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Damn...read the "kill home studio" thread - some food for thought
Old 11th August 2005
  #121
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Having a famous relative will only get you so far, case in point Jimmy Carter/ Billy Carter. Howza about Mariah Carey's sister ?? Ashlee 's fans bought over 3 million cd's....that's alot of fans who like her...so obviously, I'm not alone.

Truth is, Ashlee's sister had no influence on me, or my judgement of her music.

After seeing the concert in Cleveland, I would say yes, Ashlee's a very legit artist.
It takes a lot of guts to go on stage in front of a large crowd, and do any show, and she did it like any pro would. Some people I've met "in the business", can't even handle a local coffeehouse.

Overall, I think Ashlee's doing great for a 20 year old. That girl's just gettin' started.
Old 11th August 2005
  #122
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bunnerabb's Avatar
East sider or west sider?
Old 11th August 2005
  #123
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Having a famous relative will only get you so far, case in point Jimmy Carter/ Billy Carter.

i find this comparison offensive not only to our former president and his
brother, but also to the beer !



be well

- jack
Old 11th August 2005
  #124
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
Of all the arts, I think that music has progressed the least
I didn't bother reading past here.

This statement should read "Like all of the arts, music has progressed an extraodinary way through time, but unfortunately most people in the music industry have little grasp of what truely is possible".

Music has progressed so far that it's defination has simply become "the organisation of sound". How much further can it go? Sound encompasses everything we hear, including the most horrid, blood chilling noises. As the defination states, if you organise these noises in any way shape or form it is by defination Music.

Who left the greatest legacy of the 20th century? The beatles? Jimmy Page? Hendrix? No.

While Rock'n'Roll may seem like the forefront of music in the 1900's to most people, it wasn't.

It's the idea that music has no limits. Pierre Schaeffer, John Cage, Arnold Schönberg, Percy Grainger... the list goes on and on and on... What about industrial techno? That abnoxious sounding stuff came around in the 80's didnt it? well actually... one of the first examples was George Antheils "Ballet Mecanique"... written in 1924. It featured 16 player pianos (thats right 16!). It wasn't actually played until 1996. It was performed using two custom-modified MIDI-driven player pianos to play the 16 parts, and six pianists to play the two human parts.

Its the education that is holding the music industry back. Its not holding music back though... Composers are still pushing forward with new ideas... creating new instruments which bring forth more possibilities and even more thinking.

Yet it seems that being taught the production side industry means that the snare, kick and bass get put down the middle... and that an SM57 is only for guitar cabs, snare and toms... and that anything that sounds abrasive, rough, raw or intrucive is BAD PRODUCTION... I have certianly seen horrifying photos and paintings that made me want to turn away... but they are as valid as the next, and invoke a reaction as intended by its creator. Most gear and common practices found in studios were the result of composers exploring and searching for different sounds, including the basis for a DAW itself... but how many engineers do you think know where it comes from?


Technology hasn't caused a decline in the industry. It's made a larger and broader variety of music more readily avaliable for people to choose.

"Step outside the square". I'm sure everyone has heard it, unfortunately most people on the production side of this industry have little comprehension of how big that box really is...

It appears that current Audio Engineering is nothing more to music than what a Picture framer is to Visual Arts. Sure the final product may vary a little from framer to framer, but in the end... a good peice of art is a good peice of art... So what do people care if its done by a bloke in his bedroom or an overly arrogant producer in a high end studio. Its all gunna have the snare, bass and kick down the middle, guitars left and right, overly compressed sound anyway...
Old 11th August 2005
  #125
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bunnerabb's Avatar
Quote:
So what do people care if its done by a bloke in his bedroom or an overly arrogant producer in a high end studio. Its all gunna have the snare, bass and kick down the middle, guitars left and right, overly compressed sound anyway...
If you're doing cookie dough rock, yeah.

Wasn't that the point?

Not all new music has to sound like Godsmack?
Old 11th August 2005
  #126
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r0ck1r0ck2's Avatar
 

"Current Audio Engineering is nothing more to music than what a Picture framer is to Visual Arts"

i agree....why not "seek out new lifeforms"...."to Boldly Go" and all that...

look....the point of the first post in this thread that I read....back in 199?.....it was about the FUTURE!

it was comcerning lofty ideal like the future of the recorded musical experiance....
we are not discussing the art itself...rather the media that we experiance it through.
what are the Media that our GrandChildren will experiance? the LP? hologram? it could be shocking.....

artists constantly embrace new technology with the careFree glee of a 4 year old
Hip Hop Scratching....John Cage Scratching.....
The idea of PLAYING!!
free your mind and Something will folow...
Crazy Sh+t is the artists occupation...
"If you can't imagine it, How can it happen?" <-- Me...paraphrasing(sp?)

this is one of the 20th centurys answer to innovation.....randomness....JohnCage...Scratch

they will never understand tolerances....and things will break.....but an artist picks up the pieces and sees a pattern that an engineer can't........
They are really nuts.....don't ever doubt it....hide the china.......

