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If you had $20,000 and a clean slate? Condenser Microphones
Old 29th April 2003
  #61
Gear Head
 
Fat Cat's Avatar
 

About $20,000 more for better mics, pre's-A/D's, PT, and I'm set.
Old 29th April 2003
  #62
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Man, if only I had bought this stuff when I started rather then the crap I did buy.

That's the exact reason I started this thread.
Old 29th April 2003
  #63
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
That's the exact reason I started this thread.
Yeah, I'll second Jay's notion. I started getting rid of all my old crap and buying decent stuff recently, and it's really improved my recordings quite a lot.

Here's my list:

HD2 w/ 192 - 12,000
2 x C42 - 1,000
2 x KSM44 - 1,000
2 x 441 - 1,000
2 x TC30k - 1,000
4 channel HV-3D - 2,000
Sytek - 800
HR824 - 1,000

That's brings it to about $19,800. Get it all on ebay, use an existing computer, and that'll bring it down a grand or 2, so I could get cables, stands, cases, plugs, etc. Next step would be adding a pair of Royers or Coles, upgrading the HV-3D to 8 channels, and maybe a PCMCIA expansion chassis so I wouldn't have to drag the whole computer around. I don't do a lot of rock bands, so this setup would do quite nicely. Come to think of it, it's not too far off from what I have now. Anyone want my 001 for their HD2? I'll even throw in the Panasonic converters... heh

-Dave
Old 29th April 2003
  #64
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Man, if only I had bought this stuff when I started rather then the crap I did buy.
A lot of the stuff didn't exist or it hadn't depreciated yet.


Also did u have $20K for gear when u started out?
Old 29th April 2003
  #65
jho
Lives for gear
 
jho's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Walling1
Yeah, I'll second Jay's notion. I started getting rid of all my old crap and buying decent stuff recently, and it's really improved my recordings quite a lot.

Here's my list:

HD2 w/ 192 - 12,000
2 x C42 - 1,000
2 x KSM44 - 1,000
2 x 441 - 1,000
2 x TC30k - 1,000
4 channel HV-3D - 2,000
Sytek - 800
HR824 - 1,000

That's brings it to about $19,800. Get it all on ebay, use an existing computer, and that'll bring it down a grand or 2, so I could get cables, stands, cases, plugs, etc. Next step would be adding a pair of Royers or Coles, upgrading the HV-3D to 8 channels, and maybe a PCMCIA expansion chassis so I wouldn't have to drag the whole computer around. I don't do a lot of rock bands, so this setup would do quite nicely. Come to think of it, it's not too far off from what I have now. Anyone want my 001 for their HD2? I'll even throw in the Panasonic converters... heh

-Dave



Starting with an PT HD system of some type and a 192 i/o is a great way to go. You can build a solid foundation that will last a long time from that.
Old 30th April 2003
  #66
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

showing up to track basic's at a remote location, take it all home then carry on with overdubs & mixing there...

I think bands might be open minded to this..
Absolutely!

There's recording in a proper studio and then there's recording someplace much more fun than a proper studio. It's the first time doing this has been practical without spending mega-bucks.

Music is all about having lots of fun performing. If that isn't happening, there's little point in recording it.
Old 30th April 2003
  #67
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson


Music is all about having lots of fun performing. If that isn't happening, there's little point in recording it.
As usual, a great thought from Mr. Ohlsson. We're luck to have you here Sir!

The above quote is going on the wall at the studio.
Old 30th April 2003
  #68
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Walling1
Yeah, I'll second Jay's notion. I started getting rid of all my old crap and buying decent stuff recently, and it's really improved my recordings quite a lot.

Here's my list:

HD2 w/ 192 - 12,000
2 x C42 - 1,000
2 x KSM44 - 1,000
2 x 441 - 1,000
2 x TC30k - 1,000
4 channel HV-3D - 2,000
Sytek - 800
HR824 - 1,000

That's brings it to about $19,800. Get it all on ebay, use an existing computer, and that'll bring it down a grand or 2, so I could get cables, stands, cases, plugs, etc. Next step would be adding a pair of Royers or Coles, upgrading the HV-3D to 8 channels, and maybe a PCMCIA expansion chassis so I wouldn't have to drag the whole computer around. I don't do a lot of rock bands, so this setup would do quite nicely. Come to think of it, it's not too far off from what I have now. Anyone want my 001 for their HD2? I'll even throw in the Panasonic converters... heh

-Dave
No monitors, Dave? Will you be mixing on headphones?
Old 30th April 2003
  #69
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
What about the HR824's?
Old 30th April 2003
  #70
Lives for gear
 
Tim L's Avatar
 

If I had 20 large and a clean slate?

