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High end Studios without a console.....
Old 28th February 2009
  #1
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High end Studios without a console.....

Hi slutz, Just wondering if there are any "true" "pro" High end studios (ones that have high end clientele) that do not use a console... Stupid question but hey "ask and ye shall receive"
Old 28th February 2009
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonslave View Post
Hi slutz, Just wondering if there are any "true" "pro" High end studios (ones that have high end clientele) that do not use a console... Stupid question but hey "ask and ye shall receive"

Well you could argue that any ICON studio is a "true pro" studio without a console.... just a control surface.

Not dissing the ICON.... I am actually an ICON fanatic.
Old 28th February 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor999 View Post
Well you could argue that any ICON studio is a "true pro" studio without a console.... just a control surface.

Not dissing the ICON.... I am actually an ICON fanatic.

I think any truly high end studio with only an Icon system would have to have an even more impressive outboard/mic list than the regular SSL equipped studio. Or am I wrong?
Old 28th February 2009
  #4
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what do you mean with high end studio !

many mastering studios didnt have a console just up too 2 soundcards too do the hybrid job ,also for a economical right recording studio nobody needs really a console this times just a collection of nice otb to provide for all contingencies.
Old 28th February 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpark View Post
what do you mean with high end studio !

many mastering studios didnt have a console just up too 2 soundcards too do the hybrid job ,also for a economical right recording studio nobody needs really a console this times just a collection of nice otb to provide for all contingencies.
I don't think we're talking about mastering studios.
Old 28th February 2009
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I think any truly high end studio with only an Icon system would have to have an even more impressive outboard/mic list than the regular SSL equipped studio. Or am I wrong?
Yes.
Old 28th February 2009
  #7
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Care to elaborate?
Old 28th February 2009
  #8
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor999 View Post
Well you could argue that any ICON studio is a "true pro" studio without a console.... just a control surface.

Not dissing the ICON.... I am actually an ICON fanatic.
Mike Shipley's Animal House studio has just an Icon, It is pretty much a mixdown focused studio. His mixes are pretty much ITB. He is about as professional as it gets!
Old 28th February 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
Mike Shipley's Animal House studio has just an Icon, It is pretty much a mixdown focused studio. His mixes are pretty much ITB. He is about as professional as it gets!
Exactly.

We are actually getting rid of one of the SSL's around here. Goodbye 4052 G/G+, hello ICON D-Control.
Old 1st March 2009
  #10
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i kinda figured

That people would say the Icon... What a big waste of money on a joystick!!I would put that money into outboard or even that pair of elams going for 60K on ebay. No Not mastering studios we are talking about Big studios with famous clients. What is all the fuss about the Icon anyway?
Old 1st March 2009
  #11
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Perhaps a lack of imagination... but I can't think of any.

But that's not counting the private setups of a great many producers who work with famous clients- which is fast becoming the paradigm in many aspects of record production.
Old 1st March 2009
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpark View Post
what do you mean with high end studio !

many mastering studios didnt have a console just up too 2 soundcards too do the hybrid job ,also for a economical right recording studio nobody needs really a console this times just a collection of nice otb to provide for all contingencies.
Anyone doing mastering with a console in the room, I'd be very wary of them.

Mastering engineers don't have consoles because a) they don't have any need of one and b) one of the reasons we have mastering engineers is because mix rooms are inherently flawed, with a great big reflective surface known as a mixing desk in the room!
Old 1st March 2009
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I think any truly high end studio with only an Icon system would have to have an even more impressive outboard/mic list than the regular SSL equipped studio. Or am I wrong?
Well, you'd need a lot more preamps that's for sure.

In theory, I can't see any reason why an icon equipped studio with more preamps than Pro tools inputs should do any worse than a console-equipped studio - providing you've got a competent assistant, a good way to provide foldback mixes and some way of submixing mics should you want to. Many people submix their desk returns anyway, esp once the basic tracking is out of the way.

That said, engineers are creatures of habit, and many will want the reassurance of a "proper" console.
Old 1st March 2009
  #14
Old 1st March 2009
  #15
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I should have said

pro tracking studio without a console
Old 1st March 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonslave View Post
pro tracking studio without a console
There you go!
Old 1st March 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonslave View Post
pro tracking studio without a console
Does this count?
Santa Barbara Sound Design
Massive tracking room. 2 Grand Pianos. Tons of outboard. 32 channels of Neve's in the wall.
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High end Studios without a console.....-sound-design-2.jpg  
Old 1st March 2009
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor999 View Post
Exactly.

We are actually getting rid of one of the SSL's around here. Goodbye 4052 G/G+, hello ICON D-Control.
I see you are in Minneapolis. What studio has an SSL and is replacing with a D-Control?
Peace Todd
Old 1st March 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Does this count?
Santa Barbara Sound Design
Massive tracking room. 2 Grand Pianos. Tons of outboard. 32 channels of Neve's in the wall.
I'm sorry Tony but the legs and feet on that and all Icons looks just plain hideous.
(Long live Ronald Mcdonald).


Not to mention there is a gaping hole up there between the speakers where the automation monitor for what ever analog console used to be up in there!!!
(And what's up with the big Urei's ?)


Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.
Old 1st March 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddF View Post
I see you are in Minneapolis. What studio has an SSL and is replacing with a D-Control?
Peace Todd

Mastermix (which is used by IPR during the weekdays).
Old 1st March 2009
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I'm sorry Tony but the legs and feet on that and all Icons looks just plain hideous.
(Long live Ronald Mcdonald).


Not to mention there is a gaping hole up there between the speakers where the automation monitor for what ever analog console used to be up in there!!!
(And what's up with the big Urei's ?)


Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.
I've never had a musician complain about latency on a HD system. Unless it was my error having left an insert running on the Master track.
Creating headphone mix with a good cue system isn't difficult, though it takes a little longer than an analogue console, obv.
Old 1st March 2009
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Anyone doing mastering with a console in the room, I'd be very wary of them.

Mastering engineers don't have consoles because a) they don't have any need of one and b) one of the reasons we have mastering engineers is because mix rooms are inherently flawed, with a great big reflective surface known as a mixing desk in the room!
actually that's wrong , hi end mastering studios have mastering consoles, they're way smaller but they certainly are there
Old 1st March 2009
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I'm sorry Tony but the legs and feet on that and all Icons looks just plain hideous.
(Long live Ronald Mcdonald).


Not to mention there is a gaping hole up there between the speakers where the automation monitor for what ever analog console used to be up in there!!!
(And what's up with the big Urei's ?)


Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.
Thrill, the OP asked about a big commercial room that does tracking. And despite what you think of it, for the past 4 years this has been one. Everything from Big Orchestral dates to Blues Traveler to Depeche Mode (last 4 albums). All done in this room. Santa Barbara Sound is a 2 room, 4500 sq. ft. facility with an ICON as it's main hub.

And BTW, I've tracked in this room many times and never heard anyone complain about the headphones.
The headhones are handled by the Furman Headphone Distribution.
So everyone has there own cue system. And the bass players love it as well.
Old 2nd March 2009
  #24
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i would tend to say it would be hard to find a "high end tracking room" without a console, simply because that would indicate the only format available is a DAW. is it truly "high end" if they don't offer tracking to multiple formats? (2" analog for example, which is often desired for tracking)

also, bussing (combining multiple mics to one track) is a huge advantage that consoles provide during tracking and is hard to work around without one.

-chris
Old 2nd March 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.
(Not incendiary, actually wondering - )
Have you ever actually used/played with an HD cue mix?
The total system latency is really low, and tons of studios are building their cue this way every day without problems.
Old 2nd March 2009
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.
Huh?
Old 2nd March 2009
  #27
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I was told that

Contollers are not something that you should invest your money in, right ergo they will loose value as new controllers come out, i gues the newest controllers are for major studios than have that kind of workflow and can afford it. I guess what I am getting at Is pretty self explanatory I would not invest in a 55K controller, It seems an SSL would hold its value much better. for instance the ICON D was the replacement for pro contol.. right? i see those going for next to nothing same with the control 24. I see that in can be useful in work flow, but I guess that we should leave these ICON D controller puchases to the studios doing mostly mixing? Correct me if I am wrong... MIXING= _ICOND D OR SSL900 TRACKING = Console =+ some outboard or ICOND and 150K worth of outboard gear
Old 2nd March 2009
  #28
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beautiful studio with a Icon and a ton of outboard gear:

FIREHOUSE RECORDING STUDIOS
Old 2nd March 2009
  #29
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yikes.
to me high end
is a great console
and a great 2" tape
recorder.
Old 2nd March 2009
  #30
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Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Lastly i would hate to be the guy setting up a monitor headphone mix for that many channels on a protools system alone. The minute the bass player starts complaining that there is some kind of latency(and as we know all bass players complain when they have to wear headphones) in his cans, is the minute you will regret not having and analog console at least for that alone.


Not true. Do it all the time.
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