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Mesa and Marshall Amps
Old 12th July 2005 | Show parent
  #31
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jerdude's Avatar
 

Quote:
ok so.... i would need to get the RM4 with 4 modules... the RT2/50 and then either a cab of any type... a randall cab... OR are any of you using the ISOLATION 12C with 1 celestion vintage 30?
Quote:
could anyone comment on using the ISOLATION 12C versus other types of cabs... specifically... what would be the advantage of using one over the other.
Quote:
is a good guitar cab one that outputs the tone with no coloration... or one that colorfully "enhances" the amp/tone?
any comments on these questions?
Old 12th July 2005 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerdude
any comments on these questions?
man, all amp speakers are seriously coloured.
it's all about the speakers hiding the nasty upper mid distortion of the overdriven output tubes and saturated transformer. be brave, put low watt alnico's in your cabs.

DEEE-licious
Old 12th July 2005 | Show parent
  #33
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

I use the Randall RM-50HB head with a Avatar 2X12 loaded with celestion vintage 30s... The RM4 with the RT2/50 would be the optimal way to go, but the RM-50HB just sounds fantastic and is in my opinion WAY more flexible then any other amp I've ever owned without compromising quality of sound. I just tell the gear snobs to listen and then they start to come around and warm up to it....
I've also been very pleased with Randalls tech support- very helpful! Plus, you can get the modules modified in several different ways and ask the designer, Bruce Egnater questions on the Egnater forum....
ME LIKEY!
Old 12th July 2005 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

the old peavey 5150's appear on a few albums too

the Boggies seem to be where it's at for modern rock though.. and noone seems to use the modern marshalls (jcm2000's) though you can get a reasonable sound out of them with a bit of playing
Old 12th July 2005 | Show parent
  #35
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natpub's Avatar
I remain happy with my Triaxis/Stereo 2/90 rig.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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mesa 400+ bass head

hey! I'm new to this business so forgive me if I'm going about this all wrong. Had a question i was hoping anyone might be able to shed some light on. I've got a mesa 400+ bass head. The SVT 8x10 i usually use is currently out of order (magnet ripped off the speaker entirely. Oops!). Wondering if running 400 tube watts thru a kustom 2x15 bass cab would destroy it? Or my head? Or what the ohms rating on that 2x15 would even be. Any help??
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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i've never been able to get a good tone out of a mesa rectifier. always so fizzy, loose bottom and lacking any real power. I recently had a modern rock band in and we tried out the guitarist's brand new roadster and got the best we could out of it. I then plugged in my JCM800 just to compare, and it made the mesa sound ridiculously puny. It's funny, it seems like all the "modern" tones that everyone's always searching for is coming from old gear.

for metal or the metalcore stuff that's popular these days, it's hard to beat a 5150...
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaboogie View Post
hey! I'm new to this business so forgive me if I'm going about this all wrong. Had a question i was hoping anyone might be able to shed some light on. I've got a mesa 400+ bass head. The SVT 8x10 i usually use is currently out of order (magnet ripped off the speaker entirely. Oops!). Wondering if running 400 tube watts thru a kustom 2x15 bass cab would destroy it? Or my head? Or what the ohms rating on that 2x15 would even be. Any help??
BGRA: Review of KUSTOM 2-15 BASS CABINET

I'd look for it to be 4 ohms if it's two 8s in parallel. Also it's rated at half the Boogie, and the Boogie Bass amps are well known to have a lot of electrolytic capacitors, so it's your call if it's safe to run with a Master volume no higher than about 3-ish. Knowing Murphy's Law, I wouldn't chance it.

As for the original topic, my 2 cents is, the modern tone you're after is probably more dependant on your technique, the tubes you use and the room you record in, than most other factors.

Everything is a factor though toward a guitar sound, the guitars body and necks wood and how it's seasoned (and then broken in), glued or bolted on, pickup coil(s) in series/parallel, strings and their love for the bridge, nut and fret materials, pick material, cables, stomp pedals and what they do to impedance even when they're bypassed, type of preamp, whats in the effects loop, what type (usually 6L6 or EL 34, configuration (class A or AB), brand of power tube (huge difference good and bad), output transformer saturation, speaker size(s) and brand (therefore) magnet/cone materials, cabinet wood type and whether sealed back, open or both. Microphone(s) room, room mics (if applicable) and whether printed to tape or digital.

The calluses on your hands, the humidity in the air and even whether your stompbox/wah pedals batteries are alkaline or lithium or the old kind (I like the old heavy duty kind). Everything matters! It's a beautiful art, and don't forget either extremely robust coffee or quality whiskey

p.s. there's a distinct Nu Metal sound, and I hope I never dial that in. It forces your song to sound like a 15 year-old novelty that never caught on.

@ jval's comment, I agree a Boogie can sound fizzy (I remember Mesa calling it "effervescent" LOL) but something all midrangy like an SG will tend to minimise it. The rectifier series I thought were worse (when you chugga chugga) so I never bought one, kept my MK 3 and still love it


-If you don't need to heat a farmhouse in the northern territories with your tube amp which dims the lights every time you power chord, just get a Pod or a SansAmp and be done with it LOL

Oh yeah before i go to bed, I have a great tip, check out Torres Engineering. TORRES CUSTOM AMPS<br>AMPLIFIER MODS They have some awesome little kits that are cheap and make outrageous changes to the guitar's output (amp kits too).

Last edited by JoeyM; 4th July 2009 at 08:04 AM.. Reason: Less fizz and more krang
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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SkunkWorks's Avatar
 

I've resisted the urge to jump on the Recto bandwagon for years until recently. Just picked up a Single Recto 50 and have gotten my best recording to date for modern stuff (modern rock, alternative, power pop, emo, nu metal, pop punk etc.). The fizziness some people talk about can be controlled by how you dial it and how you you EQ it in the mix and to be honest I haven't recorded ANY distorted medium/high gain amp that didn't need this done to it anyway (especially if using an SM57 on it), so its not specific to the Rectos. What the Rectos do have that's unique to that amp is a sort of aggressive grind that I've never heard in any other amp. Alot of top producers/engineers (yes, I've asked) are using these for the grind and blending with a Marshall for its mids/upper mids. I recently sold my Soldano Avenger 50 watt which was sort of a decent jack of all tones/master of none. Realized the tone I've been wanting comes from the headroom of a 100 watt amp and picked up a Peavey 6505 Plus until I can afford a Soldano SLO100 which is my dream amp. The Peavey has the tight grunty palm mutes which it shares with the SLO100 so I'm happy with that aspect of it but the top end is voiced in a way I'm not crazy about and you can't really dial it out or change its character that much with EQ when mixing. The Mesa has the top end I want so I'm looking forward to blending them when I get a chance and see how that turns out.

It's funny that I sold the Avenger, deciding that I didn't want the sound of a 50 watt amp, and then grabbed the Mesa Recto 50 watt but there's something about that version of the Recto that I like even better than the higher watt versions tone wise... it sounds more controlled with nicer mids. I know of an entire album done with it that Pete Thorn used to be in that I used to reference that made me really take note of it. Should have bought one a long time ago

By the way, the secret with the Rectos is to leave lots of mids in them... and then quad track them! (and don't use gobs of gain... when you double or quad track the medium to high gain amps they don't need a ton of distortion in a mix. And contrary to what lots of guys will tell you, don't overdo the master volume if you want the bottom to stay tight, and that's not just the Mesas)
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Here for the gear
 

oh jcm 800

Toured with a band for about 6 years and one of our guitar players played a dank little jcm 800. Thing sounds great. You can get excellent distortion and chug out of it. i suggest an 800. 900's are weird.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Personally HATE the Dual rec and bought a Fender Prosonic which in my opinion feel it destroys the Dual Rec. I usually blend that amp with my 85 JCM 800 50 watt and get the tone that I need.

