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College/School for engineering
Old 22nd July 2005
  #1
Gear Head
 

College/School for audio engineering

How many of you actually went to school for this? I'm currently an NYU music technology major, and I can't help but think that this will ultimately help me out, but it seems alot of people didn't get any sort of formal training in this field. Share experiences.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #2
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the1Hub's Avatar
 

i believe a great work ethic and a positive attitude can take you a vary long ways. i also think that education, either through a formal school, internship or just getting out a learn on your own, is what you make of it. you really need both to achieve sucsess
Old 22nd July 2005
  #3
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ransomRR's Avatar
 

I would take all the money you would spend on recording school, and just buy your own rig and start recording people. Every single person I know that went to recording school works at guitar center or sam ash.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #4
Gear Head
 

S.U.N.Y Purchase Grad. w/B.M
starting NYU music tech in fall going for M.M,
Names Rich I'll see you around.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #5
Gear Head
 

and by the way I bought a rig, had it for awile now, making money off of it, wouldn't of learned and done so much work in a small time if it wasn't for the constant networking at purchase, school's are what you make out of it, some of my peers don't know **** because they didn't put the time in, whreas I busted my ass for 4 years and I learned a great deal.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #6
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audioez's Avatar
 

If you want to go to college to study music and engineering, I say YES!!! But if you want to go to the "trade" type schools, I'd just take the money, and go to a college.

Berklee College of Music Alumni 2001
BM Music Production&Engineering
Old 22nd July 2005
  #7
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Great Engineering schools:

1.Massachusetts Inst of Technology
2. Stanford University
3. U of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
4. University of California-Berkeley
5. University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
6. California Institute Technology
7. Georgia Institute of Technology
8. Purdue University
9. University of Texas at Austin
10. Carnegie Mellon University

Learn how the tools really work. When you get a good job from graduating from one of these schools, you can buy a lot more gear.

I have an EE bachelors from Ohio state university. It is really handy for trouble shooting my own equipment, building my own preamps (SCA), arguing about sample rates with danlavry and Mytek.

I'm not saying you need all this information to be successful at being a recording engineer, but it really helps. :-)
Old 22nd July 2005
  #8
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I was lucky, a local college here has a really nice 12 week class on music production, and a college studio with a $500,000 budget, so it's fairly well equiped, with quality gear. I haven't been there for awhile but took the course twice as they had different levels. They had a complete 24 track studio setup, lots of computer work stations, with audio software, midi sound modules ect...and even got into video production......the teachers really knew their stuff, and I thought I knew it all, but learned lots of stuff very quickly. A lot of myths I heard and questions I had, became cleared up. We got hands on experience with lots of pro gear, and also did some sessions at a commercial studio as well. Plus you met people, with similar interests, and different backgrounds, and got to interact with everybody.

Over the course of 12 weeks, we went over all the required equipment, basic audio facts, recorded a full 5 piece band, and made our own individual final mixes. We even went over glass masters and producing cover art, although just lightly.

We also had to edit our choice of music to a 30 second commercial video.

The course also had required reading, from a book called "Pratical Recording Techniques, Second Edition", by Bruce and Jenny Bartlett.

So we went over a lot of things, and over all, it was a great experience.

I may do it again, to get updated with the newer gear and software that's now on the market.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #9
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I graduated from Belmont University right at the top of music row in Nashville, TN. I received a B.B.A in Music Business from the University. They have a great program with endless internship opportunities. The great thing about this program is that while youre working on a 4 year accredited business degree you also get to learn the business and even work within the business. The College under the University is the Mike Curb College of Entertainment and Music Business. Mike Curb, founder of Curb Records, has done a lot with the school to heighten the value of the program. Within this program you can take two different tracks, business or production. The production track places an emphasis on engineering, production techniques, studio maintenance, and so forth. You can work your way up to doing sessions at Oceanway Nashville because the school owns the studio. Highly recommended. www.belmont.edu


Brandon
Old 22nd July 2005
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtuner
Great Engineering schools:
Middle Tenn. State University. Largest program in the US.

