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How many gear slutz are engineers/musicians?
Old 4th August 2006
  #61
Lives for gear
 
The dman's Avatar
 

Musician/songwriter first and formost here. The first time I walked into a studio I was hooked,borrowed $2,000 for a Teac 3440 and have been a slut ever since.

I am not an engineer in the classical sense, too much technical stuff make me sleepy but I've recorded and produced many many sessions through the years.

That said, I have an awe and respect for the true engineer espicially the old school cats like George Martin and Bruce Swedien. Theses guys that had nothing but some mics,a room, a couple of tracks and some outragous talent.
Old 4th August 2006
  #62
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Hey slipperman

Can't name one til your solo album hits the shelves... heh heh


No Production credit huh.... damn had Daniel Lanois in mind

ah well....


in that case ... I have a new goal... become that name we can't think of


cheers
Old 4th August 2006
  #63
Gear Addict
 

Both here. I've found a great balance and actually find inspiration and art in recording that feeds my writing. I'm always working on a personal project or three. I have to, even if it's only a few hours a week. I go bonkers if I don't create something of my own in a couple of weeks. In turn, I'm a better engineer with others.

I won't go into lots of details here but my abilities as a recording engineer are much much more well recieved by other people when I approach recording as an artist rather than allowing my self to fall into the trap of thinking there are right and wrong ways or creating recorded art or that my goal is ever to thought of as a great engineer. I happen to be pretty good but it's important (to me) that I not let my ego get wrapped up in the technical side of this life. I just try to make every recording I make sound as "cool" and "yummy" as I can to me and that usually makes the other people happy as well. Does any of this make sense to anyone other than me?
Old 4th August 2006
  #64
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Be a Producer/Engineer/Musician

Treat others songs like they were your own without dictating, and you can have creative fulfillment.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 4th August 2006
  #65
Lives for gear
 

They go hand in hand!

I can't recall first picking up a GTR because my dad played and it was just always there.
Thank God he didn't play clarinet or flute because I would have been screwed when The Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan that night! I already sort of "knew" the GTR at that point.

So for me it was spinning those Beatle 45s and trying to bang out something similar on that Les Paul Jr. piped through an Alamo tube amp. My dad bought a Realistic (Radio Shack) 1/4" bi-directional 2 track tape deck that would allow you to record IN SYNC (!!!!) on each channel. My parents got divorced, so the stereo became mine. When I was about fourteen I got another reel to reel and started doing bounces. I messed around with making loops of drums, bass and rythym GTR as well.

When I was sixteen I got a paper route and talked my mom into loaning me the money for an Akai Quad reel to reel. It didn't have sync, so I had to build it into the deck myself. This was VERY difficult and took me almost a year to figure out! My usual recording technique was to track my band live with stereo drums (kick, snare. OHs) and the GTR and bass each going to a track. I'd mix the 4 track recording through a Kustom (!!!!) mixer down to 2 tracks.
I would then put that tape back on the mod'ed 4 track Akai and overdub two more tracks. I'd mix it to the 2 track via the Kustom. I had a 2nd stereo TEAC that I used for slap echo. Interestingly enough, these tapes sound pretty decent to this day!

When I was nineteen I got a group of guys together and we bought an 8 track studio. It had an Ampex 8 track built from a Model 300 transport and AG440 electronics. The console was a TASCAM model 10 and we mixed to an Ampex AG350. Within a year we had a Universal Audio 16x3 console based on UA tube electronics.

The rest was an explosion of stuff that continues to this day.

I have continued to play GTR and picked up KYBDs along the way.
I can play mandolin, bass, dobro and ukelele as needed.
I know how drums work, so I can program "grooves" and have a real drummer play the real thing later.
In the process I have learned how to write scores for strings, horns but I use the computer for this more often than not. You DO have to know a lot of stuff before using say Coda and getting readable scores.

Out of neccesity I learned to engineer, repair, design, construct music related stuff.

Still, musical experience does help A LOT!
Before you can track a big band date you had better listen to a lot of big band.
Before you can track a speedmetal date you had better listen to a lot of speedmetal.
Before you can track a C&W date you had better listen to a lot of C&W.

The technical side is definitely a plus, but you have to be aware of the status quo for sound that you are trying to acheive. This requires a degree of musicality and that really comes from listening to an experienceing a lot of music.

Danny Brown
Old 4th August 2006
  #66
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Ive been a professional classical musician for 14 years(Operatic Bass and Bass singer for hire) and also play pedal and lap steel, both of which I picked up en route to my Music Degree. Got into recording so I could record my own demos in College(real engineers were too expensive), and about 5 years ago I started getting into it heavily, and have been a sucessful Location Classical Engineer for some time now. I do everything live, all orchestras/chamber music etc and have found the ability to read the scores and get familiar with the pieces way ahead of time to be a GodSend.