Another side is Calculation....

Major 20th Century achievements include...
....Hydrogen Bomb/StephenHawking
..QuantumPhysics{these computer things+HydrogenBombs}
...Global Warming{Industry+Capital=WalMart}
...TheBeatles=POP [The people actually get listened to by Billions]
...Punk?HipHop/DIY [the people clarify their position for a second] watch your A$$


i like the idea that we should figure out how to embace future technology and conform our products to THAT ideal.....this is the future...

i prefer a Mono recording.....my current favorite song is "BadBoy" = The Jive Bombers
1957

but we should think of the "Jacking In" feature in cyberpunk literature

this is the future.... we MUST CREATE!

or it is something else that we cannot devine...
you'll ALL be suprised!


otherwise we are doing what the cancerous culture is bent on....namely eating its own corpse...
another u47 through a 1073...

don't you all want to be innovators?

be creative.....

think damn you!!

i will say that the film industry is not the new model to look to...they feed on shi+
Old 11th August 2005
  #127
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnerabb
If you're doing cookie dough rock, yeah.

Wasn't that the point?

Not all new music has to sound like Godsmack?
no... not all new music sounds like Godsmack, nor has to sound like Godsmack... but it doesn't sound new and certianly far from ground breaking. If that is the point, send me your address and i'll ship you a "Sounds in 60 Minutes or your money back" sign so your studio can fit in with the local photo-developer and picture framer shops up the road.

r0ck1r0ck2, like I said, I didn't make it past the first sentence... i was that surprised. We certianly live in an age with such technology that our senses could be fully emersed in an experience. But if people in this industry are led to say such a statement as the first sentence of this topic... what good will any form of media representation, replication or reproduction achieve? It shall probably slip quickly into a similar groove.
Old 11th August 2005
  #128
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r0ck1r0ck2's Avatar
 

POP

we're yearning for the days of the Beatles
taking over western culture and then western culture taking over world culture

a propaganda machine..

ashlee?....twinkies were invented in the 20's.....
only USA children eat them....she r0cks a crowd indeed....

what about HipHop? BeatBoxes+2 microphones=Easy&Fun....gets people nekkid
Ramen Noodles indeed

DanceHall/JamacianHipHop is worldwide
BollyWood..
You're talking about middle America...not NorthAmerica

the west is a great lake...not the worlds oceans...

and since the states cannot produce anything except image....and the same old image at that

"what good will any form of media representation, replication or reproduction achieve? It shall probably slip quickly into a similar groove."

i repeat....
think damn you!!

there must be something worthwhile left....

anybody?

maybe we should expand our diet....
Old 11th August 2005
  #129
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AlphaDingo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Firstly, the movie industry recognizes the importance of great scripts, great acting, and great direction. And puts their money where their mouth is - but this is the obvious and there is no point dwelling here.
This is the funniest thing I have EVER read, on the internet or elsewhere.
Old 11th August 2005
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDingo
This is the funniest thing I have EVER read, on the internet or elsewhere.
Glad to oblige.
Old 11th August 2005
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDingo
This is the funniest thing I have EVER read, on the internet or elsewhere.

number one movie in america? the dukes of hazzard. nuff said.
Old 11th August 2005
  #132
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

I wouldn't even "do" ashlee simpson if I had the chance.

That says alot considering I'm not to picky this time of year.

I can't stand her.

djwayne are you 12 ?

I just noticed you may be a "DJ"wayne, that probably explains it also.
Old 11th August 2005
  #133
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Well Jose, Ashlee probably wouldn't want to do you either.

and no I'm not 12, how old are you 15 ??

Who's gonna play your music if the dj's don't ?? You sound like another dumbass musician who hates dj's. Then complains why don't they bow down and play my music ??
Old 11th August 2005
  #134
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

send me your address and i'll ship you a "Sounds in 60 Minutes or your money back" sign so your studio can fit in with the local photo-developer and picture framer shops up the road.

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

Can you send me one too.

I might just make one!!!!!!!
Old 11th August 2005
  #135
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Quote:
number one movie in america? the dukes of hazzard. nuff said.
That's not enough said. That movie was/is an exercise in marketing - to a degree you rarely see. It's a small part of the big picture.

But if you think the movie industry is less accessable, less political, less intelligent, less artistic, less fantastic (in a production sense) ,and less skillfull than in the 40's, 50's, and 60's - show it to me.

Was it as common place then as it is now for the artists to finance productions that they believe in?

