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Digidesign ICON Integrated Console Configurations
Old 14th August 2005
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Digidesign ICON Integrated Console Configurations

Here:

http://www.digidesign.com/news/detai...?story_id=2658

and prices here:

http://www.digidesign.com/products/c...onfigurations/

The savings are significant
Old 14th August 2005
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

50K to just get in the door.

...Better have alot of business lined up.

ICON D-Command Console Configurations

D-Command|MUSIC

Total Value:
Price:

$49,995

D-Command Main Unit
D-Command Fader Module
Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
2 192 I/Os
192 A/D
MIDI I/O
SYNC I/O
PRE
ReVibe
Smack! TDM
Synchronic
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)

-Stixxs
Old 14th August 2005
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Sobe's Avatar
 

Funny we think that is a lot now ... that is just what a 24 track use to cost and a Digital multitrack was 2 or 4 times the price of that ........
Old 14th August 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe
Funny we think that is a lot now ... that is just what a 24 track use to cost and a Digital multitrack was 2 or 4 times the price of that ........
But there was a good reason for it. This is all just software in a plastic wrapping.

-R
Old 14th August 2005
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Sobe's Avatar
 

this is software in a plastic wrapping ...... Lots of hardware here !
D-Command Main Unit
D-Command Fader Module
Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
2 192 I/Os
192 A/D
MIDI I/O
SYNC I/O
PRE
ReVibe
Smack! TDM
Synchronic
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)
Old 14th August 2005
  #6
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe
Funny we think that is a lot now ... that is just what a 24 track use to cost and a Digital multitrack was 2 or 4 times the price of that ........
But then it was easy to get $10K per song from a record company for production.
Old 14th August 2005
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Sobe's Avatar
 

Still can if you got the name ... and more people can get 50K for a beat ... hip hop has made it where you can bring in much more $$$$$

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-and-production/38827-who-knows-about-2-million-beat.html
Old 14th August 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe
Funny we think that is a lot now ... that is just what a 24 track use to cost and a Digital multitrack was 2 or 4 times the price of that ........

Yeah...your right, I'll use that to convince the wife.

And no doubt the majority of it is hardware!
Old 14th August 2005
  #9
Gear Addict
 
Sobe's Avatar
 

if you do not have the work then it may seem like a lot but when you can charge a grand a day it gets paid off fast , and that is less than 100 an hour on a 12 hour block.... a plumer charges that these days !
Old 15th August 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe
this is software in a plastic wrapping ...... Lots of hardware here !
D-Command Main Unit
D-Command Fader Module
Pro Tools|HD 3 Accel Core
2 192 I/Os
192 A/D
MIDI I/O
SYNC I/O
PRE
ReVibe
Smack! TDM
Synchronic
DigiDelivery Serv|LT
HDpack 3 (v6)
All that so called hardware could be had for chicken feed. Break out the prices and see just how much the D-Command costs. And then realize that there's nothing under the surface of the thing. No resistors or capacitors or op amps or voltage rails. No, it's the software, which you are also paying a hefty price for, which is creating the illusion that this is a real console. So you're paying twice.

What you're really paying for is the software, the reliability factor, and the Digi monopoly. That's fine, I'm an HD3/Accel user myself. However, it seems to me that at the time Digi is solidifying it's product base with these PT-specific consoles, the overall PT platform is starting to seem old and a bit "last century" compared to more innovative platforms, like Logic for instance, or Live, or even garage band. They are embracing a dated paradigm and soaking the last bit of cash out of people who are used to using the traditional console/tape machine way of working. I mean really, why would anyone want to use virtual rotary knobs to try to create eq curves when you can just use a mouse to directly create the curve on a screen. I really think that way of working is on the way out.

I like the basic functinality of my C24 and use it mostly for volume moves, panning and effect sends. I really don't need it to make me breakfast.

-R
Old 15th August 2005
  #11
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
All that so called hardware could be had for chicken feed. Break out the prices and see just how much the D-Command costs. And then realize that there's nothing under the surface of the thing. No resistors or capacitors or op amps or voltage rails. No, it's the software, which you are also paying a hefty price for, which is creating the illusion that this is a real console. So you're paying twice.

What you're really paying for is the software, the reliability factor, and the Digi monopoly. That's fine, I'm an HD3/Accel user myself. However, it seems to me that at the time Digi is solidifying it's product base with these PT-specific consoles, the overall PT platform is starting to seem old and a bit "last century" compared to more innovative platforms, like Logic for instance, or Live, or even garage band. They are embracing a dated paradigm and soaking the last bit of cash out of people who are used to using the traditional console/tape machine way of working. I mean really, why would anyone want to use virtual rotary knobs to try to create eq curves when you can just use a mouse to directly create the curve on a screen. I really think that way of working is on the way out.

I like the basic functinality of my C24 and use it mostly for volume moves, panning and effect sends. I really don't need it to make me breakfast.

-R
You're buying a solution for a modus operandi where you actually start listening instead of watching.... think about it.

I sat for an hour or so behind an Icon and realised that it is the only controller at the moment that you can use as a console without looking at a screen or scrolling with a mouse. I don't give a rat's ass what's in a certain box, if it does what it supposes to do, I'm happy.

I'm not a protools user, but when I ever switch to that platform, I'll be sure to get me a D-command, if for no other reason then for being able to shut of the LCD screen and eq and compress by turning nobs, not by looking at numbers.