That being said, I know a few guys that I very much look up to and whose work I admire greatly that do not read a lick of music. (Kavi Alexander of Waterlily Acoustics for one)

as long as you have the heart and the ear, you can get through it. If you can read music but your ears suck, well..
Old 4th August 2006
  #67
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
You wake up with 10 gallons of talent and ambition.

Don't kid yourself that they go further, or you somehow get more gallons... if you allocate them to more undertakings.

As for the spectre of the GREAT musician/engineer...

Please name ONE.

ONE guy who was a slash and DOMINATED in both fields simultaneously... or even in the same decade.

I'm sure I'm missing somebody but.... I can't think of one.

Not speaking about RECORD PRODUCTION, mind you...

AUDIO ENGINEERING.

AE is a LIFE PURSUIT in my estimation, and one that requires every bit of the fanatical commitment to the achievement of excellence and unswerving loyalty to the mad cause that being a musician ever did.

Bring less and yer gonna get left in the dust.

Just a thought.

SM.
That's sobering . . .
Old 4th August 2006
  #68
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

i play guitar, bass, drums, keys, a little trumpet, i sing, but i also play the console.
Old 4th August 2006
  #69
Lives for gear
 

There are plenty of people who do/did well as both an artist and engineer:

Frank Zappa
Winy Carlos
Prince
Peter Gabriel

They may have hired others for specific tasks, but they did a lionshare of the work and had the vison.

The list is endless.

Danny Brown
Old 4th August 2006
  #70
Lives for gear
 
paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman

As for the spectre of the GREAT musician/engineer...

Please name ONE.

ONE guy who was a slash and DOMINATED in both fields simultaneously... or even in the same decade.

I'm sure I'm missing somebody but.... I can't think of one.
Les Paul. The only guy I can think of.

Cheers,
JP
Old 4th August 2006
  #71
Lives for gear
 

Peter Gabriel

He did a lot of the engineering himself over the years.

Silly question actually.

DB
Old 4th August 2006
  #72
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno
Les Paul. The only guy I can think of.

Cheers,
JP
...steve albini...i don't think you guys would like big black or shellac so much, though.

there's PLENTY of records that i love that are engineered by musicians. they might not be records that any of you have ever heard, but they're out there, and they're fantastic. check out the pellicci brothers, who have both been in cool bands. also investigate don zientara. i can continue this list if you want.

and not to toot my own horn, but i find myself to be quite excellent at both playing and recording. it hurts my brain to do them both at the same exact time, but i can do either/or on any given day.
Old 4th August 2006
  #73
Lives for gear
 

I can do both quite well, but it's a pain in the butt to pull both off.
I'd love to have someone track me.
Then I'd have to pay them, too!

Every track I have where I do it all myself seems to have something wrong somewhere.
Maybe it''s just over-compressionn on the ACSTC guitar, but there it is!

Oh yeah... that over-compresion was an EFFECT!
There are no rules ya' know

Danny Brown
Old 4th August 2006
  #74
Gear Addict
 

I play keys, sax, flute, and trumpet, as well as a little vocal stuff. I'm more of a musician/engineer, I play about 25-30 gigs per month. The studio's been a little slow lately, which is somewhat of a welcome relief.
Old 5th August 2006
  #75
Lives for gear
 
dpianomn's Avatar
 

i do both, but i'm primarily a musician. right now i'm making an album, but when that's not happening i'm generally on the road for a month at a time. oddly enough, i've found that doing peoples' demos pays a lot of my bills. guess it helps that my rig is portable. truth be told i'd probably be happy doing one or the other: engineering or playing full time. d.
Old 5th August 2006
  #76
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno
Les Paul. The only guy I can think of.

Cheers,
JP
Knew I'd miss somebody. HOHOHO. Touche' JP!

That's one.

Nobody else mentioned here did much more than noodle around on their own records during the course of record production.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zappa, Prince and PG couldn't toss up much better than a rudimentary scratch mix without somebody holding their hand. And more importantly... NONE of those cats ever did 'for hire' AE work as far as I know.

Ever.

Hardly the scope and scale of Audio Engineering I'm talking about.

We got ONE so far... IMHO.



SM.
Old 5th August 2006
  #77
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

actually, i gave more than one example...pretty valid ones, if you ask me. maybe they didn't mix the last shakira record but they've been involved with much better written and sounding music. and these are folks that record their own bands, AND are hired as engineers for other bands.
Old 5th August 2006
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman
Knew I'd miss somebody. HOHOHO. Touche' JP!

That's one.

Nobody else mentioned here did much more than noodle around on their own records during the course of record production.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zappa, Prince and PG couldn't toss up much better than a rudimentary scratch mix without somebody holding their hand. And more importantly... NONE of those cats ever did 'for hire' AE work as far as I know.

Ever.

Hardly the scope and scale of Audio Engineering I'm talking about.