I'd go to chef school...
Old 30th April 2003
  #71
Lives for gear
 
dave-G's Avatar
And I still want a boat
Old 1st May 2003
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Damn, I'm close, but I'm over, and there's no allowance for racks, stands, cables, patchbays, headphones, or cue systems. I guess if a dealer gave a volume discount or some bargain hunting took place, it could happen though, so I'll list it:

Multitrack/Mixdown/Mixer: Digi002 and the 17" iMac w/ Superdrive. More out of budget constraint than actual desire to use this, though the peer presure and market factors can make this a good choice on the relatively cheap. Also, not everyone is as content as I am working on prosumer Otaris and a beatup old Allen and Heath board. $4000

Preamps: Sytek MP-4ai w/ two channels of FET opamp mod, FMR RNP, GR ME1-NV and Phoenix DRS-1. Eight channels of capable pre, if not all the sexiest stuff. I'd be quite happy to have this to record most rock and pop. Four channels of damned good DI included $3500

Compressors: 2 FMR RNC and 2 Empirical lab EL-8x Distressors (slightly more expensive alternate: 1 Distressor, 1 Cranesong Trakker.) Mainly for tracking, the I suppose inserts are possible later in the game. $3,630

Eq: stereo Speck ASC's. I might actually make some more particular choices for myself, including a DIY Pultec with modern opamps for makeup gain and racking some German broadcast eq's, but these are a good starting point for a commercially available eq of sufficient or better quality. With PT, I might opt for the RTAS Oxford EQ and the aforementioned color eq's, or leave the high end digital stuff to the next paragraph. $1,100

DSP: Kurzweil KSP-8 w/ analog i/o and lightpipe card. I haven't tried it, but I want it, I want it, I want it. Passing on the nifty remote, but adding some i/o to enable it's use as outboard converters and possibly to clock the Digi002, as I suspect both aspects surpass the 002. I believe in printing with effects, but digital i/o will also enable mixdown use. Supposed to have good eq algorithms and "stunt compression" in addition to all the things you would expect. $3,400 from Mercenary, probably cheaper elsewhere, but I like the doubled warranty on anything of this complexity.

Monitors: ADAM P-11A's. I'd like to free up more money for the more serious ADAM's, but these oughtta cut it. (I'd love $5000 extra to the budget to cover the bigger monitors and the defecits mentioned up top.) $1,700

Mics: Soundeluxe U195, Josephson C42 matched pair, EV RE-27, Shure SM-7, Beyer M-88, Beyer M-201, EV 635a, Shure SM-57, and EV RE-15. Not a flashy set, but useful and a rather full complement, sufficient to mic drums, guitar, bass and vocals simultaneously. People bigger on micing toms than myself might opt out of some of these choices and look for a deal on a 3 pack of Sennheiser E604's or Audix OM-2's (great budget tom mic, and good on some thinner vocals). Conservatively $3,300, though I'm a good scrounger on mics.

That's $20,630. I'd like to add some isolation phones ($99 a pop), the cheapie Behringer headphone amp which is okay ($69 on sale), and a few nicer pairs of phones for the control room. The setup, in my mind, is one that will not require much upgrading by replacment rather than upgrading by augmentation (more gear - yippee!).

Bear
Old 1st May 2003
  #73
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
What about the HR824's?
Yep, that would be the monitors...
Old 1st May 2003
  #74
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Walling1
Yep, that would be the monitors...
My bad! Sorry - my eyes skipped over them...

By the way, I've got a boat - FOUR WINNS 205 SUNDOWNER (20' power boat). I love it. But it cost over twenty grand and about 2 grand per year in maintenance, storage, etc. Then there's gas (I get about 3-4 miles per gallon).

The old line about it's easier just to dump your money in the ocan has some merit. So does the old line about the two happiest days in a boat owner's life are the day he buys it and the day he sells it.

Be careful what you wish for...

Anyway, anyone passing through bean-town is welcome to come for a ride...
(winter excluded, of course!)
Old 1st May 2003
  #75
Riffer
 
lflier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson

Music is all about having lots of fun performing. If that isn't happening, there's little point in recording it.
AMEN!!!!