I own a older 86/87 Boogie Studio Tube preamp that I kick to a SimulClass 2:90 and it is too much for the studio if I put it to the Bogner 4x12. Dual rec's to me are not easy to dial in or listen to.

Get a Bogner 101b.... that thing is SICK... However, the new Boogie Mark V is pretty badass.

Doc
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

I've been blending 70's modded Marshalls (Dave Friedman) with Diezels and a 2 channel dual rec and getting massive tones, better then most records I hear on the radio. Just bought a new VH4, that amps insane.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #43
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Christ theres more to Mesa than the bloody rectos. The Express has a completely different range of sounds and its great for what it is but you will never be happy until you go and audition a bunch of amps with your guitar and find the one you like the most.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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Orange rockerverb 50. More than enough quality sounding gain on tap, and never turns into a wild pig like a mesa or marshall can.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman View Post
Way back I sold my JCM800 for a melon and some onions;
if I'd only known how high the prices would become...

ruudman
Is that a metaphor for boobs and drugs?

Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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Guitarists should have amps. Studios shouldn't. Same with drums.
Old 4th July 2009 | Show parent
  #47
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticwritings View Post
Guitarists should have amps. Studios shouldn't. Same with drums.
I prefer recording in studios that have a nice selection of amps/drums/guitars/etc. You may not need it, but it's there if you do. Sometimes playing through a different amp/guitar will inspire great results.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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The three most popular amps in my studio are (In order)

1. Fryette (nee VHT) Deliverance 120 - screamingly versatile, from modern metal to mid gain blues to sparkley clean. Just a great sounding amp that records really well. Also what I use on my personal recordings.

2. Splawn Nitro - Marshall flavored, frakking HUGE sound. KsE is using these live now. For more vintage-y flavor, the Quickrod/Pro Mod is also a good choice.

3. Framus Cobra - for the big white noise Recto type sound but a bit more controlled and detailed. Not quite as thick, but not as loose, either. Blends well to add some scoopy goodness to surround a more midrange-y amp. A cool trick is to bury a big reverbed Cobra track beneath something like a Plexi or JMP for more perceived thump.

Over on Harmony Central you can find the builders of Titan Amps (knucklefux) and Peters Amplification (James Peters). I have a 200 watt Titan and a 100 watt Peters Custom Dual Channel. Both are really cool takes on high gain, and with Marshalls and Mesas approaching the 3K mark, these handwired custom amps are priced very competitively.

TITAN AMPS on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Peters Amplification
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

We just did a huge high gain amp demo in LA, biggest head to head comparison ever.

Music page of High Gain Amp Shootout 2009 - MP3 music page on SoundClick
YouTube - jameslugo's Channel

The 2 channel dual rec I have killed the Framus.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Addict
 

Fizz is not necessarily caused by an amp. So far the word on the (virtual) steet is that these are delivering on their promise.

Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Callaham ABR-1 bridge)

Callaham Strat and Tele bridges also enjoy an excellent reputation.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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saovi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
I find that using to amps at once helps achieve the tone.

The Mesa (higher gain, more fizz) will be the powerhouse of the tone giving it the most grind and silk, zip (meat)

The Marshall JCM800 (lower gain) will be the crack of the tone giving it the clean and richness (bone)


Combine the two amps at equal volumes, then adjust levels to taste. Take it real easy on your gain. There's way too much gain on these things for anything!! On my Mesa, my gain is at half way between 9 and 10 o'clock for live and in the studio I tame it down a bit to make it much more clear.

Get a signal splitter and hit both amps at once. You'll be rockin.


Be a polished guitarist too. You need to know how to attack your strings. High output pickups and heavy gauge strings.


Good luck

Jason
Actually your method sounds nice, I've tried it - works especially for live stuff. If you're willing to delay gratification a bit for the sake of production values, when recording you could probably try to record just once using just the mesa then record the same part separately using just the marshall - getting tight but slightly different performances. Pan each to taste. Seems to eliminate phasing problems when playing back the exact same performance twice. - also might give a wider perceived stereo field wall.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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It is all how you apply it.

