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Peluso CM-47SE vrs Advanced Audio CM-47
Old 27th May 2009
  #1
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Tube World's Avatar
Peluso CM-47SE vrs Advanced Audio CM-47

How does the CM-47 hold up against the CM-47SE?
Old 27th May 2009
  #2
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dandeurloo's Avatar
Are you asking about the different capsule options in the AA CM 47's? Or comparing the AA to a Peluso?
Old 27th May 2009
  #3
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I haven't had the AA CM-47 in the same room with a Peluso, but I did put it up against a Wunder CM-7. Check out the May/June TapeOp for the review. I though it was great. Yeah, the Wunder was a bit better, but not by yards....AA makes great stuff.

Kirt Shearer
Old 27th May 2009
  #4
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dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbshearer View Post
I haven't had the AA CM-47 in the same room with a Peluso, but I did put it up against a Wunder CM-7. Check out the May/June TapeOp for the review. I though it was great. Yeah, the Wunder was a bit better, but not by yards....AA makes great stuff.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

Just read your review in Tape Op. I love that magazine!
Old 27th May 2009
  #5
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Tube World's Avatar
This thread was started because of your review in Tap Op. Though it was a very good review, I was disapointed that it was not compared to something closer in price range. You mentioned the CM-47SE in your review, and it would of been great to hear these two against each other in a shootout.

John Kern did a shootout with the CM7-GT against the Peluso CM 47SE on gearslutz. I did like the CM7-GT better, which kinda turned me off to the Peluso which was not as smooth nor did it have the pleasant top end of the CM7-Gt. However the CM7-GT is out of my price range so the serach continues.

Anyone find a MP3 of the AA CM-47? I am wondering if this has a more pleasant top end over the Peluso.
Old 27th May 2009
  #6
Gear Nut
 

CM47

Hello, I think you mean the Peluso 2247SE compared to our CM47?

The capsule in our CM47 is made from the same brass metalwork as the Peluso used in the 2247SE so it is basically a CEK367 capsule but it is skinned in China to our specifications. Once the microphone arrives here we check them to make sure they are consistent and we have plenty of replacement capsules. We also polarize the capsule in our CM47 at the same voltage as the original U47. As the polarization voltage increases the upper midrange response of the capsules increases and the capsule becomes more sensitive. We also take care to make sure the capsule is mounted at the same height in the head grill as the original U47 which helps diffuse some of the sibilant frequencies.

The CEK367 and the CK67 capsule that we use in our CM47 has a low to midrange response similar to a K67 capsule used in the U67 and U87 Neumann microphones. The high end is not quite as bright as the K67 but a db or so brighter than the K47 capsule above 5khz to 14khz.

The 2247SE uses a traditional Neumann type single stage tube circuit with an older metal UF14 type tube which can be very expensive to replace as is the tube in the Wunder Audio C47. In my 45 years of experience working with tube circuits I cannot justify the extra expense of these esoteric old metal tubes compared to the later more HiFi specs of the 6072 which are still very reasonable. However, the circuit must be optimized for the 6072 which is what we spent a lot of time doing.

With our microphone if the tube fails which is unusual you can simply pull a 12AT7 from any Fender tube guitar amplifier and put it into the CM47 with about a 2db difference in level. You will be able to finish the vocal session without having to order in a tube that can cost nearly half as much as our CM47 microphone.

We use a two stage tube circuit which has a front end (capsule to tube circuit) similar to a the ELAM 251 and the second half of the 6072 is configured as a CF output line driver amp that feeds the same transformer as the 2247. The transformer is a dual bobbin with a BV8 turns ratio and the CF output drives this very nicely as it is a great choice for driving transformers because of the fast damping fact.

The Wunder Audio C47 uses a larger transformer based on the original transformer used in the first 200 Neumann U47 microphones. These transformers were wound onto a power transformer core and the HF response rolls out quicker than the later transformers. This is why the Wunder C47 is darker sounding.

In our CM47SE which are custom build we use the Peluso PK47 capsule which has the same single backplate and drilling pattern as the original K47 capsule used in all U47 microphones made after 1958. The lower midrange has a bit more authority in the PK47 when used in Cardiod and the proximity effect is a bit wider.

Interestingly, during my tenure at Ocean Sound in Vancouver we had two U47 microphones. One was made in 1953 and the other in 1958. One was darker than the other but both microphones sounded very good. However, the difference between these two stock U47 microphones was greater than the difference between any two of our CM47 mcirophones.