Truer words were never spoken, especially nowadays when the airwaves are full of "performances" that never even happened. heh

Thanks for making my day Bob. Won't be the first time and probably not the last either.
Old 1st May 2003
  #76
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Also did u have $20K for gear when u started out?
Not really but sort of. When I left the big studio and started on my own I was working out of a garage studio that was owned by one of the interns brothers. He had a 1/2" 16-track, a Studiomaster board, some Digitech 'verb and a bunch of SM57's. I worked out of there for a while and eventually had enough gear that I realized all I needed was a board and a multi-track and I could keep all of clients money rather then giving the bro a small chunk.

When I bought the console and my first multi-track (another 1/2" 16-track) I was into it for about $12 or $14K. Not too far off from $20. But, I had bought a bunch of crap. I had 10 channels of Behringer compressors when they were $200+ a pop. ****. If only I had realized... I would've taken that grand and bought one 1176 and a 160X instead. Ah well. Live and learn. Actually, in hindsight I wish I had kept working out of the bro's studio rather then putting my own shingle out.

Nukkin Futter.

That was the big lesson.
Old 2nd May 2003
  #77
Lives for gear
I did this last night but some dingo came swooping by and ate my response...

(Updated March 2004)

I don't care anymore.
Old 4th May 2003
  #78
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 

I would go with:

* Used PT Mix system + adat bridge or 888/24
* 2 Sebatron 4 channel Mic Pres
* 2 RNCs
* 1 used G4 733/800/933
* Waves TDM Gold Bundle, Amp Farm, autotune plugs
* 2 At4050, 2 GT55, 2 SM81, 2 Beta 57´s
* 1 pair of Dynaudio BM6´s
* 4 Sony/Senheiser/AKG headphones
* 1 Furman Headphone Amp
* XLR cables

Hope it helped ya!!!
Old 30th March 2004
  #79
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
Me too! Seriously, how would you go about it? Not a single one of us started knowing what we know now, so if you had to redo it, with a $20,000 budget, what would you do?

PS - Just because I work for Benchmark doesn't mean I don't love other gear
Gotta LOVE Benchmark gear! PS any idea when the ADC-1 will be out?
Old 30th March 2004
  #80
Jax
Lives for gear
 

(I haven't looked at the entire thread yet, so I'm not sure where you're at by this point, atticus.)

I'd start with a pair of great monitors. It'd come down to a shootout between the Klein and Hummel 0300D and ADAM S3A's (@$6k). Although a large chunk of that $20k would be spent here, I think it would be more than worth it. [and I'm still mixing on JBL LSR28p's]

Whatever space you're using, I'd plan to buy or build at least 8 minitraps (unless the room is very small). This assumes that your room(s) are not being built from scratch with acoustic design in mind. (buy from company = $1.2k, DIY = @$400)

aw crap... gotta bail.. may have more later

Anyway I'd start there. No point developing a nice studio that doesn't translate or sound good and balanced.
Old 30th March 2004
  #81
Lives for gear
 
flexoffset's Avatar
 

You realize how little you have at $20,000 when someone asks you to record something and you pick your brain trying to figure out how in the hell you're gonna pull THAT off with your current gear.

My neighbor just built his house and as luck has it, he was a professional drummer and he's got some friends who may want to record a Jazz/bluegrass/gospel (all acoustic) demo CD at my place.

I've got 20,000 bucks (at least) in my little studio and that's just for a couple of channels of audio (including $7000 worth of monitoring gear). I feel that having a good monitoring setup is primary in buying gear for the front-end, IMO.

(-) I only have 2 analog ins, 1 S/PDIF in and 2 analog outs, 1 S/PDIF out. That was my first mistake. Get a minimum of 8 channels of good conversion....no matter if you think it'll be 'just you' recording jingles by yourself. You will end up using those extra channels.

(+) My focus first was on a computer and DAW.
I now have some good soft synths, and Waves Gold, now.
I wouldn't change this, except I'd consider adding ProTools later (once I had money coming in).

(-) Then I got a cheap audio card because at the time, I had NO IDEA how damaging jitter and crummy conversion can be.
I finally ended up with a Lynx L22 but should have sprung for the L2.

(-) The crummy audio card had relatively bad D/A conversion, thus a crummy monitoring situation, so I bought a DAC-1 and got a Sennheiser headphone with them. Then I got the ADAM S3A.

(-) I had some old legacy synths - M1, DW8000, but they were old 'technology' (not old analog). There's a definite difference.
I ended up buying two new synths that complement each other. I need to make some weird noises.

(+) I bought external controllers for my DAW (Logic Control and XT) so it would at least FEEL a little more normal than mixing with a mouse.

