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A Question for Folcrom users...
Old 9th August 2005
  #1
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crypticglobe's Avatar
A Question for Folcrom users...

Is there any way to link multiple units? What if you wanted more than 16 channels?

Thanks in advance.
Old 9th August 2005
  #2
Yes, they can easily be linked for 32 channels max.
Old 9th August 2005
  #3
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Cool. How do you go about it?

Thanks,
Old 9th August 2005
  #4
It's basically a Y cable that sums the stereo outputs...so in other words you only ever need one stereo preamp in total (I get asked this question a lot).
Old 9th August 2005
  #5
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Hmmmm.... a special "y" or just a couple of Neutriks connected to Mogami leads that are then connected to another Neutrik?

Seems like something might be lost in that method. No??

Thanks again!
Old 9th August 2005
  #6
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ulysses's Avatar
We actually have a manual now that ships with the Folcrom, and it gives the full details on how you do the linking. It's really very simple. You used to have to open up the chassis (which was kind of a pain) to move some jumpers for optimal 32-channel operation. Now there's a switch.
Because the Folcrom is passive and has no buffer between the actual summing node and the output connector, you really do only need a couple of plain old XLR "Y" cables each with two XLR-F cconnectors feeding into one XLR-M connector. Use one Y cable to combine your two Left outputs, and the other to combine the two Right outputs. Then feed each cable into your pair of mike preamps for makeup gain.
When you parallel two Folcroms like this, their output impedance is also paralleled which would cut the effective output impedance, and output level, in half. But don't worry, we took care of this for you by providing a rear-panel switch which re-optimizes the summing impedance for 32-channel (linked) operation.
There are two tiny round holes on the rear panel of the Folcrom, and each has a pushbutton switch hidden behind it. One is near the center of the chassis - leave that one alone. That's a chassis ground lift that nobody will ever need and really doesn't need to be there. The other is between the Left XLR output jack and the edge of the chassis. This is the one you use. Insert a paperclip into the hole and use it to engage the switch. Do this on both Folcroms. When you're using a single Folcrom by itself, disengage the switch. The circuit will still work with the switch in the "wrong" position, but keeping the switch in the correct position for your application will optimize the performance of your Folcrii.
Old 9th August 2005
  #7
My Folcrii's Marklar has Marklar
Old 10th August 2005
  #8
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses
We actually have a manual now that ships with the Folcrom, and it gives the full details on how you do the linking. It's really very simple. You used to have to open up the chassis (which was kind of a pain) to move some jumpers for optimal 32-channel operation. Now there's a switch.
Because the Folcrom is passive and has no buffer between the actual summing node and the output connector, you really do only need a couple of plain old XLR "Y" cables each with two XLR-F cconnectors feeding into one XLR-M connector. Use one Y cable to combine your two Left outputs, and the other to combine the two Right outputs. Then feed each cable into your pair of mike preamps for makeup gain.
When you parallel two Folcroms like this, their output impedance is also paralleled which would cut the effective output impedance, and output level, in half. But don't worry, we took care of this for you by providing a rear-panel switch which re-optimizes the summing impedance for 32-channel (linked) operation.
There are two tiny round holes on the rear panel of the Folcrom, and each has a pushbutton switch hidden behind it. One is near the center of the chassis - leave that one alone. That's a chassis ground lift that nobody will ever need and really doesn't need to be there. The other is between the Left XLR output jack and the edge of the chassis. This is the one you use. Insert a paperclip into the hole and use it to engage the switch. Do this on both Folcroms. When you're using a single Folcrom by itself, disengage the switch. The circuit will still work with the switch in the "wrong" position, but keeping the switch in the correct position for your application will optimize the performance of your Folcrii.

Awesome. Thanks Justin. I left you a phone message today. Give me a ring when you can.... Thanks!
Old 10th August 2005
  #9
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Do you need to raise the mic pre's above the usual +45 dB?

I would think noise becomes a problem than.

Also, does 32 really improve on 16 that much?

I can't imagine that it's that important unless you want that much seperation for inserting analog gear.

No?
Old 10th August 2005
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
Do you need to raise the mic pre's above the usual +45 dB?

I would think noise becomes a problem than.


...I missed that. Who said they needed 45db (or more)? I've found 35db is usually adequate (as recommended by Justin).

Are you referring to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses
When you parallel two Folcroms like this, their output impedance is also paralleled which would cut the effective output impedance, and output level, in half. But don't worry, we took care of this for you by providing a rear-panel switch which re-optimizes the summing impedance for 32-channel (linked) operation.
keeping the switch in the correct position for your application will optimize the performance of your Folcrii.
[




And it really depends on the preamp, a Buzz Audio @ 45-50db sounds basically the same as a Buzz Audio @ 35db, no detectable added noise.

But that raises an interesting question for Justin. If a 1Khz tone @ +4 is played out of 16 channels of D/A's into a Folcrom, how much gain would be required for the preamp to output +4?



Quote:
Also, does 32 really improve on 16 that much?


I personally think the more the mix is spread out, the better it sounds. But that's probably an endless debate (hopefully for another thread).

The pic of that console you are sitting in front of looks like it has a lot more than 32 channels of line level inputs. Did you only use 16 channels on it? If not, there's your answer. It really depends on the production. If you've got 16 tracks, you've got it made. If you've got 100 tracks (even 32+), I would think it would be hard to stem (cram) down to 16.



Quote:
I can't imagine that it's that important unless you want that much seperation for inserting analog gear.

No?


That's one main reason. But inserting analog gear is one of the main reasons for using a Folcrom in general IMO (among a few others).

I personally don't use a Folcrom in my studio (I use a more full featured console, otherwise I would), but my console is 28 faders...I couldn't imagine having less than 24. The stuff I produce is generally anywhere from 22-36 'real' tracks (not multiple takes, etc).
Old 10th August 2005
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

I see your point but I kind of think of the law of diminishing returns.

2 Channels to 8 Channels should be a really big improvement.

8 to 16 should be quite a bit better.

16 to 32 I would think to be quite small. But I could be wrong.

Thanks
Old 29th December 2010
  #12
Gear Addict
 

i was recently thinking it could be cool to use a second folcrom for drums only, and not link it to the second folcrom. this way you're summing drums entirely OTB, but have the opportunity to flavor them with their own preamp and strap a compressor across it. then patch that processed, line level L/R drum mix into the other folcrom as a stem, leaving you 14 channels open for the rest of the mix.

the pitfall of the folcrom seems to be the inability to create sub groups with inserts post OTB summing. not being able to process drums as a group is a bummer. this would be one workaround...

any issues with two rounds of passive summing + makeup gain?
Old 25th September 2011
  #13
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bump ^ ?
Old 25th September 2011
  #14
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dandeurloo's Avatar
I hope this makes sense and I understood your question properly. I think what you are talking about is basically how I work most of the time.

Line level is Line level so it's no problem to do what you are asking. You can just think of it as a sidecar that you bring up on 2 channels of another console or in your case another folcrom. This is cool because you can use say Neve pres for the drums and API for the overall mix or the other way around. Its a creative way to add more control and character to your mixes.
Old 25th September 2011
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
I hope this makes sense and I understood your question properly. I think what you are talking about is basically how I work most of the time.

Line level is Line level so it's no problem to do what you are asking. You can just think of it as a sidecar that you bring up on 2 channels of another console or in your case another folcrom. This is cool because you can use say Neve pres for the drums and API for the overall mix or the other way around. Its a creative way to add more control and character to your mixes.
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