I agree that 50K is quite expensive, but if they can ask that kind of money, it means they have build a solution that people want to pay for.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 15th August 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
Yeah, it seems funny to me that a lot of the same people who are complaining about 'project studio mentality' and its $10 per hour 'business model' are now complaining about hi-end Digi being too expensive.

And probably would think nothing of spending $ 30'000 on a 'holy grail' Fairchild in need of tubes that are harder to find than weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

'It's just software', I dunno. I guess it's the future and you better get used to it.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch
Old 15th August 2005
  #13
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
I like the basic functinality of my C24 and use it mostly for volume moves, panning and effect sends. I really don't need it to make me breakfast.
I'm with you. While the system is not unappealing to me, the pricing completely removes it from my horizon. Actually, I even think the C24 is somewhat redundant with it's pedestrian mic pres and monitor section. So, I just use the lowly US2400 for exactly what you do with the C24. Works great here...

You big boys rock on with your mighty icons!
Old 15th August 2005
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman

I like the basic functinality of my C24 and use it mostly for volume moves, panning and effect sends. I really don't need it to make me breakfast.

-R
I used the Icon and to be completely honest, I like my C24 much better. I think it is set up better and that the ICON doesnt really offer much that it cant (that is useful to me). I originally assumed that those big stupid knobs were joysticks for 5.1 funcitons and when I found out that they were just knobs 'dressed up' I was kinda pissed.
One of my favorite things about the C24 is the F10/flip function that allows me to use its knobs and faders to control plug in parameters. This alone makes it worth it to me and I think that it is generally a very well thought out unit.. The only thing I dont use it for is its monitoring section (I think its setup kind of badly).

So no $50,000 mouse for me. Besides, if I wanted to spend all that $ to get an ICON, I would just save up a little more and buy an AWS900.
Old 15th August 2005
  #15
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DirkB's Avatar
I think the D-command costs about as much as the c24 costs? The thing that is overprised in my opinion is the 16ch fader pack optional.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 15th August 2005
  #16
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB
I think the D-command costs about as much as the c24 costs? The thing that is overprised in my opinion is the 16ch fader pack optional.

Greetings,
Dirk
I think the D-command is about 3 times as much, and even more if you go for 24 faders, which is what the C24 gives you. I got my C24 for $5,500.

And yes, I don't use the mic pre's or the monitor controls. But the features I do use work perfectly and integrate nicely into my workflow.

-R
Old 15th August 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=DirkB]You're buying a solution for a modus operandi where you actually start listening instead of watching.... think about it.

I sat for an hour or so behind an Icon and realised that it is the only controller at the moment that you can use as a console without looking at a screen or scrolling with a mouse. I don't give a rat's ass what's in a certain box, if it does what it supposes to do, I'm happy.

/QUOTE]

Believe me, I can look and listen at the same time. The thing that slows me down is if I have too much going on in my brain. Like trying to remember which knob controls which function on which plugin. Like having to use two hands on two knobs to control eq frequency and amount of cut or boost, instead of one smooth move with a mouse.

We often use visual cues to help our work. Meters, record-arm buttons, solo lights, frequency markers on eq knobs, compressor controls and knobs that go to 11 come to mind. And how about that little blue LED in a Lawson mic that tells you you're in cardioid mode! ( I know, you should be able to tell just by listening what pattern your mic is set to)

But seriously, everybody will finds their own solution. As for me, FWIW, I found that once I delegated fader moves, pan controls, effect sends, and transport controls to my C24 then actually reaching over and using the mouse for eq and compressor controls became a pleasurable and efficient alternative rather than just more carpal tunnel mouse drudgery. And the fact that the C24 is so compact, with the faders close together, means it is easier to integrate not only faders and a computer keyboard and screen, but also an 88 key MIDI keyboard all into the same ergonomic space. And I get no console reflections for my S3A-s which makes more difference than I ever thought possible.

-R
Old 15th August 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
If it works for you, it works.

I cannot look at anything while listening, but closing my eyes also doesn't work, so I look at the black screen of my TFT monitor, works for me heh .
The D-command is actually a lot smaller than the D-control, very compact. I guess in a year or 2-3 you can get one quite a bit cheaper with a little luck. That might be when I make the switch...

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 17th August 2005
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
So no $50,000 mouse for me. Besides, if I wanted to spend all that $ to get an ICON, I would just save up a little more and buy an AWS900.
to be devil's advocate here (i'm also checking out the AWS), the Icon's big selling point is that it offers a smooth, console-type interface. screen is supposed to be almost unnecessary. the people that have opted to go that route have done so largely because of this. the vibe is that of a large format board + total reset, which is obviously cool.

the plus of the AWS is the analog section, with independent recall and automation - which can also be a drawback if one wants to do some editing after fader automation has been done, as the faders will then not follow the edited protools session. so moves would have to be done again.

and as a controller it isn't up there with the Icon. so the question is, in day to day use, which will increase work flow, make the mixing process more seamless and pleasurable and will be instrumental in achieving a better overall sound? and most importantly, which looks cooler?

what i'm going to do is get a summing box, send an identical signal with identical outboard chain to the summer and ITB, and back out (with it's extra AD/DA conversion). if they sound the same or different in a good way, the hybrid controller/outboard + summing box deal could definitely be the ticket.

if not, AWS could be in the future. of course many goodies will be appearing this AES show.

one of my main beefs has been ITB EQ. but with plugs like Hydratone and QClone that's starting to change...
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