--jon
Old 23rd July 2005
  #11
A college degree is good for life, no matter the subject. Learning music and engineering is even better if you want to get into this field because it gives you the building blocks to appreciate and get more out of the real learning you do once you're out of school and in your entry level position. The days of the quality apprenticeship and climbing through the staff engineer ranks are behind us, as are the days when most people only had a high school diploma and could still rise high in many chosen fields. Young people today should really pursue higher education. And in the field of audio, to really be proficient and to have a better chance of success, a two pronged approach of education and experience including school and a quality internship is advisable. Anybody can simply buy gear, and quite often they do. A guitar center receipt does not a professional engineer make.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #12
I went through two different certificate programs at two different community colleges back in the early and mid 80s. At that time there were only a few other comm. colleges offering classes, and, of course, the University of Miami bachelor's degree program. I don't even think Berklee had a straing recording program at that time -- but I could be wrong.


It was good for me for a couple reasons, but it looked like a complete waste for more than a few people. (Then again, isn't that pretty much the way it goes for most courses of study?)

And the two programs I was in complemented each other very well. It was like the legless midget and the armless giant working together in that Jadarowski movie... or something. Anyhow, one was bookish and technical, had very nice, well maintained gear but studio time was very limited and regimented. Still, that's kind of a taste of the real world... innit?

The other school I went to was loose, laid-back, and had a lot of really creative musicians handy (unlike the other, suburban school, where the fave bands of almost everyone in the program and the department were Toto and Rush. No. Really. Oh yeah, and a lot of folks really liked Stealy Dan but they were a little freaky for them... ). But gear was often broken or missing, instruction was spotty, one instructor was really knowledgeable but not comfortable teaching and the other was a natural in front of a class who refused to bother to learn the rudiments of his field. Watching him mix was like going through the looking glass.


Clearly, the bar is set much higher for schools today. There are a large number of less heavily promoted programs both for degree and certificate. There's a commercial school scene, highly controversial in itself. And there is a far larger pool of somewhat knowledgeable home and project studio recordists, fellowship with whom can greatly facilitate the learning process.

I managed to learn plenty in school.

But nothing compares to getting out there and doing it in commercial studios.

While most of the students in both programs I went through sat on their hands and never did much of anything in school with the time they were allotted or could wheedle (I was the king of wheedlers), let alone in the 'real world' -- a small core of us 'networked' (before we knew what to call it) to support each other getting work (I'd produce or second for my buddy [you know you're at the low end of the totem pole when the producer is pulling cable and going out for burgers] and on the next project we might switch places.) When one of us couldn't take a gig -- or didn't want to deal with a certain genre, we knew who to call to pass the job along to.


Another reason it was very helpful for me was that, ultimately, I was not comfortable with the music business. I hit the ground running and sliced through a lot of BS because of school -- not to say that I was any kind of overnight success, by any means, just that by the time I'd got out of school and put together some demo projects for musicians I really respected (getting deals for at least two of them) I just wouldn't put up with a lot of bull. I hate liars and cheaters -- and, well, if you've been in the biz, you know what it's like.

Without that leg up and the confidence I drew from it, I don't know if I would have had the stomach to come up the hard way. Around here, even the Christian music scene has crooks, con artists, and drugs... the punk rock scene... eee yow... scummy labels, scummy clubowners... interesting musicians. (I've recorded the Pig Children. No more need be said.)

Anyhow... I eventually took a hike on the music biz and I haven't regretted it in the slightest, but I would have always regretted it if I hadn't gotten serious about recording, which I still do. Writing and recording music is pretty much my raison d'être . That and making sure my cat gets fed and I send my mom presents on the right holidays.

_________________

ADDENDUM: I was just playing some Gary Burton on MusicMatch On Demand and saw the name of the guy who was my very first school recording project, jazz steel drummer Andy Narell. I think his band was called Transfusion then. Would have been 1981, I think. I produced and the engineer was a fellow first year student (who had a lot of band and live sound history, as I recall) Nancy Allen, who now heads the recording program there. (Long Beach City College.)
Old 23rd July 2005
  #13
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hociman's Avatar
 

Education

I graduated with a B.M., Summa cum Laude w/University Honors in Music Production and Technology from the University of Hartford in 2001. I graduated with a M.M. in Music Technology from NYU in 2004 ( fellows!). I had two internships, one of which was with a gearslut member who goes by the handle of chap. The other was with someone who once did live sound for Todd Rundgren. I could've gone to McGill for my M.M., but the day after I graduated with the B.M. I started work as the chief engineer of a post studio in NYC.