Recently, Paul Hyde of the Payolas was recorded with our CM47 and CM12 for his latest Solo CD. In solo the CM47 was the overall choice of the producer and engineer but when the two microphone were compared to each other in the track the brighter CM12 was chosen.

As Kirk states, the CM47 can sound almost identical to the C47 with just a tweak of EQ which can save you nearly $6000.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
Advanced Audio Microphones



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube World View Post
How does the CM-47 hold up against the CM-47SE?
Old 27th May 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, I just didn't have a Peluso to compare it to.....so I thought I'd do the unfair Wunder comparison. I believe that the AA, especially with the Peluso capsule, would at least match and probably exceed the Peluso....for less money. Now, I can't swear to that since I haven't had them side by side. The mic I reviewed had the standard capsule.

Kirt Shearer
Old 27th May 2009
  #8
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drtaudio View Post
Hello, I think you mean the Peluso 2247SE compared to our CM47?

The capsule in our CM47 is made from the same brass metalwork as the Peluso used in the 2247SE so it is basically a CEK367 capsule but it is skinned in China to our specifications. Once the microphone arrives here we check them to make sure they are consistent and we have plenty of replacement capsules. We also polarize the capsule in our CM47 at the same voltage as the original U47. As the polarization voltage increases the upper midrange response of the capsules increases and the capsule becomes more sensitive. We also take care to make sure the capsule is mounted at the same height in the head grill as the original U47 which helps diffuse some of the sibilant frequencies.

The CEK367 and the CK67 capsule that we use in our CM47 has a low to midrange response similar to a K67 capsule used in the U67 and U87 Neumann microphones. The high end is not quite as bright as the K67 but a db or so brighter than the K47 capsule above 5khz to 14khz.

The 2247SE uses a traditional Neumann type single stage tube circuit with an older metal UF14 type tube which can be very expensive to replace as is the tube in the Wunder Audio C47. In my 45 years of experience working with tube circuits I cannot justify the extra expense of these esoteric old metal tubes compared to the later more HiFi specs of the 6072 which are still very reasonable. However, the circuit must be optimized for the 6072 which is what we spent a lot of time doing.

With our microphone if the tube fails which is unusual you can simply pull a 12AT7 from any Fender tube guitar amplifier and put it into the CM47 with about a 2db difference in level. You will be able to finish the vocal session without having to order in a tube that can cost nearly half as much as our CM47 microphone.

We use a two stage tube circuit which has a front end (capsule to tube circuit) similar to a the ELAM 251 and the second half of the 6072 is configured as a CF output line driver amp that feeds the same transformer as the 2247. The transformer is a dual bobbin with a BV8 turns ratio and the CF output drives this very nicely as it is a great choice for driving transformers because of the fast damping fact.

The Wunder Audio C47 uses a larger transformer based on the original transformer used in the first 200 Neumann U47 microphones. These transformers were wound onto a power transformer core and the HF response rolls out quicker than the later transformers. This is why the Wunder C47 is darker sounding.

In our CM47SE which are custom build we use the Peluso PK47 capsule which has the same single backplate and drilling pattern as the original K47 capsule used in all U47 microphones made after 1958. The lower midrange has a bit more authority in the PK47 when used in Cardiod and the proximity effect is a bit wider.

Interestingly, during my tenure at Ocean Sound in Vancouver we had two U47 microphones. One was made in 1953 and the other in 1958. One was darker than the other but both microphones sounded very good. However, the difference between these two stock U47 microphones was greater than the difference between any two of our CM47 mcirophones.

Recently, Paul Hyde of the Payolas was recorded with our CM47 and CM12 for his latest Solo CD. In solo the CM47 was the overall choice of the producer and engineer but when the two microphone were compared to each other in the track the brighter CM12 was chosen.

As Kirk states, the CM47 can sound almost identical to the C47 with just a tweak of EQ which can save you nearly $6000.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
Advanced Audio Microphones
Thanks for the info. Does the SE have a darker sound compared to the original? Does it also have a longer capsule? It seems based on your photos that the CM47 has short capsule, while the Peluso has a longer capsule. I would think your SE version has the same length capsule then of the Peluso?

I have a couple of suggestions

1. No where on your site did I find an explanation on the difference between the CM47 and CM47SE, just that the SE cost more...unless I missed it.

2. I called your number this morning and got a recording but the recording did not even mention the name of the company. I was not sure if it was the right number. No address or State of where you are located was found either.
Old 27th May 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Hey....I retract that statement since I have not had them side by side. It was an opinion, but I don't have proof of it.

Kirt Shearer
Old 27th May 2009
  #10
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The Phoenix's Avatar
I made the mistake of buying from AA once. That will be enough for me.
Old 27th May 2009
  #11
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceactor View Post
I made the mistake of buying from AA once. That will be enough for me.
Thats too much of a general statement. What did you not like about the mic you bought? How was customer service, what did you end up getting to replace the mic you bought?
Old 27th May 2009
  #12
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The Phoenix's Avatar
I try hard not to bad mouth any business. What I will say is the same as many others have said, the service is bad..the communication is bad. There were pages of complaints on the net at one time.
Warranty on mine...non existant. I finally just gave it away...a nice way to spend 800.00

nuff said.
Old 27th May 2009
  #13
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dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceactor View Post
I try hard not to bad mouth any business. What I will say is the same as many others have said, the service is bad..the communication is bad. There were pages of complaints on the net at one time.
Warranty on mine...non existant. I finally just gave it away...a nice way to spend 800.00

nuff said.

Hmm. that sucks. I have had a completely different experience. Dave has been extremely helpful with his gear and even insightful with other questions I've had.
Old 27th May 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceactor View Post
I try hard not to bad mouth any business. What I will say is the same as many others have said, the service is bad..the communication is bad. There were pages of complaints on the net at one time.
Warranty on mine...non existant. I finally just gave it away...a nice way to spend 800.00

nuff said.
I don't claim to have done the ultimate search, but I have not been able to find the "pages of complaints" you speak of. Could you perhaps PM me with a link?

Kirt Shearer
Old 27th May 2009
  #15
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbshearer View Post
I don't claim to have done the ultimate search, but I have not been able to find the "pages of complaints" you speak of. Could you perhaps PM me with a link?

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios
Me thinks me smells a troll
Old 27th May 2009
  #16
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drtaudio View Post
Hello, I think you mean the Peluso 2247SE compared to our CM47?

The capsule in our CM47 is made from the same brass metalwork as the Peluso used in the 2247SE so it is basically a CEK367 capsule but it is skinned in China to our specifications. Once the microphone arrives here we check them to make sure they are consistent and we have plenty of replacement capsules. We also polarize the capsule in our CM47 at the same voltage as the original U47. As the polarization voltage increases the upper midrange response of the capsules increases and the capsule becomes more sensitive. We also take care to make sure the capsule is mounted at the same height in the head grill as the original U47 which helps diffuse some of the sibilant frequencies.

The CEK367 and the CK67 capsule that we use in our CM47 has a low to midrange response similar to a K67 capsule used in the U67 and U87 Neumann microphones. The high end is not quite as bright as the K67 but a db or so brighter than the K47 capsule above 5khz to 14khz.

The 2247SE uses a traditional Neumann type single stage tube circuit with an older metal UF14 type tube which can be very expensive to replace as is the tube in the Wunder Audio C47. In my 45 years of experience working with tube circuits I cannot justify the extra expense of these esoteric old metal tubes compared to the later more HiFi specs of the 6072 which are still very reasonable. However, the circuit must be optimized for the 6072 which is what we spent a lot of time doing.

With our microphone if the tube fails which is unusual you can simply pull a 12AT7 from any Fender tube guitar amplifier and put it into the CM47 with about a 2db difference in level. You will be able to finish the vocal session without having to order in a tube that can cost nearly half as much as our CM47 microphone.

We use a two stage tube circuit which has a front end (capsule to tube circuit) similar to a the ELAM 251 and the second half of the 6072 is configured as a CF output line driver amp that feeds the same transformer as the 2247. The transformer is a dual bobbin with a BV8 turns ratio and the CF output drives this very nicely as it is a great choice for driving transformers because of the fast damping fact.

The Wunder Audio C47 uses a larger transformer based on the original transformer used in the first 200 Neumann U47 microphones. These transformers were wound onto a power transformer core and the HF response rolls out quicker than the later transformers. This is why the Wunder C47 is darker sounding.

In our CM47SE which are custom build we use the Peluso PK47 capsule which has the same single backplate and drilling pattern as the original K47 capsule used in all U47 microphones made after 1958. The lower midrange has a bit more authority in the PK47 when used in Cardiod and the proximity effect is a bit wider.

Interestingly, during my tenure at Ocean Sound in Vancouver we had two U47 microphones. One was made in 1953 and the other in 1958. One was darker than the other but both microphones sounded very good. However, the difference between these two stock U47 microphones was greater than the difference between any two of our CM47 mcirophones.

Recently, Paul Hyde of the Payolas was recorded with our CM47 and CM12 for his latest Solo CD. In solo the CM47 was the overall choice of the producer and engineer but when the two microphone were compared to each other in the track the brighter CM12 was chosen.

As Kirk states, the CM47 can sound almost identical to the C47 with just a tweak of EQ which can save you nearly $6000.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
Advanced Audio Microphones
Dave, please advise what kind of warranty you have on your mic's.

Thanks
Old 27th May 2009
  #17
Gear Nut
 

CM47

Hello, yes you called at 6:30 am West Coast time and my DND setting was on the phone which I can't leave a recorded message on.

I had just left to drive my wife to work.

We are located in Summerland, BC Canada about 4 hours east of Vancouver by car.

The body is slightly shorter on our CM47 than the Peluso 2247 and we did this purposely to have the capsule height be shadowed by the horizontal top bar on the grill like the original U47. These seems to diffuse some of the sibilance frequencies.

The only difference between the CM47 and the CM47SE is the SE comes with a Peluso PK47 capsule. We will be updating the CM47SE information shortly but I am still experimenting with a slightly different circuit which we might incorporate into the CM47SE but it has not be field tested yet.

Cheers, Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube World View Post
Thanks for the info. Does the SE have a darker sound compared to the original? Does it also have a longer capsule? It seems based on your photos that the CM47 has short capsule, while the Peluso has a longer capsule. I would think your SE version has the same length capsule then of the Peluso?

I have a couple of suggestions

1. No where on your site did I find an explanation on the difference between the CM47 and CM47SE, just that the SE cost more...unless I missed it.

2. I called your number this morning and got a recording but the recording did not even mention the name of the company. I was not sure if it was the right number. No address or State of where you are located was found either.
Old 27th May 2009
  #18
Gear Nut
 

CM87

Hi Greg, that is absolutely not true. I worked with you for many weeks and sent you two different versions of the microphone with different capsules and output transformers. We must have traded at least 20 e-mails.

In the end I was really not clear what you wanted?

I got an e-mail from the fella who got your microphone and he seems quite happy with it?

Cheers, Dave
Old 27th May 2009
  #19
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drtaudio View Post
Hello, yes you called at 6:30 am West Coast time and my DND setting was on the phone which I can't leave a recorded message on.

I had just left to drive my wife to work.

We are located in Summerland, BC Canada about 4 hours east of Vancouver by car.

The body is slightly shorter on our CM47 than the Peluso 2247 and we did this purposely to have the capsule height be shadowed by the horizontal top bar on the grill like the original U47. These seems to diffuse some of the sibilance frequencies.

The only difference between the CM47 and the CM47SE is the SE comes with a Peluso PK47 capsule. We will be updating the CM47SE information shortly but I am still experimenting with a slightly different circuit which we might incorporate into the CM47SE but it has not be field tested yet.

Cheers, Dave
A different capule is a big deal. I would think this would change the character of the mic to some degree...no?
Old 27th May 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
 

CM47

Yes, there is a difference in the character of the low mid response because of the more complicated drill pattern of the K47 type capsule and its single width back-plate. This is why we offer the PK47 option with our CM47SE.

If you e-mail me directly I can send you a sound file of a CM47 and CM47SE with narration as I am not a singer. I believe the Wunder Audio C47 has a K47 type capsule and that is the slight difference Kirt was hearing.

Cheers, Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube World View Post
A different capule is a big deal. I would think this would change the character of the mic to some degree...no?
Old 27th May 2009
  #21
Lives for gear
Hey Dave,

does your cm47fet cardoid only model have the same higher voltage biased capsule that you're talking about so it would share a similar tone as your other cm47 models in cardoid mode?

I've been thinking about dropping by RPE in burnaby to pick one up, they're pretty inexpensive ($300 or something?) and I've only read good things about them.

PS - I might be in kelowna briefly in july so might have to arrange to pop by while I pass by summerland and see where you do your great work!

cheers,
Don
Old 27th May 2009
  #22
Gear Nut
 

CM47fet

Hi Don, I don't think Andrew at RP has any of the CM47fet microphones left as I was sure I picked up the last of them before the New Year. Initially, Andrew and I brought them in together but I ended up selling the majority as there were very few sales directly through RP Electronics. So I made a deal to take them all from him last year. He might still have a demo around.

I have a new version that comes with an OMNI/CARDIOD option and sells for the same price.

It has the same capsule as the older version except it is double-sided giving it the OMNI/Card option. Paul Baker and Craig Northey both have them and really like them. Paul and a few other folk have been using them IN FRONT of the kick drum.

The CM47fet is biased at 48 volts and it uses a slightly different capsule than our CM47. The low end rolls out a bit earlier like the M7 and there is a slight bump in the 2-3khz range.

If you e-mail me directly I can give you the Canadian price.

Feel free to drop by and we can pop up to one of the local wineries and do some wine tasting. It is like Tuscanny hear in the summer and there are quite often some good local musicians playing on the patio of the local wineries.

If you come in mid July I will have our new CM87 version and some samples of a tube ribbon microphone plus our new CM28a tube pencil microphone that comes with 3 different capsules.

Cheers, Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelley View Post
Hey Dave,

does your cm47fet cardoid only model have the same higher voltage biased capsule that you're talking about so it would share a similar tone as your other cm47 models in cardoid mode?

I've been thinking about dropping by RPE in burnaby to pick one up, they're pretty inexpensive ($300 or something?) and I've only read good things about them.

PS - I might be in kelowna briefly in july so might have to arrange to pop by while I pass by summerland and see where you do your great work!

cheers,
Don
Old 27th May 2009
  #23
Lives for gear
 
The Phoenix's Avatar
I got an e-mail from the fella who got your microphone and he seems quite happy with it?

In all fairness, the one the fella got, was the CM 47se, which did sound decent
Old 19th February 2010
  #24
Here for the gear
 

Drtaudio

Hi,
i've just began my search for a U47 clone this week (which led from a Joly mod Sputnik to a peluso to wunder and finally to your CM-47 (Ebay $600)
I was thinking now of upgrading it to a CM47SE...is there a "best" contact to ask you about that?

PS
thanks to all the opinionated "Slutz" who indirectly helped me in my quest
Old 19th February 2010
  #25
Hey, cool, I didn't realize your company is based in BC (where I live).
I think I'll give one or two of your models I a try on my next purchase, and send some others in the market your way as well.
Old 11th March 2010
  #26
Gear Nut
 

bad service???

Hi Greg, you forgot to mention than we changed capsules twice for you and you were still not satisfied. The first version had a Peluso CEK367 and then we sent it back with a CEK12 Peluso capsule then finally we put in a 32mm capsule that is used in the TELE MK16 to see if that would make you happy but this is the one you really disliked.

You didn't have to give it away. If you had returned it we would have given you your money back less all the shipping charges within 30 days.

In the meantime, other folks have made award winning recordings with our microphones. Four microphones identical to the first one we sent were used to record voice for a Marvel comic cartoon series.

Cheers, Dave







Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceactor View Post
I try hard not to bad mouth any business. What I will say is the same as many others have said, the service is bad..the communication is bad. There were pages of complaints on the net at one time.
Warranty on mine...non existant. I finally just gave it away...a nice way to spend 800.00

nuff said.
Old 28th March 2010
  #27
Here for the gear
 

Proud new owner of a cm47

Ok I'm a new owner of a cm47 stock version. I was messin around with a song in GarageBand with an AT4040. I'm starting to do over tracks that sound bad with the 4040. The cm47 has nice rich tone that wakes the song up. The 4040 was boxy and weak. BUt I'm still gonna use some parts in the song that did come out usuable. I tried to use a jollymod pk219 but lacked in all areas the at4040 killed the jollymod.jollymods only good for spoken word/voice overs. I will soon post clIps on the song . Mic sounds great thank you Dave!!!!!!!!!!
Old 28th March 2010
  #28
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Hi!

I just wanna say that Dave have been great to me. I bought the CM47 and it's a beautiful mic. My friend bought two cm47 fet. We didn't have any problems with the order. Everything went well and the microphones where delivered fast to Sweden.

Dave is a great guy! Hope I get a chance to meet you in person next time I visit Kelowna.

Thx!
Old 28th March 2010
  #29
Here for the gear
 

Jollymod pk219

Let me add info on the jollymod. It still is a good microphone with high detail. But for rock vocals it did not do well. It distorted way to easy. I see this microphone for instuments, spoken word, and voice overs. Really great for voice overs because it's not siblant and it's a very quiet microphone. Just to clarify.
Old 28th March 2010
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Mk219

Just to clarify again it's the mk219 sorry. Also to comment on daves service. Yes it's not like ordering from sweetwater getting some gear in 2 days . But like they always say... good things come to those who wait.
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