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How many gear slutz are engineers/musicians?
Old 11th July 2005
  #31
Gear Addict
 

BOTH.
While the frustrated musician thing may be true in some cases, for me doing both has become an integral thing. While I am not a "professional" engineer I have done some professional work over the last 30+ years and paid much of my college tuition in the 70's playing in bands (having a "career" in electronics allows me to indulge my gearslut tendencies better than if I was playing in a bar band). I can't imagine not doing both.
The downside is that it is way too easy to get hung up working on technical things. Pretty soon you realize you haven't put out any music for a while.
I've learned over the years that I need to drop the techie stuff and start playing sometimes, since making music is the ultimate goal.
The plus side is that while there must be a million people who play far better than I can, I have an unusual amount of electronics and audio expertise which allows me to help people out, hopefully this makes the journey worthwhile even if I never have a "significant" record/CD.
Old 11th July 2005
  #32
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 

Both. Quite often I end up playing on client's projects.
Old 12th July 2005
  #33
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Total musician here with a side going at engineering. As a matter of fact my day doesn't begin until I've put in at least a 2 hour practice on the guitar. It tends to be frustrating when I have too many projects of other peoples that get in the way of my music. I don't complain. Or the well known "I wish I had someone here to push buttons and troubleshoot!" But with things more or less set up at home it's not that much of an issue. More getting the time to do my own things.

What I have found frustrating is when I'm the best musician in the house, which I hate to say is most of the time. It gets frustrating trying not to argue with the musicians. I have a good reputation so most of the time I don't have to say too much but when I have some dunderhead and inexperienced clients who don't listen it tends to twist my shorts. They don't HAVE to take my advice but it's when they don't even listen I get riled. Then I think, "You little snot-assed punks . . " But I tell myself it doesn't matter.

I still play out a lot and have a couple of groups - one of my own and one I'm a member of. I also record the latter group with my mobile rig. Some pretty cool gigs. I'm mixing one show we played with the jazz pianist Art Lande. So I definitely consider myself a musician first. I'm a jazz oriented guitarist who can play, or play at most styles including heavy rock toned nutty stuff and fingerpicking acoustic. It's my chance to try and be a studio guitarist Paul Jackson jr or someone.
Old 12th July 2005
  #34
Lives for gear
 

The other question is
How many times have you wished you could grab the guitar or drums and scream
"NO, LIKE THIS YOU F-ING MORON!!"
Old 12th July 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Oldone's Avatar
What is worse is my engineering half snickering at my musician side thinking, you have to play it cleaner idiot.

Then my musician side on occasion gets pissed at my engineering half thinking, I played it right that time you jerk, you forgot to press record.
Old 12th July 2005
  #36
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey
The other question is
How many times have you wished you could grab the guitar or drums and scream
"NO, LIKE THIS YOU F-ING MORON!!"
Not that so much . . . I had a session not long ago where the pianist couldn't get the solo on a jazz tune overdub with complicated changes. So he just comped and asked me to put the solo down. That was fun. I love pulling my guitar out. Most times I charge for the extra musician hat fee but I didn't on this one. They were already over extended.
Old 12th July 2005
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
lm66's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Most engineers I know are frustrated musicians.
I'm a musician who is a frustrated sound engineer.
Old 12th July 2005
  #38
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

i am just frustrated

both
Old 12th July 2005
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
cfjis's Avatar
 

I'm both... I started engineering in high school so that I could get my ideas down (on tape, at the time) and have more control over my productions.

I love both... writing & production satisfies the creative side, and engineering satisfies my love of technology and other slutty things (and helps get great sounds).

Even when I'm hired as just an engineer on a project, my musicianship and produciton skills always pay off. I think it is a big bonus when you can relate musically to your client, and be able to talk the language of music (theory, history, etc.).

Cheers,
Charles
Old 12th July 2005
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Fibes's Avatar
 

Paterno makes a good point and as a musician who ended up getting into P/E simply out of boredom/necessity I always have another engineer there when I'm tracking my own stuff to get me out of my own way. A perfect example was on a night I had scheduled to do guitar overdubs i smashed the crap out of my middle finger and i did three solo takes, my assistant stopped me and said that i nailed it and we needed to move on. I remember thinking the take sucked and in hindsight it was because of my mindset that without a middle finger I couldn't do as much as i wanted; which turned out to be just the ticket. He got me out of my own way, saved the take, and now it's regarded as one of the highlights of our album. I would have trashed it in a second. BTW Alphajerk also insisted we keep the song on the album and the reviews ring true with his opinion as well.