I feel that a university education is more valuable, both to you and to me, than one from Full Sail or another certificate type school. I could care less if you've used an SSL, and so do many other people. I want to know if you can apply your knowledge to an O2R or some other device that you may not be intimately familiar with and figure it out.

A degree shows that you've had an interest for at least 4 years, and that you've got some level of intelligence. Beyond that, people skills and the intangibles that cannot be taught come into play. Your degree is only what you make of it. Immerse yourself, go above and beyond the syllabus, and be passionate about what you want to do. The degree, and the reputation of the school, will not carry you to where you want to go on their own, but its a start.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #14
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Full Sail rocks, one big downside are the few chicks.

I would go through a 4 year degree only for the college life though.

No matter what anyone says, going to college is the best time of someone's life. I would not waste them buying gear and shutting yourself up in a studio at such early age, you have the rest of your life to do that.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #15
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hociman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Full Sail rocks, one big downside are the few chicks.
For the record, I didn't say Full Sail sucks. I only said that I value a university degree higher. That does NOT mean attendance at Full Sail is worthless.

As for your other comment, I'm not going to touch that one.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #16
Here for the gear
 

well i live in orlando right now, and i went to the recording workshop.

recording workshop = 5000 for 2 months inc housing

full sail = 40,000 for a year and no housing


oi learned alot at recording workshop


www.recordingworkshop.com
Old 23rd July 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Did ya hear about the hillbilly that went to college ???

He came back and was talking to his friend.

Hillbilly sez: Yeppir, I jest went to college, spent $40,000 goin' to college !!

Friend sez: Well did ya larn anything ??

Hillybilly sez: No, but I had one hell of a week-end !!!! heh
Old 23rd July 2005
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
cultureofgreed's Avatar
 

A degree is always better then no degree.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fail Safe DnB

full sail = 40,000 for a year and no housing

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umm when did it get so expensive ???? I payed something around 28k in 99.

Anyways.. don't forget the amount of hours you get to spend there. It's a 24/7 hour type of clock. Plus you get to sit in class/labs for life. I'm thinking about doing some courses again (for free) because they keep updating. I wish I had gone to school now, I have so many questions I didn't have back then.

Any school you go to, you will get out what you put in. Can't talk about the other schools.. but I loved the vibe there.

It's sad that apparently some ex students gave it a bad reputation, that the real pro's grammy winning types of alumi now hide the fact they wen't there.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Also wanted to add that if I have enough cash some day, I would like to go to one of Mr. Wageners workshops.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #21
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Also wanted to add that if I have enough cash some day, I would like to go to one of Mr. Wageners workshops.

Yep, me too!

Maybe Mr. Wagener will take us for free workshop after 100 posts on gearsluts!

heh heh heh heh heh
Old 23rd July 2005
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qtuner
Great Engineering schools:

1.Massachusetts Inst of Technology
2. Stanford University
3. U of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
4. University of California-Berkeley
5. University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
6. California Institute Technology
7. Georgia Institute of Technology
8. Purdue University
9. University of Texas at Austin
10. Carnegie Mellon University

Learn how the tools really work. When you get a good job from graduating from one of these schools, you can buy a lot more gear.

I have an EE bachelors from Ohio state university. It is really handy for trouble shooting my own equipment, building my own preamps (SCA), arguing about sample rates with danlavry and Mytek.

I'm not saying you need all this information to be successful at being a recording engineer, but it really helps. :-)
Whoa...it takes an EE to solder together a prepackaged mic preamp kit? thumbsup i'm just messing with ya.

as someone who is about to finish at a college of music with a degree in music production/engineering and a second degree in music synthesis i'm definitly in agreement that it's what you put into it that makes it worthwhile or not. people who are good definitly surround themselves with others who are atleast striving to be at the same level.

plus mom and dad told me i had to go to college.
-justin
Old 23rd July 2005
  #23
Here for the gear
 

full sail has had a tuition hike almost every term for the past 2 years. thats why its 40,000.

and you dont even get housing
Old 23rd July 2005
  #24
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adam_w's Avatar
Well, I think if you have the opportunity to go to college in the US you should go & do something useful instead of recording. I'm not saying don't persue it if it is your calling, but in general, the US seems to be quite keen on you having a degree to get a job that will facilitate eating, paying your health insurance & things that stop you dying at some point in your life. You don't need a degree for a recording career. You need to take the lifestyle, have the personality and the near psycopathic drive to do this, the luck and hopefully be able to develop the skills.

If you want some specialist training, go get some of that, perhaps, and put the cash towards a buffer that helps you live while you get going - as always, the advice has to be do all you can yourself to live & learn, but ultimately, go bang your head against a wall, beg, plead, coerce until you can find work in a studio and learnas soon as you can. I'll also say gravitate towards a bigger place as soon as you can, so you get to with bigger badder fish.

Just my 2c/euros
Old 23rd July 2005
  #25
I have a habit of taking on 2 year course graduates.. These guys havent got a degree, just a 2 year course certificate.. (called BITEC in UK)

That said, one guy left after 2 years with me and COMPLETED an additional 1 year course to turn his 2 year BITEC qualification (UK) INTO a degree. That was kinda cool..

Old 14th September 2005
  #26
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hitphy's Avatar
 

I want a school with top industry people so you'll be able to know the right persons and understand what goes in a way...
i think connections is no less important than skills.
Old 14th September 2005
  #27
If you are in NYC and a Gearslut...

Don't forget to come to this event!

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/40797-gearslutz-com-2005-aes-dinner-get-together-friday-7th-october.html

It's being held at SAE NYC recording school...
Old 14th September 2005
  #28
Gear Head
 

I went to The Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences out in Arizona. It was about $12,000 for about a year. I really got a lot out of it, but that's because I put a lot into it and because the teachers I had were very passionate and knowledgeable about what they taught. As it was said earlier in this thread, schooling is what you make of it. There is a lot of theory that you can't really learn by just getting a rig and recording. The how and why of things really interested me and that was a very important part of the program. I've met people from SAE that know what they're doing and same thing with people from Full Sail. But I've also met people that went to those schools and have no idea what they're doing. I know you get an MBox and Powerbook if you go to SAE, which is pretty cool. I've never had a positive experience from anyone that's ever gone to IAR in New York.
Old 14th September 2005
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Its funny, almost 100% of the time the people that haven't attended college for recording will tell you it is a waste of money and you should buy a recording rig instead because they have a friend that has a degree that works a crappy job.
First of all how would they know, they have no experience in the matter. Second, how many college graduates do you know that get the job they want a soon as they graduate?
What do you have that the other guy doesn't?
1.) A degree enables you do get jobs in fields outside yours.
2.) You will learn more than just audio.
3.) You can teach.
4.) When applying for jobs outside and inside of your field, you have a better chance of getting hired when you have a college degree.
5.) You have something to fall back on.

When thinking about your degree, just don't think of audio. You do have an advantage in general in the job market, and whoever tells otherwise is full of it.

I have two degrees in audio and they have helped me immensely. They have helped me get numorous jobs inside and outside my field. Well worth the time.
Old 14th September 2005
  #30
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DC11's Avatar
 

I went to RIT at MI where I teach now. I loved it. It's one of those courses that you get what you want out of it. I did more sessions I could count on a Neve board and an SSL board and annoyed the **** out of every teacher in the program with a 1000000 questions everyday. The classes were decent, but kind of lacking in some aspects. Alot of knowledge I got there i"d never have gotten if I didn't go there, mostly post-production. For technical aspects, it's great, but it won't give you a great ear or alot of other skills that only come with doing it over and over.

Not that it matters, cause I'd have gone anyway, but I went for free. I'd have paid at any other school. Maybe thats why I enjoyed it so much
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