The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Buzz Feiten Tuning System: Any Experiences?
Old 9th August 2005
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark107
Les Pauls are among the harder guitars to get in tune (REALLY in tune) because of the shorter scale length (hence looser strings - less tension), as well as the highly angled headstock. The angled headstock puts a lot on downward pressure on the nut, making tuning a moving target. For example, you bend a string, and the string slides over the nut as it is "pulled". Because of the excessive downward pressue, the string usually doesn't slide all the way back. Simple physics of friction. Now you are flat. A non-friction nut helps greatly with this, but is not supplied stock from Gibson. Now none of this has anything to do with our discussion about how nut PLACEMENT effects guitar intonation. But Les Pauls by design are further afflicted with issues that, though not unique to that design, but present nonetheless. The fact that LP players tend to use light-to-extra-light strings only makes matter worse. Of course a lot of LP players are rock guys, who often don't need very exacting intonation, but if you are on of those who do, owning an LP is not an easy path to intonation bliss.
Exactly. This is what I was getting at but did not include in my already long winded reply.

Les Pauls all have a thing with intonation. I use 11's (and when I am in shape 12's) on my Strat but anything over 10's on my Paul just do not sound right. With 10's this issue is not as bad but it is always there due to the points above. 10's help because the tension on the strings holds it together a bit more. My take has always been that the headstock angle is the culprit on the Les Paul but there are other tricks to help with that as well, see the graphite trick in my post above.

Anyway a tool that helps me to get back even 5% of my intonation on my Paul is worth the $35 I paid for it....

heh

Quote:
Anyhow, sorry if my stridency was annoying. I think I've just been in an annoying mood, lately. Heaven knows, I've been annoying myself.
It's all good man...
Old 10th August 2005
  #62
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 

Thanks for all of the interesting and enlightening discussions.

So, two of my guitars are now being "Feitenized". I should get them back in a week to a week and a half.

Will report back.
Old 10th August 2005
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWgEAR
Thanks for all of the interesting and enlightening discussions.

So, two of my guitars are now being "Feitenized". I should get them back in a week to a week and a half.

Will report back.
Yes please do, I would love to hear you take on it.

thumbsup
Old 10th August 2005
  #64
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Yes please do, I would love to hear you take on it.

thumbsup
what would be even more interesting would be getting one feintenized and one have the earvna nut installed and then compare the 2...
Old 10th August 2005
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit
what would be even more interesting would be getting one feintenized and one have the earvna nut installed and then compare the 2...
Yep I was thinking that as well but I didn't want to push it....

heh
Old 10th August 2005
  #66
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 

It would have been nice to do do a comparison. However, as always, funds and time are limited.

I have a feeling that either system would be an improvement. How big of an improvement in the case of the BFTS remains to be heard. I've been playing for over 20 years and I am one of those people who are very sensitive and picky when it comes to tuning. So any improvement will be welcome.

For me it boiled down to:

(i) lots of authorized Feiten installers in my area and no authorized Earvana installers nearby

(ii) the availability of at least two tuners with BFTS presets

(iii) many more well known guitarists and manufacturers endorsing the BFTS (not that this alone should receive that much weight, but it is one of several factors in the overall equation)

and probably most important,

(iv) I called around to get quotes and "interview" various techs over the phone and the I was really impressed by the knowledge and professionalism of the guy I ended up going with. Some techs sounded very vague and fuzzy regarding their knowledge about the system, some never returned my call, some quoted outrageous prices (there is a suggested price at buzzfeiten.com), and one guy incorrectly said, and I quote, "Your PRS guitar already has the BFTS installed at the factory." You can tell that guy has worked on a lot of a PRS guitars ... not! Imagine the nightmare of having him set up your PRS!!!
Old 10th August 2005
  #67
Cool DAWgEAR, thanks.

So if I am ask, how much were your quotes for getting the system installed??
Old 10th August 2005
  #68
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 

I received quotes between $139 (suggested at the BFTS site) and $200 per installation for the BFTS.
Old 10th August 2005
  #69
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark107
"Pretty much" is the operative term here. For some people, it's clearly not good emough. Setting intonation using open strings will likely yield errors, as the open strings are flat, and some more than others. All of this is very easy to see with a strobe tuner. It would be better to set intoation with the 1st fret and 13th fret, thereby removing the open strings from the equation, but of course you still have this lingering problem. But like I said, playing with a strobe tuner for five minutes will quickly end a lifetime of misconceptions. When you see frets 1-5 more or less read the same, but the open string read flat, you can never go back to believeing that your guitar intonation is "okay".
Truth.

My only point is that every player has a different touch and that WILL affect your perfect intonation. I use .11's on my guitars and I NEED the open strings to be a hair flat because when I'm playing open chords they'll go a bit sharp. At the same time, all notes will go a bit flat as they decay so it should be tuned a hair sharp to allow for that.

Let's get REALLY picky about it. Take your "perfectly" intonated guitars out of their climate controlled homes and move them to an outdoor gig or a club with a way different air tempature and humidity and your "perfect" intonation is no longer perfect. Even the Buzz Feiten system won't help that, unless you've got a Modulus or some other grapite instrument that isn't affected by climate changes.

Man, in my 15+ years of playing I've tried just about everything to make a guitar play more in-tune and you'll never get it better then 90-95% across the board. YMMV but mine sure hasn't.
Old 10th August 2005
  #70
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWgEAR
It would have been nice to do do a comparison. However, as always, funds and time are limited.

I have a feeling that either system would be an improvement. How big of an improvement in the case of the BFTS remains to be heard. I've been playing for over 20 years and I am one of those people who are very sensitive and picky when it comes to tuning. So any improvement will be welcome.

For me it boiled down to:

(i) lots of authorized Feiten installers in my area and no authorized Earvana installers nearby

(ii) the availability of at least two tuners with BFTS presets

(iii) many more well known guitarists and manufacturers endorsing the BFTS (not that this alone should receive that much weight, but it is one of several factors in the overall equation)

and probably most important,

(iv) I called around to get quotes and "interview" various techs over the phone and the I was really impressed by the knowledge and professionalism of the guy I ended up going with. Some techs sounded very vague and fuzzy regarding their knowledge about the system, some never returned my call, some quoted outrageous prices (there is a suggested price at buzzfeiten.com), and one guy incorrectly said, and I quote, "Your PRS guitar already has the BFTS installed at the factory." You can tell that guy has worked on a lot of a PRS guitars ... not! Imagine the nightmare of having him set up your PRS!!!
the only reason it would be smart is that i think the earvana is so cheap (and reversable..)

either way, i hope it works well on your guitars.
Old 26th August 2005
  #71
Lives for gear
 
DAWgEAR's Avatar
 

I got my Feitenized guitars back a week ago and I am happy with the results.

It makes a moderate but noticable improvement, IMO. It's not as drastic as night and day. A kid playing in a garage band probably wouldn't appreciate the difference. But someone who struggles with recording guitars certainly would.

Not that I am able to rigorously quantify the effect, but I'd say the guitars sound 5, maybe 10, percent more in tune. Ain't it that way with most of our slutty expenditures? The difference between a $800 guitar or amp and a $2800 guitar or amp is probably about 5 or 10 percent or less. But, slutz that we are, we will pursue that last 5 percent.

I'm using Peterson virtual tuners: my old VS-1 for portability and I just bought the StroboSoft Deluxe for my DAW.

Obviously, it's most noticable with chords: the way they ring a bit truer and sustain is very pleasant and satisfying.

I think it is very much worth the $139 I paid. I figure a complete setup plus new nut (non-Feiten) would have cost about $75 - $100 anyway, so the marginal cost of getting Feitetnized is about $40 - $65. Not bad for what you get. I've paid way more for stomboxes and other gear hoping for a 5 percent tone improvement.
Old 28th August 2005
  #72
Here for the gear
 
blueguitar's Avatar
 

As a BFTS licensed retrofitter, I would like to add to the cost-benefit side of this discussion. First, I am convinced of the benefits as there is a vast improvement in the ability of the instrument to play chord groupings which are sweeter to the ear than without the system. As DAWgEAR noted: "I think it is very much worth the $139 I paid. I figure a complete setup plus new nut (non-Feiten) would have cost about $75 - $100 anyway, so the marginal cost of getting Feitetnized is about $40 - $65. Not bad for what you get." The BFTS is not an easy install when trying to achieve best performance and looks. The nicely cut "bone" nut blank contains compound considerations when fitting to the guitar. I can cut and fit 2-3 standard bone nuts in the same time it takes to correctly fit the BFTS. Also, there is always the risk of mistake and at almost $40 per BFTS nut blank to the retrofitter there is a downside potential financially to return the perfect system back to the player. Bottom line is this is a great system well worth the cost if done correctly. Don't let the $139 scare you. "Buy the best, you'll never regret it".
Old 27th September 2007
  #73
Gear Addict
 
themixtape's Avatar
Buzz Feiten for lefties?

Hey guys, I'm a lefty who just picked up an Epiphone Dot semi-hollow body. I love the tone, and it stays in tune pretty decently, however, being the anal "perfect chord tone" person that I am... and the inability to pay for a $3,000 Gibson Custom Les Paul... I'm thinking about the Buzz Feiten retrofit for my guitar.

I just can't find any information about it, other than it works.... does anyone know if this system can be installed on a lefty guitar? Seems like it could... I have seen some of the higher-end guitars have the BFTS installed standard (from a UK-based lefty guitar website).... but I can't find any info other than that.

Thanks for any help!

-Chris
Old 27th September 2007
  #74
Gear Addict
 
lane thaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWgEAR View Post
I got my Feitenized guitars back a week ago and I am happy with the results.

It makes a moderate but noticable improvement, IMO. It's not as drastic as night and day. Not that I am able to rigorously quantify the effect, but I'd say the guitars sound 5, maybe 10, percent more in tune. I think it is very much worth the $139 I paid.
I could have written this myself - had both my gigging guitars done, Strat and Tele. Nice but small improvement. Used Cotter Guitars in Charlotte (Chris was trained by Buzz).
Old 27th September 2007
  #75
Lives for gear
 
midnightsun's Avatar
 

I have a guitar with the BFT system that John Suhr made for me. A strobe tuner is necessary no only for intonating the guitar, but also for tuning the guitar. I hear a great deal of discussion to the contrary. This guitar is the most "fret true" guitar I have. Studying the physics reveals that a guitar can never be "true" or "perfect" up and down the entire neck on all strings. There will always be compromises. I look at the BFT system as a way of biasing the tuning so that the averages are more true.

Perhaps Buzz himself could get on this forum and clear this up.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump