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Phase Correlation-How much is it a factor in mixing?
Old 7th July 2005
  #1
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Phase Correlation-How much is it a factor in mixing?

I don't know much about this at all but, am dying to learn. Does anyone have a link to find out more about this?
How much of a roll does this play in mixing ITB and OTB?
Also with using plugins ITB. I often see a meter type thing that has -1 on one side and 0 in the middle and a +1 on the other side. What is the goal as far as recording and mixing? Where should it read at the end of a mix? I've been looking at the Spectrafoo for the longest but wasn't sure if this is something to get or not. Bob Katz said it was one of the best analyzers by far. In reading the Spectrafoo site it doesn't tell you what correlation means and the efx it cause's.
I've looked through Google but, no explaintions. Also no breakdown of what's bad about it and whats good about it.
Can someone help on this one?

Thanx
M2E
Old 7th July 2005
  #2
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Correlation meter in use...

...you use correlationmeters to check if there are phase cancelation betwin two (or more) signals. A classic example is the top- and bottem mic of a snare: say your goal is to achieve the sound like it's in real, if the mics are out of phase you'll get a diferrent may be thin or to boomy or whatever sound (depends on the frequences cancelation)

I'm using it a lot, for example:

for stereomicing esp. when you leave the "3 in 1 rule" (on acoustic guits, uprightbass, guitarcabs...), for snare, to check tricky multimicings,... for mixdown monokompatibility, when dealing with very short delays (ms)... and so on..

It has nothing to do with ITB or OTB, it's just how two signals interact.

+1 means 100% correlation -> same phase like mono.
+1 to 0 your signal is monocompatible but on 0 you have an very strong stereoeffect
-1 is out of phase, no monocomaptibility
Old 7th July 2005
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G

+1 means 100% correlation -> same phase like mono.
+1 to 0 your signal is monocompatible but on 0 you have an very strong stereoeffect
-1 is out of phase, no monocomaptibility
So if something is strongly in +1 then it still has a strong stereo signal and mono but -1 is like putting it out of phase? 0 is just a strong stereo signal? Is there any major difference in the +1 and the 0 settings?

Thanx for your help
M2E
Old 7th July 2005
  #4
In my sphere of operations phase checking during mixing is limited to:

A final check on the phase within a multi mic'ed drum kit
A final check on the phase within stereo mic's signals like acc gtr & piano

And thats about it..

Pre about 1995 it used to be different

Mixing for records made on disc cutting lathes (there WILD bass phase excursions were to be be avoided in case the caused the needle to jump out of it's groove)

Mixing for mono radio

But then I am an indie rock hack engineer... so what do I know?

Old 7th July 2005
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2E
So if something is strongly in +1 then it still has a strong stereo signal and mono
...no, +1 is only mono , 0 is pure stereo
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2E
but -1 is like putting it out of phase? 0 is just a strong stereo signal?
correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2E
Is there any major difference in the +1 and the 0 settings?
again: +1 mono (vox pan @ 12), 0 full stereo (hard left handclaps, hard right jew's harp) the needle is dancing betwin 0 and +1
if your mix is in betwin 0 and +1 you're fine.
Old 18th July 2005
  #6
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This may be a strange extension of this discussion, but what sort of phase correlations do we have to worry about for consumer stereo-expansion or surround algorithms (Dolby Pro-Logic II, etc)?

My mixes scope out quite decently and certainly downmix to mono fine, but for some reason they turn to absolute mud when played back on a PLII receiver. Any other commercial CD I listen to on there sounds fine - the vocals stay in the middle where they're supposed to be and the surrounds just play the (presumably) not-in-phase ambient stuff.
On my mixes, most instruments, even the vocals, move predominantly to the surround speakers when played back in such a system. The low-mids really seem to get crazy too.

This may not seem like such a big concern but it is for me, because lots of people who don't know better often have their "virtual surround" buttons stuck on all the time. I want to make sure my mixes don't sound like utter crap in these terrible situations.

What could be going wrong, and what do I need to do to fix this?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #7
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phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasbin View Post
This may be a strange extension of this discussion, but what sort of phase correlations do we have to worry about for consumer stereo-expansion or surround algorithms (Dolby Pro-Logic II, etc)?

My mixes scope out quite decently and certainly downmix to mono fine, but for some reason they turn to absolute mud when played back on a PLII receiver. Any other commercial CD I listen to on there sounds fine - the vocals stay in the middle where they're supposed to be and the surrounds just play the (presumably) not-in-phase ambient stuff.
On my mixes, most instruments, even the vocals, move predominantly to the surround speakers when played back in such a system. The low-mids really seem to get crazy too.

This may not seem like such a big concern but it is for me, because lots of people who don't know better often have their "virtual surround" buttons stuck on all the time. I want to make sure my mixes don't sound like utter crap in these terrible situations.

What could be going wrong, and what do I need to do to fix this?
has anyone used sonars sonitus phase correlation plugin?, is this a useful plugin to play with?, using chords and such panned stuff to make more surround sounding,or 3d sounding to be exact./? dont know how to put this but if you have messed with it you would know what im talking about,. by doing this it doesnt sound like its in the center of the head . please give your input on this. best regards
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