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First TRUE studio(hows this)
Old 5th July 2005
  #1
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

First TRUE studio(hows this)

This week we will be start building a true studio vs some half ass stuff...

here's the setup i designed:
Apogee rosetta 800
Apogee XFirewire card
Apogee Bigben
Motu midi expressXT

Mackie Big knob
Mackie Control(24ch with a C4)

Adam s25A monitors
Akg 271 headphones

Sony c800G
Wunder Audio peq1R
Crane song Trakker

custom desk designed for the mackie controls to fit snug(unless argosy has one)

Custom Daw(Amd X4800,4gig of ram, 3 300gig drives etc...
3 Uad-1's
projector (vs getting 2 19's or 2 21's i'd rather have a projector at about 60-70inches


if there are things you thing i should add or change please be free to say...i'm open to change anything but the equipment will be ordered wednesday or thursday this week.
Old 5th July 2005
  #2
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Brent's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
This week we will be start building a true studio vs some half ass stuff...

here's the setup i designed:
Apogee rosetta 800
Apogee XFirewire card
Apogee Bigben
Motu midi expressXT

Mackie Big knob
Mackie Control(24ch with a C4)

Adam s25A monitors
Akg 271 headphones

Sony c800G
Wunder Audio peq1R
Crane song Trakker

custom desk designed for the mackie controls to fit snug(unless argosy has one)

Custom Daw(Amd X4800,4gig of ram, 3 300gig drives etc...
3 Uad-1's
projector (vs getting 2 19's or 2 21's i'd rather have a projector at about 60-70inches


if there are things you thing i should add or change please be free to say...i'm open to change anything but the equipment will be ordered wednesday or thursday this week.

I think you'll find the life span of projector bulbs and the cost of replacement not to be worth it. Just my 2 cents
Old 5th July 2005
  #3
Gear Nut
 
Lanstar Zero's Avatar
 

hip-hop based, I assume? Maybe get one of those Magma chassis' and put the 3 UAD's in ther plus 3 Powercore cards?!

Nice setup, though. You migh to consider getting either another mic that contrasts with the sony, or getting a few $1000-$2000 mics - to have options. The Sony won't work with every singer. Maybe look at the Korby KAT4 system...

Otherwise, very nice!
Old 5th July 2005
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Lanstar Zero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
I think you'll find the life span of projector bulbs and the cost of replacement not to be worth it. Just my 2 cents
I agree. Just get 2 21" LCD's - that'll be plenty pimp! !
Old 5th July 2005
  #5
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SUPA FROST's Avatar
 

Hmmmmm maybe a summing box, you could try a Dangerous 2buss. That's the only thing I can think of off hand. Oh yeah, as Lanstar Zero said, maybe add a few more mics to your collection. Other than that, you should be pretty much good to go!
Good Luck!
Old 5th July 2005
  #6
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orange's Avatar
 

forget the projector - they don't really work in the studio.

Great for watching movies but no good for music software - do a search on gearslutz for more opinions.

At the very least you should demo a projector in your studio before you part with the cash. Check for:

1 resolution (probably too low)
2 noise (probably too high)
3 light output (probably too dim when the lights are on)

a good idea in principle but unsatisfactory in reality.

just my 2p

si
Old 5th July 2005
  #7
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dussel's Avatar
 

Forget the projector, the noise is nasty and hard to reduce, the picture is definitely not up to par with todays LCDs and the bulbs are quite expensive.

If you ask me do not buy to many MC extension right away. Maybe you just buy the central one and see if you really like it. I heavily use my MC, but I know from lots of people who did not like the Experience.

Furthermore I request that you have a look at Presonus Central Station. I use it together with its remote control and I think it beats the Big Knob. a) it sounds better IMHO b) you get a second DA as a reference. Its shurely not up to your apogees, but I like having the option c) it looks&feels better.

Dussel
Old 5th July 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
David Lee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dussel
Forget the projector, the noise is nasty and hard to reduce, the picture is definitely not up to par with todays LCDs and the bulbs are quite expensive.

If you ask me do not buy to many MC extension right away. Maybe you just buy the central one and see if you really like it. I heavily use my MC, but I know from lots of people who did not like the Experience.

Furthermore I request that you have a look at Presonus Central Station. I use it together with its remote control and I think it beats the Big Knob. a) it sounds better IMHO b) you get a second DA as a reference. Its shurely not up to your apogees, but I like having the option c) it looks&feels better.

Dussel
i'll second this...the Central Station is pretty great...

also...if you need a control surface, look into the US-2400, i have one and love it.
Old 5th July 2005
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Yep yep about the projectors. Just go LCD or save sum more money with CRT's. projectors mite be high maintenance when changing bulbs. They cost as much as a CRT. I've worked with projectors before, very awkward feel to it. But if it works with u, then that's the thing u should get.

Just go straight to X2. The price is close with X4800 and u get 2 processors of that.Why 4 gig? will u be using it full?

Have u considered the 10,000rpm Raptors from western digital?

Good luck. It's a kick ass setup.
Old 5th July 2005
  #10
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanstar Zero
hip-hop based, I assume? Maybe get one of those Magma chassis' and put the 3 UAD's in ther plus 3 Powercore cards?!

Nice setup, though. You migh to consider getting either another mic that contrasts with the sony, or getting a few $1000-$2000 mics - to have options. The Sony won't work with every singer. Maybe look at the Korby KAT4 system...

Otherwise, very nice!
yes hiphop and r&b based. as for the magma i'll look into it, but if we get poco's we'll probably get the firewire one.

as for other pics i was thinking about the peluso 22 47limited and or the 22 251. i know they'll offer a 100% different tone vs the c800

the reason i choose the sony is b/c i haven't found an artist that doesn't sound good on it yet. unlike the u87.. i always find artist that don't sound good on it.
i did look into the korby. i heard they have a custom c800 capsule.. is that true? if so i'll get the korby with the C800,251 and probably the u47 heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dussel
Forget the projector, the noise is nasty and hard to reduce, the picture is definitely not up to par with todays LCDs and the bulbs are quite expensive.

If you ask me do not buy to many MC extension right away. Maybe you just buy the central one and see if you really like it. I heavily use my MC, but I know from lots of people who did not like the Experience.

Furthermore I request that you have a look at Presonus Central Station. I use it together with its remote control and I think it beats the Big Knob. a) it sounds better IMHO b) you get a second DA as a reference. Its shurely not up to your apogees, but I like having the option c) it looks&feels better.

Dussel
the only reason i thought about a projector is my partner has one setup with his icon and hd3 system. it looks awesome and its huge. he has it set around 60inchs and the detail it has is great... but if its not the best choice i'll get 2 21 LCD's...

as for the MC... i've used them and i know 1 extension felt great. i don't like using just the main unit i need some extra faders plus for clients i think 24 faders will look better too... not to mention the c4 for plugins...
one question about the c4.. i mainly use urs,some waves and uad eq's, comp etc.. with the c4 control all of them?

the central station. i actually did look into the central station.. i've never used it and i had issues with presonus b4 thats the only reason i didn't choose it over the big knob.. seems that a lot of ppl are telling me to forget about the knob so its gone...


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Lee
i'll second this...the Central Station is pretty great...

also...if you need a control surface, look into the US-2400, i have one and love it.
i don't like the us2400.. i checked it out for my personal spot when i came out.. i don't like the way it feels i wouldn't mind having a pro control or control24 but they won't work with nuendo 3 so having a limited choice i'm gonna choose the mackie

Quote:
Originally Posted by manisedap
Yep yep about the projectors. Just go LCD or save sum more money with CRT's. projectors mite be high maintenance when changing bulbs. They cost as much as a CRT. I've worked with projectors before, very awkward feel to it. But if it works with u, then that's the thing u should get.

Just go straight to X2. The price is close with X4800 and u get 2 processors of that.Why 4 gig? will u be using it full?

Have u considered the 10,000rpm Raptors from western digital?

Good luck. It's a kick ass setup.
the x4800 is the X2.. its called the X2 4800. the dual core. awesome chip.
4 gig, why.. pc my father owns a computer company and i can get what ever i want.
as for the drives.. i do already own a 10k rpm 8mb cache Sata drive. i no longer use it with audio b/c i use to get drive spikes sometimes. i didn't know why.. i copied the song from that drive to one of the ide drives and the session never jumped at all...
raptors are good drives but the new 7200.7 barracuda are said to be faster


Glad i put a nice setup together. i'll add 1-2 more mics and probably some api's pres too....
Old 18th July 2005
  #11
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

EDIT: AS OF 7-1705 THE SETUP IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT
no more apogee other than the Big ben

LYNX AES16
Lynx Aurora 16
Apogee Bigben
Motu midi expressXT

Presonus Control station with remote
Tascam fw1884 2with 2 fE8's(used only as a controller not an interface) Until we get the WKaudio ID control)

Adam s25A monitors
Akg 271 headphones

Sony c800G
Chandler LTD-1
BAE 312A
Crane song Trakker

Argosy desk(90series)

dual Opteron 275 Daw
3 uad-1 and 3 Firewire powercores
Old 18th July 2005
  #12
You are going to have some serious Plug In muscle..

Have you budgeted for the extra plug in 'goodies' that you DONT get bundled with the cards?

Back up system?

Way to keep computer noise down?

Air con?

Old 18th July 2005
  #13
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
EDIT: AS OF 7-1705 THE SETUP IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT
no more apogee other than the Big ben

LYNX AES16
Lynx Aurora 16
Apogee Bigben
Motu midi expressXT

Presonus Control station with remote
Tascam fw1884 2with 2 fE8's(used only as a controller not an interface) Until we get the WKaudio ID control)

Adam s25A monitors
Akg 271 headphones

Sony c800G
Chandler LTD-1
BAE 312A
Crane song Trakker

Argosy desk(90series)

dual Opteron 275 Daw
3 uad-1 and 3 Firewire powercores
I would strongly suggest the Mackie over any Tascam, the Mackie has a built in LCD strip which tells you what you're looking at and actually increases your workflow. I use it with Nuendo every day and it's flawless in operation.

If you're going to drop $5,500 on a Sony C800G for the "bling" factor, I'd probably look at getting a "real" Neve solely for attracting clients. The rapper / R&B crowd would be wowed knowing you have Dre's setup...

That is a TON of redundant plug in power, how many tracks do you plan on processing? Curious is all, but you might want to spread that around. Keep in mind that buying one UAD-1 "Ultra" Pak unlocks all of the available UA plugs, and then buying the "Project" paks will run ALL of the plugs and provide the exact same horsepower.

Best of luck, sounds like you're moving up in the world!?

War
Old 18th July 2005
  #14
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
EDIT: AS OF 7-1705 THE SETUP IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT
no more apogee other than the Big ben

LYNX AES16
Lynx Aurora 16
Apogee Bigben
Motu midi expressXT

Presonus Control station with remote
Tascam fw1884 2with 2 fE8's(used only as a controller not an interface) Until we get the WKaudio ID control)

Adam s25A monitors
Akg 271 headphones

Sony c800G
Chandler LTD-1
BAE 312A
Crane song Trakker

Argosy desk(90series)

dual Opteron 275 Daw
3 uad-1 and 3 Firewire powercores
Hi,

Nice gear...

In your place I´ll take out 1 of the UAD and the remote control for the central station and go for the Adams 3 instead of the 2.5. It´ll be easier for you to buy a remote control or a PCI card later than upgrading your monitoring system!

PUPO
Old 18th July 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
 
DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
You are going to have some serious Plug In muscle..

Have you budgeted for the extra plug in 'goodies' that you DONT get bundled with the cards?

Back up system?

Way to keep computer noise down?

Air con?

i'ma get the ultra pack uad-1 and 3 project cards. the ultra come with everything but the new boss and roland plugs.
back up system.. yep i have a decent backup system, not to mention my father owns a computer comapny so i can get anything i need.... but at the moment i have a Dlt setup along with 2 300gig backup drives and DVD-RW's...

computer noise... its silent. i just built a dual 250 opteron system for a partner of mine.. it was so quiet we didn't even know it was on.... the dual 275 will probably be water cooled and if it isn't i can get a sound proof rack if i need it for the computer so its not an issue.
and yes our control room does have A/c along with the booth..


Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead
I would strongly suggest the Mackie over any Tascam, the Mackie has a built in LCD strip which tells you what you're looking at and actually increases your workflow. I use it with Nuendo every day and it's flawless in operation.

If you're going to drop $5,500 on a Sony C800G for the "bling" factor, I'd probably look at getting a "real" Neve solely for attracting clients. The rapper / R&B crowd would be wowed knowing you have Dre's setup...

That is a TON of redundant plug in power, how many tracks do you plan on processing? Curious is all, but you might want to spread that around. Keep in mind that buying one UAD-1 "Ultra" Pak unlocks all of the available UA plugs, and then buying the "Project" paks will run ALL of the plugs and provide the exact same horsepower.

Best of luck, sounds like you're moving up in the world!?

War
i like the way the tascam feel over the mackie and the lcd isn't a big thing seeing that the tascam has the softLCD now.. we have a 43inch plasma along with 2-20inch lcd's.. so i have more than enough screen area to see the SoflLCD

the c800 is already bought. i choose the chandler ltd1 over the ams-neve 1073... i liked it a little more. i loved the wunder audio peq1R's eq but the chandler overall was the best 1073 style pre for me vs the real unit.
i'll probably get a 1073 from BAE too....
i'm also getting a the peluso mics.. the 22 251 and the 22 47limited for a different flavor

as for the uad-1, yea i know to buy 1 ultra and the others can be project cards...
as for why all the power.. b/c i can have it.. thats about it.. lol
track count wise... 16 to 64 usually... but i wanna start working 24/96 too vs 24/48 though i was told today with the converters i want with the bigben 24/48 is gonna sound a lot different than my current setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74
Hi,

Nice gear...

In your place I´ll take out 1 of the UAD and the remote control for the central station and go for the Adams 3 instead of the 2.5. It´ll be easier for you to buy a remote control or a PCI card later than upgrading your monitoring system!

PUPO
the remote for the central station is a almost a must and the uad-1 with it isn't even $600.. so its not hurting anything...
the adam 3, i just did some reshearch on but personally the 2.5A's work out better for me not to mention i might grap the adam sub10 too... our room is being designed with the 2.5A's in mind too
the 2.5 to the 3 isn't a huge difference imo... yea the 3's have the extra speaker that kicks in under 150hz... but freq range wise the 2.5's aren't really off... plus i've mixed on the 2.5a's and loved it.
aren't the a3's really midfield monitors over nearfield.. i guess they could still be used as nearfields but i personally choose the 2.5a over the 3's.

the uad-1s are gonna probably go into a magma chassis depending on what board i get for the cpu's ... i was told to max out the computer.. so i'ma max it out with 3-4 uad-1's... i'll probably use Urs eq's more than the uad-1's but i'll be using uad-1 compressors and reverbs no doubt.

i love you guys.. your actually helpful... more than i can say for other forums.. where can i get me some gearslut gear???
Old 18th July 2005
  #16
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Krubbadoo's Avatar
 

You should get a Dbx 160X for your vocals duties. Amazing on rappers and pretty cheap too.
Old 18th July 2005
  #17
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krubbadoo
You should get a Dbx 160X for your vocals duties. Amazing on rappers and pretty cheap too.
i don't care for the 160x. i'm sure the crane song trakker will do just fine.
might grab a la3a too..
Old 18th July 2005
  #18
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electric's Avatar
 

second the dbx 160x(or xt). best 200.00 you'll ever spend in your rap chain.

electric
Old 18th July 2005
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
i love you guys.. your actually helpful... more than i can say for other forums.. where can i get me some gearslut gear???
click on the small blue button above that says "merch"

T's are cool and the studio mugs rule!

Old 18th July 2005
  #20
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by electric
second the dbx 160x(or xt). best 200.00 you'll ever spend in your rap chain.

electric
i've use the 160's... nothing i want anymore. i don't go by the norm... all b/c others use 160's doesn't mean i'm gonna use it. i go off my experience with the equipment and personally i don't want the 160 as my main vocal compressor. if you've ever used a trakker you know you can make it sound like almost any compressor.

today i'll be ordering the trakker and a distressor or the trakker and something along the lines of a la3a
Old 18th July 2005
  #21
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Doublehelix's Avatar
 

I have an Aurora-16 on the way as well, and from what the Lynx folks claim, there will be very little difference (none?) in the sound by clocking with the Big Ben. We have all read Fletcher's comments on the improvements that the Big Ben made, and when I brought this up with the folks at Lynx, they claim that it is just "personal preference" or something like that.

Lynx says that they did some extensive testing using all types of digital test gear and can see no benefit to using the Big Ben with regard to reducing jitter

They also claim that with the Syncrolock (or whatever it is called), the Big Ben will have no effect at all, that is unless you actually go in and disable the Syncrolock feature through software, which *requires* the AES-16 card.

Of course my reply is that testing gear is all fine and dandy, but how does it *sound*???

I have an older Lucid GenX6-96 clock that I am going to experiment with before I invest in the Big Ben, and obviously, use my ears rather than a test meter.
Old 18th July 2005
  #22
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

hmmm... Im not sure the central station is the best option. Well atleast using its D/A converters... I'd go with the coleman passive monitor control.

The tascam may feel better, but it hasn't been very unreliable according to people on the tascam forums. I'd steer clear to save any potential (and very likely it appears) problems.

have you through about biting the bullet and just getting something like a DM-1000? For the price of a control surface, conversion and a monitor section you are pretty much there. You also get 16 channels of nice clean preamps that do the job more than adequately (great if you run short on outboard pre's), you get 48channels of gates, compressors, eq's and delay, surround capabilities, daw control, monitor section, full automation and 24bit 96khz standard... none of that dual wire ****... and about a gazillion ways to connect it. My vote is for an RME madi card and an Audio services madi expansion for the DM1000... thats the entire 48channels over 1 cable.

yamaha's new line is no comparison with there older junk.



unless of course you just wanna fill the racks...
Old 18th July 2005
  #23
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublehelix
I have an Aurora-16 on the way as well, and from what the Lynx folks claim, there will be very little difference (none?) in the sound by clocking with the Big Ben. We have all read Fletcher's comments on the improvements that the Big Ben made, and when I brought this up with the folks at Lynx, they claim that it is just "personal preference" or something like that.

Lynx says that they did some extensive testing using all types of digital test gear and can see no benefit to using the Big Ben with regard to reducing jitter

They also claim that with the Syncrolock (or whatever it is called), the Big Ben will have no effect at all, that is unless you actually go in and disable the Syncrolock feature through software, which *requires* the AES-16 card.

Of course my reply is that testing gear is all fine and dandy, but how does it *sound*???

I have an older Lucid GenX6-96 clock that I am going to experiment with before I invest in the Big Ben, and obviously, use my ears rather than a test meter.
yea i've been reading that stuff too over at lynx's forum... so perhaps i don't need the bigben. i do have a friend that will let me test the aurora with it.. so i'll do that first b4 spending the extra money on the bigben.
as for the aes-16 card.. i'm getting it along with the aurora16



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy!!
hmmm... Im not sure the central station is the best option. Well atleast using its D/A converters... I'd go with the coleman passive monitor control.

The tascam may feel better, but it hasn't been very unreliable according to people on the tascam forums. I'd steer clear to save any potential (and very likely it appears) problems.

have you through about biting the bullet and just getting something like a DM-1000? For the price of a control surface, conversion and a monitor section you are pretty much there. You also get 16 channels of nice clean preamps that do the job more than adequately (great if you run short on outboard pre's), you get 48channels of gates, compressors, eq's and delay, surround capabilities, daw control, monitor section, full automation and 24bit 96khz standard... none of that dual wire ****... and about a gazillion ways to connect it. My vote is for an RME madi card and an Audio services madi expansion for the DM1000... thats the entire 48channels over 1 cable.

yamaha's new line is no comparison with there older junk.


unless of course you just wanna fill the racks...
i'll look into the coleman. i'd only use the central stations D/A converters for a reference... not my main d/a's..i'd use the aurora or a dac-1
as for the tascam issues.. i've know some ppl having problems but most of them had macs or latency issues.. i'm only gonna use it as a controller...

as for the dm1000, naw don't really want it if i go that route. i did look at the o2r96 and dm2000 at one point... i even looked at the Tascam dm-3200.
its still an option.
Old 18th July 2005
  #24
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

i just took a look at the Coleman Audio M3PH mkII & TB4 MKII
i do like the m3ph but i'm not sure how comfortable it'll be to keep reaching over the desk to mess with the volume and change monitors. i really like the m3ph but i wish it had a talkback section on it like the tb4. the only downside to the tb4 is it doesn't have a alternate monitor section like the m3ph...
they don't seem to be bad units but the presonus seems to have everything i want plus the remote has the monitor section to switch my monitors, talkback and the overall volume. from talking to ppl with the central station, its pure passive unless going through its digital in's.so it looks like i'ma go that route....
Old 18th July 2005
  #25
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

ok i'm talkin to my guys now.. looks like they want the Wk Id control now.. not an avg controller.. they want something that i won't wanna upgrade from but i can expand.. so i told um i can get the id from primal gear for $25000.. so that in now...
only issue is it takes me over the 50,000 i was gonna spend so i need to change something to at least get the price down to 48-49K...

i don't really wanna change the c800G b/c if i switch from it as the main mic i'ma go up to the korby kat 4 system.. that cost more.

i was thinking.. get rid of the trakker and get a distressor. the chandler pre can stay
i might tune the computer down a little.. it is overkill but hey... i never have to worry about needing more power.. but i think going back to the X2 4800 or going to a dual opteron 250 should be fine...

what do you think?
Old 18th July 2005
  #26
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blaugruen7's Avatar
i would only buy the akg271s headphones if you really need a closed one.
otherwise the akg 240s has a faar better low end and and overal better sound.
i have compared both directly and have owned the 270s model.
Old 19th July 2005
  #27
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DeeDrive's Avatar
 

What confuses me is you only have 1 mic on your list. ??? I hope you really, really like this Sony mic. You could afford a TON of mics for the price of that mic. Unless you've already got a mic collection you'll be bringing in, you're gonna need more than just a ridiculously nice LDC.
Old 19th July 2005
  #28
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

$25,000 on an ID?

what ever floats your boat...

but half the budget on gear that doesn't effect the quality of audio is my idea of wise spending... again what ever floats your boat.

I'd be getting one of these

http://www.audient.co.uk/Audient_Pro...D=17&ItemID=34

or maybe looking into one of these

http://www.oram.co.uk/dream%20consoles.htm

Or a Neotek seriess III, Elite or Elan.


but, i'll say it again. what ever floats your boat.
Old 19th July 2005
  #29
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy!!
The tascam may feel better, but it hasn't been very unreliable according to people on the tascam forums. I'd steer clear to save any potential (and very likely it appears) problems.
eBay has been LOADED DOWN with refurb Tascam US2400 models (be careful because many of the sellers are hiding the fact that they're refurbs...), and we received 2 in a row that wouldn't load the software and work. So, I have a feeling failure is not new to this controller...thus more hatred towards this piece of **** from me...

War
Old 19th July 2005
  #30
Lives for gear
 

I'll second the suggestions to avoid the FW-1884. Do a search here and you'll find a lot that I've written, but I think those boxes are unadulterated pieces of crap and aren't worth the effort to throw away.

Basically, the control capabilities are mediocre, the firewire interface isn't up to spec, the midi tends to move out of sync due to communications issues with the firewire, and the entire analog front end gets blown out (sometimes as many as 4 channels at a time) if you plug a mic in while phantom is on. I had these problems with 4 of these pieces of crap... Other than that, they are fine... dfegad

--Ben
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