So in a nutshell surround yourself with people that know you better than you do and trust yourself. heh heh.
Old 12th July 2005
  #41
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
I also think it's a good idea for musicians to try their hand at dj'ing in front of a live crowd....you'll learn alot about music, musical tastes, and the general public, what sells, what doesn't sell, ...."show business" and the "music business", in general, it ain't as easy as it looks..........even go check out a karaoke bar once in awhile....you'll soon see why you need to know your gear.
yup.
and once U start and get tired of spinnin' wax.....
buy live and put together ALL of Ur fave tunes (or parts thereof) into an hour and a half set. oddly enough, this sh!t is FUN!!!
the cool thing w/ live is how well it's tap tempo is implemented. U can play Ur beats totally to live musicians on stage and follow THEM. WOOO-HOOOO
Old 12th July 2005
  #42
Dot
Lives for gear
 
Dot's Avatar
Was a multi-instrumentalist by the time I was in high school – and still actively play 15+ instruments. When I first got a chance to do some multi-track recording it just seemed like a natural extension of playing a lot of instruments. I've professionally played drums, bass, guitars, piano, organ, synths, percussion, trombone, vocals. All that ties in when I work as an engineer and/or producer with clients. If I'm miking drums and working with a drummer – I'm a drummer and can speak their language. Same with bass, guitars, keys, horns, singers... and just about everyone else.

I've played on projects I've engineered. I've also done a few projects where I did all of the engineering and played all of the instruments.

I've heard some say that you're either one or the other when it comes to being an engineer or a musician.

I don't think that's true at all. If you're a musician and you can cut it – then you're a musician. If you're an engineer and you can cut it – then you're an engineer. I've been musician for all of my life and an engineer for almost 30 years.

Just because someone buys some gear and can route signals around doesn't make them an engineer. Engineering is its own course of learning and discovery. And until you really get it under your belt – of course it's going to be a problem when you try and engineer your own music. I'd say if someone wants to engineer and doesn't just work on a lot of projects as an engineer only - then they'll never really "get it".

I do think, though, that in a lot of cases it's a waste of time/creativity/money for musicians to buy a bunch of gear and try and engineer their own projects.

Ronan Chris Murphy wrote about some of this, "Home Studios are Killing Music" http://www.studioreviews.com/killingmusic.htm
Old 12th July 2005
  #43
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Recording Engineer/Mixer,Producer,arranger,Keyboard player,singer here.

I get more frustrated with people that can't sing on key or just not having enough inspiration personally more than anything.
Hmmmmmmmmmm

Sometimes I think it´s better only to be an engineer. I have a Bachelor degree in Music and I can get really tired and as weel frustrated when recording and knowing it sounds like shait!
Old 12th July 2005
  #44
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
Both.

But I've been drumming for about 15 years and engineering for about 5. I'm still and will always be a drummer at heart. I do have done some projects with my band where I played drums, but I rarely drum on client projects, only if they have heard me play and really want me to, but even then, reluctantly.
I also know my way around the piano a little (have played for a couple of years).

I work a lot with bands and that fact that I play myself (and on drums quite well even if I have to say it myself heh ) helps a lot in communicating with the bandmembers. My partner in the studio is a highly skilled guitarist who also knows his way around a bass, plays keys quite good and can sing. Together, we can cover the complete basically all of the intstrumentation and are able to produce bands because of it.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 12th July 2005
  #45
Lives for gear
 
88fingerz's Avatar
 

You callin' my name?

Check out what I do here: http://www.RockgardenMusic.com

I'm booked quite often these days!
Old 12th July 2005
  #46
Here for the gear
 
Velocitybmg's Avatar
 

Just wanted to add that the main reason mixing is a pain is the way in
which you have to manipulate the indivdual drum..."bass" or rythym
track and the leads and melodies.

I have a digital mouse...and it is hard sometimes when you have to adjust
a track like a billionth of an inch, heh, so that everything is in time the way it
was when you originally played it.

I used to just do everything live...but frequency conflicts were a problem
when I would use the same basic tone for my rythym work as I do in my
main lead and melody work.

Took me awhile to get a decent sound as I never read how-to's.

Just don't.

That's it.

There are some samples of my stuff...

one in my profile....and one linked here from a small server I rent.

Music is kind of like....well..."shred"...but that's still actually musical.

Throw in some diminished...overtone...harmonic minor...and arpeggios
...and about every other evil or somber thing you can get a phrase
from..and some occasional atonality...mix it with Scriabin..Malmsteen,
Vai...MacAlpine...and Lynch influences and make 'em have a train wreck...

Ahh....if you care to listen...go ahead.

If not...that's ok too.



mp3 file...3 MB
The Fatalist
Old 12th July 2005
  #47
Gear Addict
 
Billster's Avatar
 

musician / engineer / songwriter / producer as well

I´m doing both and doing well. It´s more interesting to fill different roles, isn´t it ? Maybe I´d think differently if I was one of those hi-end grammy winning engineers. Still creativity and writing songs is quite a bit of my identity - it just wants to (and keeps) coming out of my brain...on the other hand engingearing is such a nice way to let hours and hours and hours pass by.

