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the future is fake...
Old 7th July 2005
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
travista00's Avatar
 

the future is fake...

the progress of culture keeps driving down the road of fake. photographers have photoshop to retouch our hollywood starlets. recording engineers have auto-tune and beat detective. live sound has backing tracks and "guide vocals." plastic surgery continues to develop and become more and more in demand. you can clone your pets now. and it's only going to get more intense. are you ready for it?
Old 7th July 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by travista00
the progress of culture keeps driving down the road of fake. photographers have photoshop to retouch our hollywood starlets. recording engineers have auto-tune and beat detective. live sound has backing tracks and "guide vocals." plastic surgery continues to develop and become more and more in demand. you can clone your pets now. and it's only going to get more intense. are you ready for it?
uh, i think you're talking about the past bro. all this has been going on for years, except the pet cloning (i think - arf!).
Old 7th July 2005
  #3
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

never heard of airbrushing a photograph? photo retouching has been around a LONG time.
Old 7th July 2005
  #4
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Curtis Franklin's Avatar
 

i think most of this stuff has been around for a long time, but only recently things are getting good enough to be tolerable.

im ready for both the mainstream and the totally predictable reactionary current. i got melodyne; i have a decent live room. wakkadoo wak wakkadoo
Old 7th July 2005
  #5
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by travista00
the progress of culture keeps driving down the road of fake. photographers have photoshop to retouch our hollywood starlets. recording engineers have auto-tune and beat detective. live sound has backing tracks and "guide vocals." plastic surgery continues to develop and become more and more in demand. you can clone your pets now. and it's only going to get more intense. are you ready for it?
Your proposition is based on the assumption that the public doesn't know these things, and they are being "faked."

The general culture in question sees these contrivances as design choices, not fakery devices. It is a social compact. The re-touching photographer doesn't seek to fake people out, he just wants his photo to look good, just as the people seeing it will want it to look good. We all know the photo has been retouched; any 12yo can do that sort of thing now on their home computer. If we're all "in on it," it can't be considered fake, right?

One of the strongest and most basic of instincts among homo sapiens, has always been the instinct to master one's environment. Every other mammal on this planet adapts to their environment, but we do not: We co-opt our enviroment - that is our genius, what sets us apart.

Our culture will always reflect that instinct. Only now, we've gone beyond paving cities and highways, and on to redesigning ourselves: What we look like, what our music sounds like, the physical limitations of athletes, et al. We've already mastered the planet, right? So, where else do you turn after that? (And don't say "Space" because that will remain a country club exclusive to the uber-wealthy for quite some time.)

So don't see the question as "Are you ready for it?" but rather, "If this is nothing new, why am I thinking about it?"

You'll immediately think of an answer to that second question, then instantly realize that answer was wrong. Don't worry: That's normal. Think of it as an existential Rubic's Cube. No one ever figures it out the first time.
Old 7th July 2005
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Records are fake, pictures are fake, paintings are fake, movies are fake...

But that doesn't make them un-enjoyable, or useless.
Old 7th July 2005
  #7
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travista00
the progress of culture keeps driving down the road of fake. photographers have photoshop to retouch our hollywood starlets. recording engineers have auto-tune and beat detective. live sound has backing tracks and "guide vocals." plastic surgery continues to develop and become more and more in demand. you can clone your pets now. and it's only going to get more intense. are you ready for it?
hasn't American culture been like that for quite sometime.

If you want the answer, "culture" isnt heading towards fake it is just getting lazy. People want perfection without the required effort or talent.

Look at the success of weightloss products that require no excerise. The companies behind such products are experiencing greater success than every excerise institute put together in the US. The level of obesity alone reflects the laziness of society. No exercise, no fresh food or properly home cooked meals, just take away because it is easier. Welcome to the era of Fat.

The strive for perfection isn't an easy one, so people are looking for alternative quick fixes.

When i was a kid my father always told me "if it is worth doing, it is worth doing right". If i was in the same situation yet with todays society he'd be telling me "If you want it done right, do i yourself".



Dude you are way to hung up on the negative. Im surprised you haven't done something drastic yet.
Old 7th July 2005
  #8
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blaugruen7's Avatar
everything runs in cycles (... or squares?)
but i want to say,
that i think every direction has its end.
sometime in the future everyone will be bored by plasticsound
and there will be acoustic music again.
or something complete different...
Old 7th July 2005
  #9
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Yeah, I'm ready for this future. I believe it's called progress. When synthesizers first started getting used people also thought it was 'fake'.
I remember that on the 'Queen' album 'A night at the Opera' it stated: "No synthesizers!" meaning: nothing 'fake' on here.
What's 'fake'? Using a reverb is 'fake', using lights on a film set is 'fake', multi-tracking is 'fake', editing is 'fake'. What's wrong with that? You still need talent and skill to fake it right, don't you?
I think it takes a hell of a lot of skill to really use photoshop right. I can't do it.
Same goes for cloning that pet. It might be 'fake' but it sure as hell ain't easy.
Anything done right requires talent, skill and practise. Whether you use modern technology doesn't mean a f*ck. If you autotune a singer but the melody and the song were crap to start with you still end up with...crap.
But who cares if you fix the tuning in a great composition?

Get over it.

Cheers, Julian
Old 7th July 2005
  #10
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RichT's Avatar
 

My signature says it all...
Old 7th July 2005
  #11
Gear Addict
 
JulianBrightnes's Avatar
 

Mr Burroughs can express himself far better than I can, but I agree..
Old 7th July 2005
  #12
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

others have made great points, all i can add is this:

the future is indeed fake, it is a complete and total fraud. the only thing that is real is now, right now, this very instant. there is no future, only an eternally unfolding series of present moments.

and in this moment, there are something on the order of, oh, maybe 800,000,000,000 things happening in the visible world alone. your experience of life, how you feel about the world, about other people, about your self, depends entirely and exclusively on where you choose to put your focus and the ensuing judgments you hold about what you see.

so for every example of increasing fake you can cite, i can cite an equally compelling piece of evidence for the increasing connection of human beings on more meaningful levels than ever, for the expression of beauty through music with more impact than ever, and for the awesome expansion of the creative mojo in all forms, in all directions.

sure there's bullshi† in my life, i just don't give it any more attention than is absolutely necessary to deal with it and move on. what i can't change, i accept. what i like, i embrace, what i don't, i ignore.

that kind of simplicity works well for me; as always, ymmv.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 7th July 2005
  #13
I would wager that children discuss cosmetic surgery nowadays in a 'what are you going to do when you grow up" / future ambition.
Old 7th July 2005
  #14
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Listen to what you like. Look at what you like. Don't listen to what you don't like. Don't look at what you don't like.

How hard is this?

To Hell with limits on how humans express themselves creatively. You can never please everyone... but the desire to create should never be stiffled.

Just my 2 cents... Don't be mad at me because I used a fancy computer to type this and correct my grammatical errors instead of writing on paper by hand, hiring a proof-reader, and then hand delivering it to each of you by walking to each of your homes.....
Old 7th July 2005
  #15
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well on a basic level: guide vocals in live performance are lame as hell. can you imagine zep or hendrix using friggin pre recorded vocal tracks?? so lame. say goodby to all spontaniety or jams or any rhythmic flex at all once you turn those live clicks and taped vocals on. then again since the performers have no interest in any of these things i guess it does not matter....

to me 90% of the excitement of a live show is when unexpected things happen. that's what keeps me involved. just saw holdsworth's trio two nights ago. not to many prerecorded sections there....

half way through an unreal solo his power amp died and the drummer and bass player took over. then they hooked up another amp and finished off the set. energy.
Old 7th July 2005
  #16
Gear Addict
 
carlsaff's Avatar
 

Quote:
and it's only going to get more intense. are you ready for it?
Actually, these are the kinds of things I'm hearing more of lately:

"Jeez, anyone can sing with AutoTune... don't use that on my voice."
"Lucas should use less CGI."
"I want real drums, not samples."
"Use room mics, not digital reverb."

Not everyone out there is so easily duped by techno-flash garbage. Not saying these things don't have their time and place, but most people recognize new technologies being abused, and sense that it is tacky.
Old 7th July 2005
  #17
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??? Isn't the whole point of art "fake"?

Art is supposed to take us out of the realm of reality. It could be to make a point, it could be to draw emotions - whatever.

A photograph Mona Lisa would probably be truer to reality than DaVinci's interpreation using paint, but who'd want a photo of that "dog" on your wall heh
Old 7th July 2005
  #18
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
??? Isn't the whole point of art "fake"?

Art is supposed to take us out of the realm of reality.
what most people call "reality" is the fake ... the point of art is reality.

real as in universal metaphor, not real as in pavement, or dogma.


a persons view of reality that resonates with another's, that's enjoyment.
Old 7th July 2005
  #19
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Perfect boobs...perfect nose...perfect pitch...

Real boobs...real nose...real pitch...

Niether one determines your quality of life, niether one is an indication of talent, soul or conviction.

As someone else put it...Those are modern choices.
Old 7th July 2005
  #20
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David R.'s Avatar
 

To be honest, I am actually computer gererated.
Old 7th July 2005
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
what most people call "reality" is the fake ... the point of art is reality
Ahh c'mon. The depression was reality, and the arts flourished because it took people away from it.

I know your point though - art has been used very effectively throughout history to reveal the truth.
Old 7th July 2005
  #22
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
Ahh c'mon. The depression was reality, and the arts flourished because it took people away from it.

I know your point though - art has been used very effectively throughout history to reveal the truth.
Sure, there will always be escapist art and entertianment ... yet that escapism IS the reality people hold true for themselves. The depression was of this world, and art is always of the spirit.

Art makes real our spirit's reality ... deep music, shallow music or otherwise. It's real to those who enjoy it.

Anything we enjoy resonates with who we REALLY are.
Old 7th July 2005
  #23
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit
just saw holdsworth's trio two nights ago. not to many prerecorded sections there....
Is Joel Taylor still playing drums wiith Holdsworth? I was recently digging through my cassette bin & came across a recording I did in 1982 that featured Joel smacking the **** out of a metal garbage can.

But in regards to the topic at hand:

Plastic surgery isn't fake; that's *real* surgery those people are undergoing, and it's *really* making changes to those people's physical appearance. Likewise, AutoTune isn't fake; it's *really* automatically tuning the intonation electronically. Multitracking is fake? Not a chance, I'm *really* overdubbing different instruments on this here *real* tape deck with *real* sel-sync heads, & when I'm done I'll *really* have a recording that people can *really* listen to.

The concept of "Fake" is way too fraught with semantic misunderstanding for it to be an effective cultural condemnation.
Old 7th July 2005
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross
Is Joel Taylor still playing drums wiith Holdsworth? I was recently digging through my cassette bin & came across a recording I did in 1982 that featured Joel smacking the **** out of a metal garbage can.
i missed his name. sort of short, round, scruffy, white. and, almost needless to say and not something that separates him from any of holdsworths drummers, a BAD ASS MOFO.

ok. i just checked. it was joel taylor. scary.
Old 7th July 2005
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
what most people call "reality" is the fake ... the point of art is reality.

real as in universal metaphor, not real as in pavement, or dogma.


a persons view of reality that resonates with another's, that's enjoyment.


w00t w00t
Old 7th July 2005
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
Amplove's Avatar
 

Travis, it's nice to see someone here in Los Angeles who still questions that sort of crap. I too believe that it's terrible and cheap and it's sad. Autotune, beat detective and sound replacement is for wannabees and the talentless. fuuck Where's the human element? Has it been replaced? The sadest thing is that the young kids don't even know or give a ****. It's up to the die hard purists to carry the torch and keep the little amount of integrity that still lives in this industry...alive.
Jason
Old 7th July 2005
  #27
Gear Nut
 

But isn't there a such thing as real and perfect boobs?
Old 7th July 2005
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Zeppelin4Life's Avatar
 

haha, exactly. You can go out to Walmart and buy a disposable camera for a few bucks...but people still hire professional photographers all the time...there is a reason for this...quality, passion, devotion to an art...you cant replace that.
Old 7th July 2005
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Amplove's Avatar
 

Don't get me started on boobs. I take boobs very seriously. tutt Almost as serious as music and I want the real deal.
jason
Old 7th July 2005
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. There are real boobs that happen to be perfect. Consider it a metaphor for life.
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