After all that, I've pretty much got all the high-quality basic stuff for recording one person at a time in stereo. :(
But to really do it right, I still need:

(-) preamps, compressors, amps, more guitars, more basses, good mics, good cables, acoustic treatments, mic stands, monitor stands, power conditioners, etc.

Quality costs a lot of money, apparently.
However, I'm not in debt from it.
I had to stretch for one piece of gear, but in total, all I owe is about $1800 and it will be paid in two weeks.
This industry's too flaky to go out on a limb if you don't already have $20,000 burning a hole in your wallet.
Old 30th March 2004
  #82
djs
Gear Nut
 

tracking

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
No seriously, you would have to build a rep for showing up to track basic's at a remote location, take it all home then carry on with overdubs & mixing there...

I think bands might be open minded to this..

[/B]
i had been doing just that before i finally got my new rooms (similar setup too). it is a bit of a p.i.t.a., but a few nice things about it...

1)the band doesn't have to move anything (what band doesn't like that?)

2)the band is very comfortable in that situation, as it's the place they are used to playing in all the time...not like going into some huge studio (can be very intimadating- esp. for first timers). definatley helps the proformance, regardless of how the room sounds...and hey, isn't that the most important thing?
Old 30th March 2004
  #83
Lives for gear
 
faeflora's Avatar
 

I would ****ing cry.
Old 30th March 2004
  #84
Gear Nut
 

I would just buy a Roland VS-2480CD: 24-trk Digital Workstation
and with the change get as many top mics as possible
Old 31st March 2004
  #85
Gear Nut
 

I'll give it a shot

L47mp $2000
U195 $1100
octava mk12 pair $200
Josephson C42 pair $900
Asst Dynamics $1000

MP2NV $2000
Sytek $800
BA API 312 $1450


Digi 002r $1000
Computer $800
rosetta 800 $2200
Kontakt and keyboard controller $1000


Rumour $500
Distressor x2 $2000
Speck ASC x2 $1000
Waves ren col 1 & 2 $400

Hafler trm 8's and 12' $2000

$20,350

Old 31st March 2004
  #86
Gear Maniac
 
Lectra's Avatar
 

I would buy:

* 10.000 lottery tickets (2$ each) & start praying
Old 31st March 2004
  #87
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
Nuendo 2
Homemade DAW (AMD 3000/333, ASUS NForce, Kingston, Seagate)
15" flat (used)
MBox (used)
ATI 8MX2 (8ch)
API 3214 (4ch)
GML 8304 (4ch)
7th Circle 1272 (2ch)
Apogee AD16x + firewire card
RNC x2
Distressor - used
U195 - 1k (vox)
pair Josephson c42 - (overheads)
3x 421 - used - (toms)
4x SM57 - used (for gtr amps & snare/hat)
D112 - used - kick
DAC1
Masterlink (Bstock or scratch/dent)
Tannoy Reveal Actives (possibly used or scratch/dent) or similar class monitors
1 pair Sennheiser HD280
4 pair Harvy Gerst specials (headphones)
Behringer HA8000 headphone amp (8ch)
Misc. Mic Stands (used)
Couple spools of Belden cable and Neutrik connectors, and a soldering iron.
Old 31st March 2004
  #88
Gear Addict
 
rockum's Avatar
 

Is there any more agreed upon item than the humble SM57's?
Old 31st March 2004
  #89
Gear Maniac
 

Because I do all my own music ( or most of it) this would be
a studio for myself.
try to buy used as much as possible.

old mac ,sonnet 800mhz card
digi 001 with stereo mytek ad
benchmark dac-1
used power amp with ref monitors
korby or elux 251
at 4060
sm 57
c42
mss -10 or gorden single channel (comming soon)
v72
allen smart c2 or somthing of this quality
focusrite 110 for the eq
waves power pack
eventide 4000
mpx-1
samplecell (cds included)and r garfield drum doctor( can get live drums for free)
yamaha sy 85
old fender twin (from a pawn shop)
distortion pedal and wah
cables and a light bulb
a bus that can drive like a race car, I would floor it in the city
while doing vocal traxs and playing guitar at the same time.
ok now Im being silly ,forget the light bulb.

www.holomorphicmusic.com
Old 31st March 2004
  #90
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
Quote:
Is there any more agreed upon item than the humble SM57's?
The 421 and D112 look pretty ubiquitous also.


Wiggy posted:
Quote:
UA 7176 $2K ($19.5K)

?? you mean 6176?
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