There more of a big picture of record making, composing, arranging, engineering etc. you get, the better the final product will be. Because as you all know : everything influences everything else - use of instruments, use of keys, of microphones, of preamps etc. Just my opinion...


Bill
Old 12th July 2005
  #48
Gear Addict
 
simonv's Avatar
 

I agree completely.

It's important to know at least a bit of everything to get the general picture.
If you put all your eggs in the same basket, you end up hard to work with.
Old 12th July 2005
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
aevan's Avatar
 

I do both, and love both. I think if I was told I could only do one for the rest of my life I'd still be happy. I've lost track of the number of pairs of headphones I've broken jumping up to drop out of record while standing on the cord. I have several dents in my forhead from pencil mikes that I usually head butt at the same time. And that's just from recording acoustic guitar...so doing both, while fun, can be dangerous. One of the seniors I learned from used to tell me about a producer named John Farrer that used to sit behind the console with a mike and headphones recording the bv's himself so it's been goin on for years.
Old 12th July 2005
  #50
Lives for gear
 
HudHudson's Avatar
 

I'm both a muso/writer and an engineer/producer as well. I'd much rather toss the AE chores to someone else when I'm producing and playing but rarely have the budget to afford the extra hands & ears. In my case it's forced me to learn my gear better and to be better prepared before the red light comes on.
Old 12th July 2005
  #51
Here for the gear
 
Velocitybmg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billster
I´m doing both and doing well. It´s more interesting to fill different roles, isn´t it ? Maybe I´d think differently if I was one of those hi-end grammy winning engineers. Still creativity and writing songs is quite a bit of my identity - it just wants to (and keeps) coming out of my brain...on the other hand engingearing is such a nice way to let hours and hours and hours pass by.

There more of a big picture of record making, composing, arranging, engineering etc. you get, the better the final product will be. Because as you all know : everything influences everything else - use of instruments, use of keys, of microphones, of preamps etc. Just my opinion...

Bill
I know what you mean about music just continually coming out of
your brain.

Well...something keeps coming out of my brain. :?
Old 12th July 2005
  #52
Lives for gear
 
drmmrboy's Avatar
 

Both here. Sometimes I'll pull double duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge
I just realized I have way more guitar/amp and bass/keyboard stuff than drum gear now..
I'm not quite to that ratio yet, but amps and guits are starting to pile up. It will probably even out cause I'm selling a few drum kits to buy more studio gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge
Ugh!..I need more room!
Man, I just need *a* room! The dungeon is killing me. Even though I'm mobile, and have a few good rooms for drums, etc; It would be nice to park my gear if I want to.

Andrew
Old 12th July 2005
  #53
Gear Addict
 
Billster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocitybmg
Well...something keeps coming out of my brain. :?
But see your doctor if it´s fluid heh
Old 12th July 2005
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot

I do think, though, that in a lot of cases it's a waste of time/creativity/money for musicians to buy a bunch of gear and try and engineer their own projects.

Ronan Chris Murphy wrote about some of this, "Home Studios are Killing Music" http://www.studioreviews.com/killingmusic.htm
Those are extreme points of view...

No offense to Chris...but dang... Of course a musician gets locked down when they start getting into recording... spends less time playing and more time tweaking...spends hours and hours, days and months working on a record.

The only trouble I see is that for some reason...those points are made out to be 'negatives'...or the down side.

Many musicians enjoy recording...enjoy the process of doing it themselves once they get started.

The guys who stop gigging so they can spend more time recording are still making a concsious choice what they are doing with thier lives. They MAY have just found out that they enjoy THIS process a little more or equally...
Anyway I look at it I can't see how any venture into any creative passion can be 'wrong'?

Some of these cat's give up playing and focus on great audio as a career...It just so happened that they took the path of a musician to get there.
Why does that sound like so many great producers?

Pro Audio / Recording can never be 'blamed' for a 'failed' career as a musician.
You either play..record...or do both...it is always a choice.

No flame bro...I think the article has merit, just not in it's current form.
Old 12th July 2005
  #55
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Hi. I figured I'd jump in here since a post of mine in another thread inspired this one as stated above. Rodney just happens to have lots of good stuff for me to explain my take on it a bit further and I'm not necessarily responding to him but using his feelings to explain mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney Gene
a musician gets locked down when they start getting into recording... spends less time playing and more time tweaking...spends hours and hours, days and months working on a record.

The only trouble I see is that for some reason...those points are made out to be 'negatives'...or the down side.
It has been a negative for my music, not for me. As I stated in the other thread, I like recording others now more than writing pursuing my own music and musically I would be light years ahead if it weren't for recording. It's guys like me I was talking about and there may or may not be lots of folks who feel like me. I just miss my musical side concerning my own musical talent and songs, but it sure helps when throwing out production ideas to bands and that's part of what keeps me busy. Folks like my input and use it in the recording / production process, and they pay me for that.

Many musicians enjoy recording...enjoy the process of doing it themselves once they get started.

It hinders the creative process for me, can't speak for others.

The guys who stop gigging so they can spend more time recording are still making a concsious choice what they are doing with thier lives. They MAY have just found out that they enjoy THIS process a little more or equally...
Anyway I look at it I can't see how any venture into any creative passion can be 'wrong'?


Nailed me to a tee.

Some of these cat's give up playing and focus on great audio as a career...It just so happened that they took the path of a musician to get there.
Why does that sound like so many great producers?


I agree, no great producer (to my immediate knowledge) came from a non-musical background. And any engineer who has a musical background is at an advantage over non-musical types. I suspect 99% of all engineers have a background in music somewhere.

Pro Audio / Recording can never be 'blamed' for a 'failed' career as a musician.
You either play..record...or do both...it is always a choice.


Yes, the choice is to be blamed for sure. Sort of the whole guns don't kill people concept...

War thumbsup
Old 4th August 2006
  #56
I wonder if nowadays its the same thing...

i guess it doesn't have to be but it seems the trend.

I always viewed recording as like painting with sound.

in that way one has to do both.

certainly humans have mastered far more complex complementay abilities
througout time.

so its not unlikely to do it well.
but also doing both can really distract you from being balanced.

since we are all sluts we now that gear~lust can get intense.
but its always about what to do with the gear which is what really energizes.
so as long as creativity learns to find a balance with engineering action and knowledge all is well.stike
Old 4th August 2006
  #57
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

I Think it's important to be all things... Musician/Songwriter as well as the Producer/Engineer ... that way if you are ever stumped in one aspect... maybe by becoming the other for a short while can inspire the side of you thats lagging...


But i do tend to see why too much of everything can hinder the creative process... stress/too much compromising in an area... can bring you down no matter what hat you may be wearing that particular moment...


Excellent thread ...


As you guessed it... I try wearing both hats...
Old 4th August 2006
  #58
Gear Head
Definitely a musician first. A technical aptitude allowed me to get into engineering. I think producing is a natural extension of the other 2.
Mark Miller
Old 4th August 2006
  #59
How many gear slutz are engineers/musicians?

Not me..

I am a solidly EX musician..

By EX I mean my guitar went under the bed for good shortly after I failed an audition to replace the guitarist with Billy Idol & Generation X circa 1980. (audition was fun though, I lasted 45 mins jamming with them, I just couldn't play lead gtr the way they wanted...! )

Even for that audition I had to dust my Les Paul off.. I had been in about 10 bands, recorded an album with one and a single with another.. but at 20 years old, my heart wasn't fully in it any more... Central to it all was that I didn't like being up on stage, I felt uncomfortably self-conscious, it wasn't nerves that went away after the first number.. This lasted right the way through the set. I guessed it wasn't the life for me...

With my rock star dream floating away slowly over the horizon...I drifted for a few years having fun working in bars & restaurants before my visits to a friend working as a tea boy at a London studio complex re-captured my imagination and lead to me pestering the studio manager until I got a tea boy job there.

By the time I started as an intern (1982) - I had already ceased playing in bands or wanting to 'make it' as a musician for several years.

I DID however want to progress in the engineering and production field.

So I am NOT both engineer and musician. For me there is a divide.. two sides of the glass. Us and Them.

But I am able to call upon the memory of recording an album & a single when I was in bands back in my late teens.. That might be why I enjoy and have made a career(?) out of working with bands in the early stages.

Once in a blue moon I will lay down some acoustic rhythm gtr for a band.. That's about it..
Old 4th August 2006
  #60
Harmless Wacko
 

You wake up with 10 gallons of talent and ambition.

Don't kid yourself that they go further, or you somehow get more gallons... if you allocate them to more undertakings.

As for the spectre of the GREAT musician/engineer...

Please name ONE.

ONE guy who was a slash and DOMINATED in both fields simultaneously... or even in the same decade.

I'm sure I'm missing somebody but.... I can't think of one.

Not speaking about RECORD PRODUCTION, mind you...

AUDIO ENGINEERING.

AE is a LIFE PURSUIT in my estimation, and one that requires every bit of the fanatical commitment to the achievement of excellence and unswerving loyalty to the mad cause that being a musician ever did.

Bring less and yer gonna get left in the dust.

Just a thought.

SM.
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