Was it as common place then as it is now for producers to create major productions outside of the contract studio business model?

Was it as common place as it is now for artists to drop their fees for scripts they feel are important?

Was it as common place then as it is now for small budget independant films to reach major markets?

Was it as common place then as it is now to see documentaries reach major markets?

Was it as common place then as it is now to feature artistic excellence in festivals around the world, specialized movie houses, and specialized cable stations?

It ain't perfect, no doubt, but it's moving forward.

OTOH, how does the music industry compare?
Old 11th August 2005
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Well Jose, Ashlee probably wouldn't want to do you either.

and no I'm not 12, how old are you 15 ??

Who's gonna play your music if the dj's don't ?? You sound like another dumbass musician who hates dj's. Then complains why don't they bow down and play my music ??
well, it's kind of in bad taste to discuss "doing" ashlee and not a factor in this discussion...and anyway i really do not fault her in any of this. she's just doing a job, like the rest of us. makin a buck.

that said, if you want to get into the whole dj vs musician thing that is a whole other issue and i bet the fur will start to fly. then again it depends on what your definition of a dj is....

all i know is if you play this simpson commercial crap without even getting paid off (or at least paid by your boss) to do it you are a fool. any dj who would voluntarily play this music purely because they thought it was good music....well, maybe they should consider real estate sales or some other field.

still not convinced this is not an elaborate joke. passionate support of the artistic merit of ashlee simpson. far OUT.
Old 11th August 2005
  #137
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faeflora's Avatar
 

Hehe 192Khz autotune.
Old 11th August 2005
  #138
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Well Jose, Ashlee probably wouldn't want to do you either.

and no I'm not 12, how old are you 15 ??

Who's gonna play your music if the dj's don't ?? You sound like another dumbass musician who hates dj's. Then complains why don't they bow down and play my music ??
I don't hate DJ's , I just don't think mixing different records is "making music".

DJ's have their pluses like everyone, but making music is not one of them.

Editor at best. Which is a tough/important job if you ask me.

I wish I was 15. I'm 28 and I suck. But Ashlee sucks a bit more : )
Old 11th August 2005
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit
well, it's kind of in bad taste to discuss "doing" ashlee and not a factor in this discussion...and anyway i really do not fault her in any of this. she's just doing a job, like the rest of us. makin a buck.

that said, if you want to get into the whole dj vs musician thing that is a whole other issue and i bet the fur will start to fly. then again it depends on what your definition of a dj is....

all i know is if you play this simpson commercial crap without even getting paid off (or at least paid by your boss) to do it you are a fool. any dj who would voluntarily play this music purely because they thought it was good music....well, maybe they should consider real estate sales or some other field.

still not convinced this is not an elaborate joke. passionate support of the artistic merit of ashlee simpson. far OUT.

Wazza matter, can't believe the fans bought over three million Ashlee cd's instead of yours.........Can't believe she was playing to sold out venue's ?? Believe it.

You really need to get out more.
Old 11th August 2005
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
I don't hate DJ's , I just don't think mixing different records is "making music".

DJ's have their pluses like everyone, but making music is not one of them.

Editor at best. Which is a tough/important job if you ask me.

I wish I was 15. I'm 28 and I suck. But Ashlee sucks a bit more : )

You're half right, you suck. Dj's aren't allowed to make music ??? hahahaha sorry dude, you don't your ass from a hole in the ground.
Old 11th August 2005
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Wazza matter, can't believe the fans bought over three million Ashlee cd's instead of yours.........Can't believe she was playing to sold out venue's ?? Believe it.

You really need to get out more.
oh, i believe you can sell records to 12 year olds. and get thousands of them to go to a concert. marketing a bland product to children is one of the stand bys of the us economy.

mcdonalds sells a lot of food. it is still terrible.
Old 11th August 2005
  #142
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The Beatles also sold lots of records to 12 year olds, your point is ....?????
Old 11th August 2005
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
The Beatles also sold lots of records to 12 year olds, your point is ....?????
that's EXACTLY the point. thanks for the clarity.

the corporations can sell either great music or crap. so when they choose crap it really bugs me....the beatles may be the perfect example of commerciallism and artistry meeting. it can happen.
Old 11th August 2005
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit
that's EXACTLY the point. thanks for the clarity.

the corporations can sell either great music or crap. so when they choose crap it really bugs me....the beatles may be the perfect example of commerciallism and artistry meeting. it can happen.

You point is ???


You sell records to whoever wants to buy them. Sales is sales. Unless of course you decide you only want to sell your cd's only to 32 year old white males with a college dimploma and a huge house with a huge mortgage and a SUV, two kids a wife and a mistress. If you're trying to do that, good luck.
Old 11th August 2005
  #145
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I realy don't see the fuss over Ashlee Simpson. If people like the music that's great - I'd rather people find music they enjoy than force feed them "dazed & confused" and not get into music at all. Tastes change as you get more involved in music, but it doesn't mean that music for young people is irrevalent - they have their own tastes.

