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Good set of monitors to contrast with NS-10m?
Old 23rd July 2005
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Good set of monitors to contrast with NS-10m?

I have had NS-10m's for a long time. In fact it is the only monitors I have ever used in my Pro Tools studio.

I am looking for a reasonably priced pair of monitors for contrast (1K). I have a small listening area. All I do in my studio is track vocals. All instruments are virtual so I seldom record instruments.

When it is time to mix, I go to a commercial facility.

Thought it might be time to get another pair of monitors to contrast with the NS-10m's.

My projects are a bit more critical now. In the past, as a songwriter, I was doing demos only. Now I am shooting for master quality. I have good mics, mic pres and converters.

A monitor that is a good contrast with the NS-10m for tracking vocals?

Thanks-fairly new to the forum, buy I'm really enjoying the input from other experiences.

Santo
Old 23rd July 2005
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Max headroom's Avatar
 

Contrast ..... the most contrast for 1k i can think of is Mackie hr 824
Old 23rd July 2005
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

I just asked my wife if I could spend more for the monitors and she said OK. So, I can raise the bar a bit.

With the NS-10's, it seems that I have to listen at a loud level to be able to hear clearly. I have an old pair of AKG studio monitor headphones that I use to compare. The headphones always sound cleaner and more clear in the upper mids and high frequencies.

It may be because I am likely deaf after all these years. I'd just like to get something fairly accurate to a/b with the yamaha's just for a different reference. Also, it would be nice to have monitors that sound OK at a softer level.

Again, I can spend more of less. Will not be used for mixing or mastering work.

Santo
Old 23rd July 2005
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
GearGeek's Avatar
 

I've got a pair of Mackie 824's and I think they're great. I really don't think you'll find anything better unless you go 2k and up. Good Luck.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #5
Lives for gear
 

As a very long term user of NS10s Ive always found that they become less clear when you drive them to hard.

Anyway some Dynaudios BM6a's or Adams P22a should be quite a contrast
Old 24th July 2005
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for the suggestions. A a number of people mentioned Event 20/20 on some of the other forums. Just curious about these compared to the NS10?

Santo
Old 24th July 2005
  #7
I used NS10m's for years (with a really cheap pair of Yamaha consumer 8" bass reflex speakers as ref) and, honest to gosh, I knew my mixes were suffering. (If I had it to do over again, I'm convinced, I would break down and EQ the monitor feed. But the bass is so non-existent, you still can't use them for mixing electronica, downtempo, hip hop, anything with extended bass. But I do use them now for casual listening as well as production work, using the passive, variable EQ curve built into my Yamaha prosumer receiver -- instead of the 'straight wire' button that I used to use, which disengaged the tone controls and even the balance, leaving only the master volume in the signal chain. Nice feature. Wish my cheapo mixing desk had it.)


Anyhow, where I went was to a pair of Event 20/20bas. I found that they improved my mixing about 300% (ok, these things are subjective, but my mixes really had bass and mid-range troubles). Those speakers are quite flat, but some folks think they need a little more dampening. Still, they were very well reviewed, and overall, I really couldn't be happier.

Subsequently, Event came out with a less powerful version for a little mroe than half the money. (Instead of the 200 watts per side biamped design -- 140/60, if I recall -- they halved it to 70/30 per woofer/tweeter.)

Earlier this year, the latest version of that speaker won a shootout of inexpensive NFM's (under a thousand bucks) in EM, as well. http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_soun...es/index2.html

I think you can pick up a pair for as little as $600 at discount. But don't rule them out just because they're 'too' inexpensive. (You can buy singles, too.)

A little farther up the food chain Studio Precision 8 at about $1300/pair: http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_even...ion/index.html. ("Event has always made good monitors, and the Studio Precision 8 Active, or ASP8, is as good as any close-field monitor on the market at any price.")




Anyhow, all that said, I've been around here long enough -- as soon as you mention some brands like Event or Mackie, you get a certain element who come in slagging...

It's actually quite amusing, since, while reasonable people can readily disagree about this sort of thing, and, no doubt, some of the slaggers are actually familiar with whatever the gear in question is, a lot of them are hopeless poseur wannabes who are just repeating something they heard somewhere else.


It's one of the reasons I hang out in places like this. heh
Old 24th July 2005
  #8
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

ADAM ANF-10 passive's [$750]
Old 24th July 2005
  #9
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

i myself am very curious as to what the 'truth' monitors are all about. i have a good feeling in my gut about them, and my gut is my best friend, it rarely lets me down.

i don't need monitors, i love the monitors i have. and yet...

must...

hear...

new gear....


btw, i use jbl 28p's with ns-10's, i'm not sure a bigger contrast exists.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 24th July 2005
  #10
Gear Nut
I had a pair of JBL 4408's for about 5 years. I used them with my NS-10's. They are just about the "anti-NS-10's". Lots o' bass, scooped mids, some high end hype. FWIW, the contrast was too much for my poor addled brain to handle when switching between the two. With my budget, I ended up purchasing a pair of Event ASP8's and it's worked out well for me. YMMV, of course.
Old 24th July 2005
  #11
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

I've been using the Mackies for a long while now, and my mixes translate well. They are a good speaker to have on the accurate side of things, while the NS10's to me are nothing but a place to quickly reference what a speaker that sounds like an NS10 might translate as (I still can't find any speakers at Best Buy that sound like NS10's...) so I use the KRK V4 in that position.