We got ONE so far... IMHO.

SM.
Todd Rundgren ... eh ?
Old 5th August 2006
  #79
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
That's the guy. Todd Rundgren. Yeah baby. Take that slipperman!! heh
Old 5th August 2006
  #80
Gear Maniac
 

actually, i'm pretty sure zappa was a more than competent engineer-- he built his own studio very, very early on and was huge into the whole recording/engineering thing (you can read his autobiography to get an idea).
Old 5th August 2006
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
knightsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDaddyO
Todd Rundgren ... eh ?
Uh oh.

Well I guess maybe by the current state of the art of record production.... yeah, maybe.
Old 5th August 2006
  #82
Lives for gear
 
pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Man, ain't that the truth. I picked up the guitar again after a 10 year hiatus and thought I'd get some recording gear to serve as a sketchpad of sorts. Fast forward 6 years and I spend a huge amount of time and a sizeable chunk of my disposable income on researching and buying recording gear.
Old 5th August 2006
  #83
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DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno
I personally think producing/playing is 100 times easier than engineering/playing, with engineering/producing falling closer to the producing/playing end. There are too many things to pay attention to with the eng/play senario, and I think that is something that frustrates the musician/songwriter types who are trying to record their own stuff. It's hard to get into that zone of creating when you are constantly worried about levels, gain structure, and tone. Nothing kills inspiration faster than having to deal with technical issues. How do you songwriter/engineer folks deal with it?

Cheers,
John
Agreed!

But, once you figure out how to dial in the sound you want for your music, you dont have to pay as much attention to details since your GTR tone is usually the same. Vocals require the same cuts and boosts. For getting down fast ideas, I pull up a songwriting template that has empty tracks preloaded for the intstruments I play with plugin settings saved. This way I dont have to dick around much when I want to record an idea that I feel like i might forget. But usually I try to not do that. I usually do it in my head first and not on the computer at all. I try to plan my idea for each instrument in the entire song and learn it before even bothing to attempt to record. If the song is good enough, then the time spent doing this is worth it. If not, you will tire of playing it after a few days. I try not to waste time recording stuff that is really not worth the time spent. I think this is why some songwriters get burned out when trying to play both roles. If it aint gold, record it on 1 track- keep it as simple as possible and save it as a wav file. Done with it.
Old 5th August 2006
  #84
Lives for gear
 
KrisNY's Avatar
 

Both here as well.

I think lately I've been letting my musician's chops go a bit to really hone in on my Pro Tools chops, but I'll always have a place in my heart for both.
Old 5th August 2006
  #85
Lives for gear
 
stagefright13's Avatar
 

I was always a singer guitar player. But started recording in 1979 with 2 cassette deck overdubs lol! (High School) Then later got my Tascam 34 4 track. Wohoo! Been recording ever since. Had a tapco mixer, Kelsey (Remember those wooden ones?), Tascam, Biamp, etc. Then one day we PAYED for studio time and I sang and played and produced. No engineering at all. World of difference. I could just do my job! Loved it. Sounded the best.
I made some good recordings over the years but the best ones were when everyone person envolved did 1 specific job. The overall results were better.
Now I don't play out anymore and concentrate on recording other bands. And I am more focused. I feel my job is to let the band do what they do best while I take care of the technical stuff. And capture thier sound the way they want it. They have the freedom to be creative. And I am very happy, I still am recording.
Old 5th August 2006
  #86
Moderator
 
Oroz's Avatar
 

Guitar player for 16 years, recording engineer for about 7. The need to record my own music it's what got me into engineering in the first place.
I do end up playing in a lot of my productions (drum programming, bass, guitars, keys programming) and also as a guest guitarist (solos specially) in a lot of my clients recordings.
Old 5th August 2006
  #87
Lives for gear
 

Ken Andrews does both (major label mixer and artist). I wonder if he ever checks out GS?
Old 5th August 2006
  #88
Both.......24 yrs old, musician for 12 years, engineer for 5 years, getiing paid fulltime as an engineer for about 3 years!!!! I am very lucky for my age to get where I am. And I never went to school for it or ever took a music lesson. Though I wish my parents would have shoved it down my throught as a child and had the money to send me for more education but it all worked. My kids will be playing drums and piano at age 5 for sure. I might go take some music courses at the local Community College but I am to busy with the studio and I got to pay bills. Someday I will be a smart musician but for now punk rock tactics are working. Dealing with clients personality is 1/2 the job anyways.
Old 5th August 2006
  #89
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
That's the guy. Todd Rundgren. Yeah baby. Take that slipperman!! heh
Crash.

God help us all.

GREAT musician and composer... and some folks like his productions as well.

But.... Let's not get into his AE chops.

Please...

I'm begging you.

HOHOHO.

SM.
Old 5th August 2006
  #90
Gear Addict
 

I'm a musician lost in the engineering world
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