What's good anyways? Everyone slags "music" on this board. But the book of rock has already been written. We praise U2, but their last hit "Vertigo" has been written 5 times already in the past - just like alot of "pop" that we consider "good".

The voices change, and sometimes the lyrics are more relevent in today's society and it still keeps me interested - but hopefully someone will decide to take the listening experience to a greater level. Make it worthwhile for great artists to cover classic material, which is pointless now when 9/10 times it's the same old same old.

This scene is so stuck in the past it's sick when it comes to equipment and production. Fender and Gibson (for eg) can't even come out with a new innovative product without getting trashed. God, at the Fender custom shop people are paying top dollar for poor old Abigail to wind pups like she did in the '60s. For what???? It seems to me we'd want our pups wound with twist ties if that's the sound Jimi Hendrix had, and piss on anything else. Rock & Roll in the past was about new sounds and innovation. Distortion & Overdrive was cool man, although it's really an engineering failure. Rock and Roll DROVE innovation. It wasn't the symphonies pushing for multi track and dynamics. But we still sit here dreaming of the past and blaming Ashlee Simpson.....hmmm
Old 11th August 2005
  #146
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Damn that evil Robert Plant for using echo on his voice, what a phony, are we supposed to believe he's singing in a cave somewhere ??? ya ya ya,

ROBERT PLANT = ECHOPLEX


What a phony !!!!! heh
Old 11th August 2005
  #147
Gear Head
 

DJWANYNE this is making my head hurt. You know she did have a show on MTV, gets you lots of fans. Aside from being energetic and keeping a drone of "fans" exicited, what strikes you that she is so talented. Are you just infatuated with her like my 50 year old unkle was when Britney came out. This is getting off topic, it changed to "can anyone explane to the professional DJ why exaclly does Ashlee Simpson suck" thread. Well it does get down to the point, how the public and a few others can make her and others in her boat sell millions of copies and overshadow any good music that is out, than obviously labels are going to invest more in hacks rather than real talent. If the public would embrace a really good act more than the clone war starts and that stars to become the new thrend.
Old 11th August 2005
  #148
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A good act i assume means some act with some emotional honesty rather than vacuosity. For the masses to embrace that, that would mean they were open to some personal honesty. I don't think people are quite capable of that right now.

Maybe 20 or 30 years ago but it's easier for people to be raise their hands for anger and carnal sensuality and cheez whiz.
Old 11th August 2005
  #149
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I keep hearing this crap about all this good music out there that doesn't make it...because of people like Ashlee...it's baloney. If the other music is so good, it would be played, but the truth is most of it is crap that nobody wants to hear or play, and the artist wants to blame anybody but themselves for their music not selling.

If the fans aren't buying your music, then go back to the drawing board and come up with something different, then keep trying until YOU figure out want the fans want. You cannot force anybody to like your music enough to buy it. It has to sell itself, and if your music isn't doing that, then try something different.

Believe me, as a live dj I know this. If people don't like the music I play, they will throw beer bottles, walk out, boo, demand a change until I play what THEY want to hear. If you don't believe me, try dj'ing sometime for a live crowd. Every artist has their fans and non-fans. Some crowds love Micheal Jackson, some hate him. So you have to understand there are many different musical tastes out there. As an artist, you must be able to develope your fan base. Ashlee has done that, and is doing very well within her crowd. It's amazing to me that you guys don't understand these things, and are bashing an artist who's not much different than yourselves. She has to deal with equipment problems, music biz problems, just like everybody else. How would you like to play the Orange Bowl and get boo'ed after doing a few of your songs...??
Old 11th August 2005
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Who's gonna play your music if the dj's don't ??
OK...it sounds like we need to define "DJ".....Broadcast Disc Jockey or , mixing beats for kids stoned on Red Bull DJ?

The first type (assuming we're talking about independent radio with actual humans programming the broadcast) MIGHT play my music if I produce something worthy and get their attention.

The latter will NEVER play MY music. They create something by combining several pieces of actual music into an abnoxious, pulsating mush. Take away the strobe lights, the deafening SPLs, the drugs, the dehydration, the hormones and what have you got? Certainly nothing that would stand the test of time by still selling records 30 years+ later.

EDIT: I suppose the 3rd category might be the "live jukebox DJ" that would simply play everyone's favorite songs at a wedding or similar event. Not much to say about that good or bad, that's just a job. But I don't think anyone would call them an "artist". They're simply providing a service, granted they may be very good at it...

-Z-
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