The HR824 are not fatiguing to me either.

War
Old 24th July 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

I feel that the Event 20/20 BAS monitors are a good contrast to the NS-10's. That is my setup. I think that the 20/20's have a little scoop in the midrange and a little extended high-end. Overall when I get a mix working well on both sets of monitors it is going to translate into the real world well. I also do a followup listen with a pair of AKG 240 headphones. This system has been working for me.

I am interested in giving the new Event ASP-8 monitors a good test drive.

Good luck with your quest,

Jason
Old 24th July 2005
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
allbaldo's Avatar
 

I liked the sound of Event ASP8's better than the Mackie's, both of which cost about $1400 a pair. I also like KRK V8's which are about $1000.00 a pair.
Old 24th July 2005
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Here is the accumulated list of suggestions. Thanks, especially for the links regarding the Event monitors.

Mackie HR 824
Dynaudios BM6a
Adams P22a
Event 20/20bas, Studio Precision 8
ADAM ANF-10 passive's
jbl 28p
JBL 4408

With the Event monitors, since I have a power amp, does it matter if active or passive with that particular monitor? Those of you with passive monitors- do they perform the same as the actives?

Santo
Old 24th July 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
Personally I hate the mackies, I have the adam ps22a and they´re good, I find the Genelecs 1031´s are great with ns-10m, also I´ve heard from a friend whom mixes I love and ears I respect that the event precision 8 are very good and Im getting a pair´to try .
Whats very Important to remember is the amp you´re using to drive the ns-10, Since I bought the Bryston 3bsst the ns10 ring different clearer at low and high levels, and you can push them harder without distortion and generally they´re a lot more fun to work with the 4bsst is even better.
Someone said you can´t mix electronic music on ns10...I disagree, I´ve made hundreds of dance records on ns10 and they kick ass, but I have been doing it for over 10 years so you learn how the speakers behave and how much bottom end is good on them .
Old 24th July 2005
  #16
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaldo
I liked the sound of Event ASP8's better than the Mackie's, both of which cost about $1400 a pair. I also like KRK V8's which are about $1000.00 a pair.
The V8's are certainly good, the one thing I noticed about them is that they tended to sort of blur the kick drum / bass guitar relationship a bit. The definition was better on the V6's for that matter, that day in that room when we shot out the entire KRK V and RP series stuff.

War
Old 24th July 2005
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
allbaldo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead
The V8's are certainly good, the one thing I noticed about them is that they tended to sort of blur the kick drum / bass guitar relationship a bit. The definition was better on the V6's for that matter, that day in that room when we shot out the entire KRK V and RP series stuff.

War
I can certainly believe that. The strength of the V8's...and V6's for that matter was upper midrange detail. I do almost exclusively "guitar" kind of stuff, so the midrange is really important, and the V series are great for keeping guitars/vocal relationships in check. I haven't gotten to try the RP series stuff in a mix. What were your thoughts about that line?
Old 24th July 2005
  #18
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

The RP series are good bang for the buck, but pale in comparison to the V series which sounds very natural. One thing we noticed about the RP6 in particular was how it made kick drums all sound the same. There was this sort of bottom roundness that it added to the sound of each kick. This wasn't evident on the other RP series stuff we listened to.

The RP series stuff was "OK" until you directly compared it to the V's, all of a sudden there was this pleasant detailed sound in comparison.

I cannot recommend the V6 enough, even over the V8. I use V4's as my second reference set, because the 4" woofer gives you a typical bookshelf / boombox type of response and tells me about low end problems even at lower volumes. Great second reference to my HR824's which deliver a ton top to bottom.

War
Old 24th July 2005
  #19
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Oldone's Avatar
I would opt for the Event ASP8s before the Mackie 824s. I did several shoot outs with these two, in different rooms, and there was little contest.

Two things have occured since I got the Events:

1. Translation across my house stereo and car speakers is very close. When I am done on the Events, I am usually done.

2. Mixing on the Events has improved the sound of my mixes substantially. I picked up a pair, slightly used, for $800 off ebay.
Old 24th July 2005
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
cfjis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead
I've been using the Mackies for a long while now, and my mixes translate well. They are a good speaker to have on the accurate side of things, while the NS10's to me are nothing but a place to quickly reference what a speaker that sounds like an NS10 might translate as (I still can't find any speakers at Best Buy that sound like NS10's...) so I use the KRK V4 in that position.

The HR824 are not fatiguing to me either.

War
Well said, WAR.

I, too, recommend the Mackie 824's... I think they're a great compliment to a "grot box" type of speaker (NS-10's, Auratones...). And, the 824's are in lots of studios... so, you can have a good reference if you take your tracks somewhere else to work.

Mostly, I'd just stress the point that "reference monitors" are tools for getting better mixes, and not supposed to make everything sound awesome... you want to hear the bad stuff, so you can weed it out. And, there are a lot of speakers out there that make things sound better than they are (which equals bad translation to other systems).

Cheers,
CJ
Old 24th July 2005
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Active or passive, does it matter?

Santo
Old 24th July 2005
  #22
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone
I would opt for the Event ASP8s before the Mackie 824s. I did several shoot outs with these two, in different rooms, and there was little contest.

Two things have occured since I got the Events:

1. Translation across my house stereo and car speakers is very close. When I am done on the Events, I am usually done.

2. Mixing on the Events has improved the sound of my mixes substantially. I picked up a pair, slightly used, for $800 off ebay.
I agree 1000 percent!
In all fairness, the mixes I made on Mackies (mostly jazz stuff) translated very well and I can't fault them for that. However, I find them very fatiguing to work with. There is something in the midrange that annoys me after an extended session.

I have a set of NS-10's and a few months ago I went through the same search as the OP.
I opted for the Event ASP8's and I have not looked back.
They are very different sounding from the 20/20's which I really did not like.

The low end on the ASP8's is truly amazing, very smooth and not hyped at all.
No low end on the source, you won't hear it on these speakers.
However, if your source has a low end it will pop right out, nice and smooth.

I find my mixes translate very well because I am hearing a full range of frequencies and at least in my room, I have not had to compensate much at all.

I have not heard the ASP6's but if you don't need as much low end, they might be worth looking into.

Good luck.
Old 24th July 2005
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

You can buy the Event monitors in active and passive versions. I would not seem to make a difference, but I am not sure, that is why I ask. Help me, I'm close to writing a check or reading off the digits on my charge card.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for helping rebuild my studio. I'd also like to trade in my ears for younger versions of the same, but I don't think you can do that. I was reading somewhere that sometime in the future, doctors will be able to treat high frequency hearing loss by actiivating and reprogramming hair in the listen canal. I think they are called cilia. I will be first in line.


Active or passive, does it matter?

Santo
Old 24th July 2005
  #24
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
You can buy the Event monitors in active and passive versions. I would not seem to make a difference, but I am not sure, that is why I ask. Help me, I'm close to writing a check or reading off the digits on my charge card.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for helping rebuild my studio. I'd also like to trade in my ears for younger versions of the same, but I don't think you can do that. I was reading somewhere that sometime in the future, doctors will be able to treat high frequency hearing loss by actiivating and reprogramming hair in the listen canal. I think they are called cilia. I will be first in line.


Active or passive, does it matter?

Santo
I did not hear the passive Events but I DID audition the passive Dynaudio BM15 and I did not like them compared to the active version.
Subjective, but they sounded "loose" to me..
From what I can tell, the active versions of most speakers have better specs and have amps designed to work with the drivers.
Seems like a good thing to me, even though my NS-10's are driven by a Bryston and it doesn't get much better than that
Old 25th July 2005
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by santo
Here is the accumulated list of suggestions. Thanks, especially for the links regarding the Event monitors.

Mackie HR 824
Dynaudios BM6a
Adams P22a
Event 20/20bas, Studio Precision 8
ADAM ANF-10 passive's
jbl 28p
JBL 4408

With the Event monitors, since I have a power amp, does it matter if active or passive with that particular monitor? Those of you with passive monitors- do they perform the same as the actives?

Santo
The basic frequency chart is the same for passive and active versions on the Events I've looked at. They don't use EQ tricks to extend the range of their actives. I don't know what the price differential is, off hand. At a certain point, you might find it makes sense to get the actives, anyway. You have to throw a lot of amp [and forgive me if that info is available above, I just swooped in here and saw this] at the passives to match the 100 and 200 watts per side, biamped (as opposed to a single amp feed split via crossover to the drivers.) OTOH, most folks probably don't need that kind of power. I know I never did. The 100 w versions would have been plenty sufficient. But I am glad I didn't have to put them on the same 65 watt Yamaha prosumer amp/receiver that runs the NS10m's (although logistically, that would have been so much simpler. Powered monitors beg a whole range of functions if you try to use them without the right control setup. Some mixers are adequate in their flexibility. Many aren't or are compromised. It's easy to see how the probably quite lucrative big knob-type control market developed.


Someone above -- someone who, like me, has both NS10m's and Event 20/20's I think -- said the 20/20bas have a 'scooped' sound... and I know kind of what he means, but it's fairly subtle, at least as reflected by the numbers. The freq bandwidth of the 20/20's is rated as flat within +/- 3 dB [20kHz, ±3dB (-2dB @ 38Hz) ]... that's pretty flat for a loudspeaker.

But let me say this, next to an NS10m, just about anything sounds scooped...

heh
Old 25th July 2005
  #26
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Doublehelix's Avatar
 

I have a pair of the Event ASP-8's along with my NS-10's, and I can say that they compliment each other very well. I aslo have a pair of the 20/20 bas's, and I can say without doubt that th ASP-8's are MUCH better in every way.
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