Clapton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hYCKeOsj_w

about a hundred times more interesting than this era Clapton?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNpS23xTyCM
Old 4th July 2013
  #204
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiesarebad View Post
I thought everyone liked old school Clapton the best
although his record with BB king is solid
Old 4th July 2013
  #205
Eric Clapton was a drunk

;-)

Trololololooooooool
Old 4th July 2013
  #206
Here for the gear
 

Wow, truly ignorant. Unlike you, I do "really* program for a living as a game developer for AAA console titles, I don't use Unity or QT, at least not professionally, and I have delivered AAA titles for both Sony and Microsoft. I have a degree in computer science, and I am not talking about scripting. I, walk the talk and can tell you that most game engines are NOT written in assembler these days, which was your original assertion.

BTW, most people know how to use Google.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
Sorry I'm not talking about using Unity and opengl and QT . If you really developed software you would know a graphics kernel and stuff like particles, GI, Inverse Kinematics, CSG, breps, NURBS, raycasting are the most complex aspects of Computer Science and you need to know them all. It encompasses everything: Physics to Vector Calculus to Sampling theory to Abstract Algebra/Discrete Math.

I'm talking like old school, like id software, I'm not talking about scripting in python
or even bitblt'ing or using setpixel with an API. I'm talking about doing it all with assembler and access hardware through a stack only. No OO, No API, no libraries.
Just you and MASM or whatever. If you can do that you are brave soul.

Can we discuss Clapton please?
Old 4th July 2013
  #207
Gear Guru
I talked about it earlier in this very thread- to me Clapton's tone went downhill when he went from Gibsons to the Strat.
The Bluesbreakers tone was killer. The first time somebody plugged a Les Paul into a Marshall, cranked it up and let it sustaiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnn. He defined that singing lead tone guitarists still go for.
Old 4th July 2013
  #208
Gear Maniac
 
zombiesarebad's Avatar
 

i'd like to think that most people prefer early Clapton, but... i don't know. A lot of people seem to like that cookie-cutter blues sound he went to.

Stevie Ray, later Clapton, BB King... it's all pretty vanilla to me. If i'm listening to blues, it's got to be a unique take on it (like Cream), or the first generation stuff. Son House is a favorite of mine.
Old 4th July 2013
  #209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
I resemble that remark...
I ditto that remark. I mean, me, too. Obviously. I mean... it's in my blood.
Old 4th July 2013
  #210
Is that the Clapton equivalent for Hipsterism? "I liked him BEFORE he was strat-ed"

I kid, I kid. While its not as hard-rocking, the 70s stuff does make for a great, chill summertime playlist. 461 is one of my favs, esp. "Motherless Children". That's just a really simple, fun jam.

Reading about that period in his life, though, in the "Clapton" autobiography is really shattering! Brutally honest and sad stuff. Also, his account of the end of his marriage in '85 right around the Live-Aid performance makes that particular performance of "Layla" seem particularly poignant.

Can we PLEASE talk about Jack Bruce now?

:-P
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump