The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Edward the Compressor
Old 1st May 2003
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Is it true that the MTA- TF A-range jobbies used some mind of IC in the mic input stage instead of the original type mic input design.

BTW.. as a true slut u should make the fat ass trannies for the new offerings.

Also was the main differences between A and B ranges?.... there was a crop of B-ranges floating around for cheap a few years ago, but i never capitalised on them cos others had warned of terrible tech problems.. like hair raising nightmare problems.

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 1st May 2003
  #32
Rab
KMR Audio
 
Rab's Avatar
 

I'd also love to know this. I've been sitting on the offer of a MTA-Trident S80B channel for a while now (very cheap). I'm a big fan of the desk but have heard all sorts of stories about what's actually inside this box. And if there are any cut-corners, are they easily fixed?
Old 1st May 2003
  #33
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
Alan,
If everyone has such a hard time stopping Behringer from copying stuff, why do you think your case will play out differently? I just recently won a court case and have yet to see a dime for my winnings so I'd hate to see you lose your money and not accomplish your goals. I wish you luck.
Old 1st May 2003
  #34
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
Alan,
If everyone has such a hard time stopping Behringer from copying stuff, why do you think your case will play out differently? I just recently won a court case and have yet to see a dime for my winnings so I'd hate to see you lose your money and not accomplish your goals. I wish you luck.
Actually, Behringer lost to Aphex and DBX and had to pay some big sums, but to them, it was less than all the R&D costs they would have had to do, so to them it was worth it.

Regarding Ted, well this case is a different story. He has no money to even defend our actions, so this will be a fast slam dunk once the case is ready to go to court. I am really sorry it has even come to this. I wish Ted had just done what he was supposed to do. They still refer everything they do to Joemeek, and that is passing off which is a no no... Their distributor in the UK is JM Uk...I wonder what you think that stands for, and then when you look at his products, the first thing you say is...Look, a Red Meek! That is why we are forced to stop him.
Old 1st May 2003
  #35
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Rab
I'd also love to know this. I've been sitting on the offer of a MTA-Trident S80B channel for a while now (very cheap). I'm a big fan of the desk but have heard all sorts of stories about what's actually inside this box. And if there are any cut-corners, are they easily fixed?
Rab, do you mean the 2U dual channel black Box from Ted Fletcher that is the 80B? That was done by Malcolm and it is a good unit. Be sure it is the Black Box.
Old 1st May 2003
  #36
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Is it true that the MTA- TF A-range jobbies used some mind of IC in the mic input stage instead of the original type mic input design.

BTW.. as a true slut u should make the fat ass trannies for the new offerings.

Also was the main differences between A and B ranges?.... there was a crop of B-ranges floating around for cheap a few years ago, but i never capitalised on them cos others had warned of terrible tech problems.. like hair raising nightmare problems.

PEACE
Wiggy
Wiggy,

All Trident-MTA products used an IC front end, with the exception of the A Range that used a transformer, but it was noisy. When we get to the A Range, we will do it right, or we won't do it at all. As for the differences between the A & B modules, well there was alot. The A range used coil inductive EQ for one. It was a totally different design that sounded great, but was very colored. The B range was very clean yet musical.

There is so much about all these boxes that are out there, it is hard to decide what to do. The 80 is now covered in the new Toft Audio Design ATC-2, and the 908 console is done on the AFC-2. You can look at what Malcolm is doing at HERE
Old 2nd May 2003
  #37
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alanhyatt
As the owner of Joemeek, let me tell you some of the issues here. All of the new TFPro boxes in Red are not CE certified, nor do they have any Electrical Certification. This is very dangerous, yet Ted Fletcher puts CE on the new TFPRO units, and that is also illegal. If none of this bothers you, then no problem here.
As I understand it, the CE mark is only required on product exported or sold to countries within the EEC. Also, a manufacturer can self certify a product, however, the manufacturer must have an agent within the EEC country to which the product is exported who will take full responsibilty if the product is found not to comply to the CE directives.

Most of the CE directives are to do with EMF radiation, as found with switching power supplies in computors or digital electronic for example. Although the CE directives include electrical safety, it's very easy to meet or exceed these directives with proper sensible construction. This means for a manufacturer of a simple analog box like a compressor with a linear power supply, self certification is a safe possibility and saves quite a bit of R&D money.

Tim.
Old 2nd May 2003
  #38
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Buzz,

Proper CE certification is a legal requirement to sell in the European Union, which includes the UK. The CE mark is not an affectation you can just stamp on your products without proper testing and documentary evidence thereof. To claim you have CE certification when you do not is illegal. Proper CE testing is very expensive in the UK (minimum Β£2,000 per product, $3k USA) and it is pretty obvious they have never had it done properly, even on old Joemeek units. Mr Fletcher may have issued his own certificates of "Self-Certification", but this is legal only if he can produce documentary evidence, in the form a "Technical Construction File" for each product, that he has shown "Due Diligence" in ensuring that his products comply with CE Directives.

Not only do such Technical Construction Files almost certainly not exist, but from what I have seen of his mains-powered rack units and my own CE experiences for Toft Audio and Studio Projects, it is unlikely that they meet basic Electrical Safety standards, never mind the directives on Electromagnetic Interference and Susceptibility. You must hold a CE certificate for any CE self certification, and that costs money!
Old 2nd May 2003
  #39
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alanhyatt
Thank you Dave,

By the way, in working with an A Range the other day, we came to notice that Ted did not ground any of the XLR jacks!!! How about that. If you have your tech ground the jacks, you may see a big improvement.

While it is a very simple solution, the reason we did not see it is because who the hell would do a design and "Not" ground the Fu%#ing XLR's!
In case some of y'all think Alan's just picking on Ted Fletcher's design and build quality because of their current legal differences, it is indeed true that the XLR's in my A Rangewere NOT grounded to the system ground. I picked it up from the tech last night and have high hopes that with the I/O correctly grounded and the new ouboard power supply, it will indeed sound right (at long last).
Old 3rd May 2003
  #40
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
In case some of y'all think Alan's just picking on Ted Fletcher's design and build quality because of their current legal differences, it is indeed true that the XLR's in my A Rangewere NOT grounded to the system ground. I picked it up from the tech last night and have high hopes that with the I/O correctly grounded and the new ouboard power supply, it will indeed sound right (at long last).

Ain't life a Bitch! Well, I am glad that got sorted out for you. Let me know if you see an improvement. The more we dive into Ted's A Range, the more we find. It is too bad, he could have done it right and had a good selling unit. :D
Old 4th May 2003
  #41
....actually nothing is grounded in the A-range. Not even the frontpanel switches rotary switches has contact to the chassis. The paint job on this unit has been done WAY to good resulting in that the unit is ground-buzzing when the switches are touched...unless off course if you touch something else in the rack ???
To fix this I took the unit apart and used sand paper to rub on the back of the frontplate enabeling the switches to get contact to the chassis.
Next problem was the fact that the eq section wasn't getting sufficient power. The circuit needs 15V, but the PSU did only supply 13V
This was happening because the unit didn't get sufficient mains power. There was "only" 220V comming out of my wall, which is normal. The unit beeing CE-marked should be able to run on 230 V -10/+5 % (207-241,5), but appearently 220V was pushing it ?????
This problem was fixed by an excelent engineer that I know. He swapped all the condensators in the PSU with hi-quality condesators. Some of bigger values. Fx C5 from 100uF to 470uF.
The whole operation took away the top 0,4dB of the headroom, but I don't care; 'cause you shold really really do your self the favour of tracking kicks, snares and guitars through the A-range. How could I have lived without it before???

You MUST see Taj Mahal before you die, sure ....
....and track a kick through a U195 and an A-range It's pure magic.

Actually I just ordered a second unit :-) Last one
Old 4th May 2003
  #42
Moderator emeritus
 

I fixed the PS problems by having my tech build a whole new outboard PS. And I'm going to be investigating all the other possibilites before I put the A Range back in the rack...

Thanks for some other things to check out!
Old 5th May 2003
  #43
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by littledog
I have a feeling that Alan Hyatt's lawyers are going to be busy once again. Painting a green box red and adding one more knob may not be enough to keep Ted from getting nailed yet again...
I must have missed something... did they get sued? Details?

Thanks.
Old 5th May 2003
  #44
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Re: Edward the Compressor

Quote:
Originally posted by Gie-Sound
The P8 can be switched to behave like four complete families of compressors.
This is the disclaimer... it's a similar concept to how stuff like the 'Crane Song LTD. Trakker' or the 'Empirical Labs EL-8' might be in the 'behaves like four complete families of compressors'.

Crane Song LTD. does it with a digitally controlled 'character emulation' kinda thing... the actions of the 'gain reduction cells' are emulated from a 'control aspect' in the digital domain... however, the sound remains the same, it's just the control functions that are "emulated".

In the early days of the EL-8, it was said by us 'marketing weasels' that the EL-8 sounded like things like an LA-2A... well, it did in the respect that it was pretty much the only piece of solid state kit in current manufacture that could indeed land on a good bit of the control aspects of an LA-2A... the fact of the matter is that without the original "iron", without the ripple on the power supply rails, without all the shit that was "wrong" with LA-2A's [the shit that provided the impetus to create compressors above and beyond the capabilities of the LA-2A]... you don't have the "sound" of an LA-2A.

The fact or the matter is that things like the "Trakker" can behave like things that are 'old and cool'... things like the "Trakker" can give you a textural feel of some older devices... but a "Trakker" sounds like a "Trakker", and an "EL-8" [which has gained the acceptance and understanding of what it really is, a damn fine sounding unit... which means it doesn't require the marketing bullshit previously spewed, as damn near everyone knows what one sounds like by now] sounds like an "EL-8"... and I'm sure that while 'Eddie' will sound like 'Eddie'... the fact of the matter [at least from where I sit] is that the time for the "it sounds like a ______" bullshit has passed.

They are what they is... and if that sound is great, cool... and if that sound ain't great then it should be distributed by 'Digidesign' [did I actually type that?].

Quote:
Howard: Eddie, my friends ask me, Eddie, Eddie, are you kidding? I wanna tell you something, my friends: I am not kidding. Here at Zachary All we have sixty tailors in the back room. We have the west's largest selections of portly's, regulars, longs, extra longs, and cadets. And my friends say to me: Eddie, Eddie, what do you think of the new Double Knits?
Mark: Eddie, what do you think of the new Double Knits?
Howard: And I tell them: I'll tell you something frankly, my friends-- When the new double knits first came out, I was not impressed. But as you can see, these pants I'm wearing are double knit. They stretch in all the right places. They're the most comfortable. Our model Twiggy here will demonstrate. I have this lovely little
Seersucker . . . wait a minute
Old 5th May 2003
  #45
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

barforama,

This is one of the issues with Ted Fletcher. Nothing he does is CE certified despite the CE mark on the unit. We did not find this out until about a month ago after we started to dig into this whole mess.

He claims he self certifies, but that is not legal. Glad you got your "A range going.
Old 6th May 2003
  #46
Quote:
Originally posted by alanhyatt
By the way, in working with an A Range the other day, we came to notice that Ted did not ground any of the XLR jacks!!! How about that. If you have your tech ground the jacks, you may see a big improvement.

While it is a very simple solution, the reason we did not see it is because who the hell would do a design and "Not" ground the Fu%#ing XLR's!
Alan,

How about the Signature2 ?? I really like the EQ, but how solid is it build? (Do I have to avoid transport?)
Old 6th May 2003
  #47
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Gie-Sound
Alan,

How about the Signature2 ?? I really like the EQ, but how solid is it build? (Do I have to avoid transport?)
Signature Two is a good unit. There were no changes in the design of that unit.
Old 6th May 2003
  #48
Quote:
Originally posted by alanhyatt
Signature Two is a good unit. There were no changes in the design of that unit.
pffff.... I'm glad.....
ThanX 4 your quick reply!
Old 18th May 2003
  #49
Da Da Da Daaaaaaa (a a a f)

Horror story coming soon:

I just got my second A-range........

it sounds soo: BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
and the music is SOOO clipped! EXTREMELY!!

Talking it apart I might have discovered the problem....both output rotary faders were physically broken....

So switching those pots might do the trick. Ted claimed that the unit was allready modded for working in mainland Europe.
Damnit! Why can't these things just work?

Danny (and Ted) Fletcher really helpful though

Funny thing: this particular unit has a LINE LED (when line input is selected) my "old" one has a mic LED???? Pretty weird that they made two different frontplates....keeping in mind they only made 8,57 of those re-issues.

to be continued...
Old 18th May 2003
  #50
Moderator emeritus
 

If any of you with the MTA A range are having big hum and noise problems, you might want to do what I did - I had a tech move the power suppply outside the frame. He also beefed it up a bit. Makes a huge difference to me (the difference between useable and unuseable).

The LEDs on my unit don't reflect reality either, but I simply ignore that.
Old 18th May 2003
  #51
The LED's on my units do infact reflect on reality., but they are different on my two units (???)

And yes. Beefing up the PSU should do the job perfectly.

/torsten/
Old 19th May 2003
  #52
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by barforama
The LED's on my units do infact reflect on reality., but they are different on my two units (???)

And yes. Beefing up the PSU should do the job perfectly.

/torsten/
They only made about 48 units of the "A" Range. The reason the pots break is that there are no standoff's to support the boards. The only support they get is the nuts on the front panel. We had seen about 38% of the units have broken pots.

The LED's was a mistake that they did not want to fix, but were forced to do it by us, so that is why you will see two types. All in all it is just a very poor design that could have been done right from the start. In either case, this is what Ted Fletcher is known for, and one of the reasons he went out of business for the third time.

Good think the UK lets you start up again under a new name. We have purchased a couple of his new TFPro units, but the PC boards inside them say Joemeek, so he has not made any changes, and again is infringing on our trademark by using pc boards that say Joemeek.

Oh well, once a skunk, always a skunk! dfegad
Old 4th June 2003
  #53
48 A-range units only??? Are you sure or was that just a random small number Alan?

I have just had my sencond A-range fixed. The pot replacement didn't do the job. My tech replaced the following components and lowered the noisefloor by .....32 dB!!!!!

Here we go:

C2, 3, 4, 10, 11, 13 & C(witout number?) replaced with 120m/63V
C5 replaced with 470m/35V
REG1 replaced with 7812

So that seems to be some simple soldering work to do for all you A-range owners out there :-)

a happy man,
/torsten/
Old 4th June 2003
  #54
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Torsten,

Thanks for the tech tips. I believe there was not many more than 48 units. It was a very small run. I ordered the bulk of it, and from there if the UK sold a unit, Ted would build one up. They never had stock, but I had 48 "A" Ranges on my shelf. I still have about 4 left.

Anyway, I am glad you found some other changes. I will give this mod a shot and see what it does.

regards,
Old 4th June 2003
  #55
You have 4 left? At what price are you selling these?

/torsten/
Old 5th June 2003
  #56
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
Sorry to butt in but to continue the tone of this thread I heard a rumour that mr toft took ideas of Jon oram. Is this true?
Old 5th June 2003
  #57
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

No, but it is the other way around. John worked for Malcolm Toft for quite sometime. It was Malcolm that taught John everything he knows...

John's experience was in consumer audio, and not professional audio. It was Malcolm that showed John all about Pro Audio and Mixers.
Old 5th June 2003
  #58
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
so how come oram eq's sounds so much better?
Old 5th June 2003
  #59
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
im just teasing... i tried both mta stuff and oram stuff and to be honest none of them have impressed me .
1081 ,blue and red fr,oxford(plugin) and gml are workable and although i have'nt had the chance to try the massive passive yet i hope it should make the list...
by the way what do you make of the "phonix" and the "culture" comps from thermionic (vic keary) ?
Old 5th June 2003
  #60
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by mac black
im just teasing... i tried both mta stuff and oram stuff and to be honest none of them have impressed me .
1081 ,blue and red fr,oxford(plugin) and gml are workable and although i have'nt had the chance to try the massive passive yet i hope it should make the list...
by the way what do you make of the "phonix" and the "culture" comps from thermionic (vic keary) ?
Well...you know what they say about opinions...
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear