The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Educate me about the Sony DMX R-100
Old 21st July 2005
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Educate me about the Sony DMX R-100

HI Fellow slutz

i have some questions concerning the Sony DMX R-100. although i have read all the previsouse posts especially the pro/cons of analog desks versus digital desks and the discussion about the converters,
I would like to know how in practice the combination dm100+ daw works, which features are superior (or inferior) and how you - that work on those boards - go along, what are your expierineces are and all that. in the end would you recommend it to somebody else. I know mr. michael wagner is using two of them, thus they can t be that bad, and the guys from king's x are picky about sound, thus this is a heavy wight argument for me ivestigating deeper into that.

currently im on the hunt for a board - and haven t found something that i am completly happy with in the below 20K area. (you know, actually im looking for an ssl g+ in perfect condition for nearly no price. but as we all know, that is just plain utopia, and reality is, a used G+ is out of budget.) thus i am looking at all directions and appriciate all your input very much. the Sony DMX R-100 is currently at 12k (used), thus i had 8 k left to spend on outboard etc. not a bad plan in my opinion.


- how does your workflow look?
- is there now a DSP feature (for example sticking UAD cards into in it ???)
- the clean sound of the board is no problem, i can / will color the sound with additional outboard.
- can the functions of the board be controller via a host like nuendo ?

thanks for you input
mark
Old 21st July 2005
  #2
Old 21st July 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 

The DMX forum went offline a couple weeks ago. That link will take you to a cover page and links, but the actual forum is gone. My guess is the sponsor pulled the cord on the money...

Mark,

I've used a DMX in this studio for over 4 years, I still love it. Before that I had an O2R (still in service here!). There are many things to love about the Sony- For a digital board, the summing is spectacular, and in general, it just sounds great. The routing matrix is very flexible, anything can be routed to anything (great for integrating outboard). The faders are 10-bit precision. The automation is truly dynamic, and you can approach it multiple different ways, depending on the need, or how you like to work. Dedicated channel section, with individual knobs for everything. Pre's, EQ, dynamics, A/D's- all clean and transparent, not much character, which is exactly what I want in a digital mixer.

Many things to hate as well- floppy drive. USB never implemented, never will be. No more software upgrades. If something serious breaks, God help you. No sub-grouping. 96k cuts everything in half. Not enough outputs....

I use DP via lightpipe to the DMX. I'm a composer, so I have MIDI and synths and other analog stuff going into the DMX as well. I do all the mixing on the Sony. MTC from the DAW, into DMX, gets the timecode there. For the important stuff and while mixing, I use outboard pre's, clock, processors, Apogee A/D, etc. (best way to use this board, IMO).

What it's not:

The DMX is not a very good controller, very limited. You'd be better off with a real controller for that...It's meant to be the actual mixer, not a mouse.

There are no built in FX or cards, etc., and there NEVER will be. Even if there would be more software, there is not enough DSP in the console for it to do more than it does already.

It's not in production anymore, and so support will eventually be dropped (probably around '07 or '08).

Still, I'll probably use mine until it can't be fixed anymore. There's just no reasonably priced instrument out there that does all it does, and sounds as good... Well, I guess there's the Yamaha 2000 Board, but I already been there, done that with Yamaha.

Old 21st July 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 

Yup i agree with all the above I also use my sony lightpiped toDP as well as PT I can't find anything as flexible as this setup for anything under the price of say an icon...so 70-80 grand? I also will use mine until the thing falls apart which should be a long long time ... as for subgroups I sub in my daw and route it to channel inputs for summing when its needed....I may buy another as the price falls oh and it sounds great by the way...
cheers
SP
Old 22nd July 2005
  #5
Gear Head
 

Despite the board being discontinued, support from Sony... if you make enough calls to figure out who you're really supposed to call... is good. I recently had my fader boards serviced, and turnaround time was a couple days.

My console is one of the original ones, before the many hardware revisions. I've had it for almost five years now. Somewhere down the line, Sony changed a resistor in the analog front end. Before this change, the analog electronics started overloading at -6 dBFS. After the change, you couldn't get the analog electronics to overload before hitting digital clipping. Sony released a tech note describing how to swap out the resistors, but I opted to keep mine analog-overload-able. Why? Because it sounds more ROCK!!!! Especially w/ drums. In other words, unlike most digital consoles, my DMX-R100 sounds analog because it distorts in analog!!!

Other topics worth noting. Personally, I think the console's automation SUCKS. Because the physical position of a fader can vary as much as 3 dB from its "virtual" position, touching a fader can make its value jump instantly. There's no fader nulling or fader smoothing on initial touch. Also, the EQ and dynamics libraries are PER TITLE; therefore, you can't copy EQ or compressor settings between songs w/o jumping thru hoops using poorly-designed offline software. Furthermore, despite the fact that there are way more physical controls on the DMX-R100 than one most digital consoles, I find that operating the DMX-R100 is SLOWER for many purposes due to the lack of any user-interface shortcuts. It's painfully obvious that the software engineers were NOT recording engineers. Heck, the UI on my old Panasonic/RAMSA console--with its sh*tty monochrome LCD screen and sparse physical layout--was way more efficient than the "prettier" UI on the DMX-R100.

I could go on and on.

But in short, I continue to use it as my main console because it sounds awesome at 44.1 kHz. If I were operating at a higher sampling rate, I'd choose another console, or I'd go w/ an analog board.

12K is a lot to pay for a console that's been feature-obsolete for years.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Thank you all for your elaborate input, there were some ussiues coming up that i did not know, or did not consider yet - meinly the dropping off the support in some shorter time.

I will try for my self how to work on my board (if the retailer lets me do this) and then decide if this board is a path to go for me or not.

any more information is highly appreciated.
thank you all :-)

mark
Old 22nd July 2005
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by microsoftsucks
12K is a lot to pay for a console that's been feature-obsolete for years.
I have to agree with that.

But what's better for the money right now (not ITB)?
Old 22nd July 2005
  #8
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
I wouldn't pay more than $8k for one without any cards. add about $400 for each of those.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #9
Lives for gear
 
DigitMus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts
I have to agree with that.

But what's better for the money right now (not ITB)?

Well, despite the name "Mackie" attached to it, the DXB is pretty nice for $12,000 (no cards). I was an "early adopter" (a beta tester in all but name). It definitely had "teething problems" but with some great support from Kurt at Mackie, as well as several software upgrades and a couple of circuit board swaps, it is now ready for prime time. Take a look at their marketing hype http://www.mackie.com/products/digitalxbus/index.html and see if it looks like it'll suit your needs. The only gripe I have with it right now is the cooling fan - but Mackie is very good about supporting those users who've opted to replace the cooling (i.e. it won't void the warranty if you consult them about what you're doing).

Scott
Old 22nd July 2005
  #10
Lowdbrent
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitMus
Well, despite the name "Mackie" attached to it, the DXB is pretty nice for $12,000 (no cards). I was an "early adopter" (a beta tester in all but name). It definitely had "teething problems" but with some great support from Kurt at Mackie, as well as several software upgrades and a couple of circuit board swaps, it is now ready for prime time. Take a look at their marketing hype http://www.mackie.com/products/digitalxbus/index.html and see if it looks like it'll suit your needs. The only gripe I have with it right now is the cooling fan - but Mackie is very good about supporting those users who've opted to replace the cooling (i.e. it won't void the warranty if you consult them about what you're doing).

Scott
It's a bit overpriced I think. All that it is a P3 computer, cards, software, two touch screen monitors and a control surface. This can surely be assembled for way less than $12k. Besides that, it is made by Mackie. That would spook me a bit.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

mh, i thought about the mackie, but - as mentioned before - i do not see that much difference from my current setup (daw + controller+ I/O), and somehow i do not really feel that comfortably with that whole concept, and expecially since i am looking for an real desk in conjunction with my outboard, not another computer. said this, the dmx would be the design that i would go furtherst into digital, since i actually wanted to come out of digital ... (hope you understand). the dmx as an digital board just attracted me due to michael wagner using it, the very next thing in digital design that would be apealling would be and aws900 but that is far out of budget, and - i think - if i had that money at hand, i d go for something else in design and concept.

however, thnak for the input :-)
Old 29th July 2005
  #12
Gear Head
 

I had a Yamaha DM1000 in my studio for a few months. It has lots of really cool shortcuts and features, and it's obvious that the user-interface designers were either recording engineers themselves or they worked very closely with recording engineers.

For example, each input channel has a delay that you can measure in inches. This is extremely helpful in a time crunch when you're mixing close mics with distance mics and you want to reduce comb-filtering... something I almost always do with drums.

Price? Given that it's more than twice the console in comparison to the DMX-R100, it's a steal. A DM1000 goes for less than 5K w/o options, doesn't it?

DAW integration? I wouldn't even bother trying to operate a DAW with the Sony DMX-R100--it's DAW and MMC features are that lame. The Yamaha DM1000, on the other hand, plays well with a variety of DAWs. And its offline software is much more useful than the DMX-R100's.

Sound? It sounds super clean. And its "Type II" EQs are way better (to my ears) than the EQs in the original O2R96. The updated EQs don't cut your head off, like the original Yamaha EQs did.

But alas, the DM1000 sounds like a digital console.

Which is why I still prefer the analog sound (and distortion) of my DMX-R100 to the DM1000. But then again, you can always ADD analog distortion elsewhere!!!

(BTW, I should mention that I rely on outboard mic preamps for all my recording needs, and the DMX-R100 is used for A/D duties, monitoring (during tracking), and mixing.)
Old 29th July 2005
  #13
Lives for gear
 
matyas's Avatar
 

I've been freelancing in a theater that has a DMX-R100 for about 3 years now. Yes, they use it as a live board! That should be a pretty high recommendation for a digital desk right there. I've never used it in a studio setting, but it sounds great, very nice eq and dynamics, and the automation, while not perfect, is definitely usable. It does have a surprisingly smooth, almost analog, sound. I'd definitely consider one if I had the scratch. I wouldn't be too worried about the support - there are plenty of them running around, and I'm sure some third party will be servicing and supporting them long after Sony ceases to do so. Considering how many people are still using consoles from the 1970's, I wouldn't think twice about using a late 90's console, even if it is digital (and harder to service, in some ways). I used an original D8B a few times, and the Sony absolutely slams it in sound and usability.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
mltamisin / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
4
mltamisin / High End
5
gabler / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
J.F.K / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
PJB5060 / So Much Gear, So Little Time
5

Forum Jump
Forum Jump