I frequently use a '99 Dual Recto with EL34's (on vintage channel) and a Fender Prosonic in tandem.
The goal is to have one brighter amp, one darker one.

You could use two Dual Recto's if you wanted- one with 6L6's set to modern channel and one with EL34's set to Vintage.

Dual Recto's are very different amplifiers and take a while to pull a sound from.
You need to understand how the presence, mid and treble interact with the gain- it is very different form a traditional amp.

Both my Prosonic and Dual Recto have been modded- check out Voodoo mods.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #53
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uptheoctave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticwritings View Post
Guitarists should have amps. Studios shouldn't. Same with drums.
Plenty of people come to my room because of my amp collection.

Don't worry though, I'll be sure to get rid of it and work less.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Vogon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcha View Post
Fizz is not necessarily caused by an amp. So far the word on the (virtual) steet is that these are delivering on their promise.

Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Callaham ABR-1 bridge)

Callaham Strat and Tele bridges also enjoy an excellent reputation.
Great quality stuff. It can make a difference, though I found it was slight when I experimented. But it is just a difference, not an automatic improvement - that would depend on the wood, and your taste.
Blackmore et-al actually prefered the mazak (pot metal) and cast junk found on the 70's CBS strats...

But these guys are talking high (mostly preamp-) gain amps, clipping from these, would hardly be competing with a bridge, I would think - if a properly set-up "regular" bridge *can* "fizz" on it's own.

I agree with keeping the mids up on the dual-recs, one can get way too carried away scooping them.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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Hammer Mark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticwritings View Post
Guitarists should have amps. Studios shouldn't. Same with drums.
As long as players continue to use crap equipment, studios will have to compensate with a collection of quality stuff that they can maintain/tune properly.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Mark View Post
As long as players continue to use crap equipment, studios will have to compensate with a collection of quality stuff that they can maintain/tune properly.
Agreed, especially now when you have to give them something that can't use in their bedroom with an MBox.

Listen to the clip I posted in a totally irrelevant thread. Les paul with an Oragne Rackerverb 2x12 combo. 3 mics on the cab make this smoke.

Getting loudness by just slamming the 2-track in a 32-bit DAW . . .
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by natpub View Post
I remain happy with my Triaxis/Stereo 2/90 rig.


Yes, with good tubes the Triaxis is awesome, I love mine, so many great tones, incredibly versatile. I've found ever since I got mine, new amps keep coming out, and none of them really interest me. The Dual Recto head's tones are pretty cool, but I can come pretty close to them with the Tri. I'm not a huge fan of the Mesa Recto cab tone, though, I've definitely heard other cabs that sound a lot sweeter to my ears.
Old 5th July 2009
  #58
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerdude View Post
What are THEE guitar amps to have for getting that 'modern' rock tone. I know opinions can vary and the creativity and uniqueness of the tone really comes from trying a bunch of different amps and blending some cool **** together... so essentially anything can work.

My question is more like... where is a good place to start in general. I've heard alot of guys talk about blending the Dual Rec sound with a JCM 800. I have got some decent rock tones with similar combinations.... Mesa and Marshall.

I want to buy some stuff.... maybe 2 setups to have here that rock guitar guys can use to replace or compliment there own rig while recording.

So... where should i start?

Oh.... are people really using PODS on rock records?
I don't mesa with the boogie or the 800 anymore after many many years, I have been switched to the Fender Supersonic and couldn't been be happier. I would take a Plexi someday again.
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
Agreed, especially now when you have to give them something that can't use in their bedroom with an MBox.

Listen to the clip I posted in a totally irrelevant thread. Les paul with an Oragne Rackerverb 2x12 combo. 3 mics on the cab make this smoke.

Getting loudness by just slamming the 2-track in a 32-bit DAW . . .
The orange is the best amp I ever owned. I LOVE the tone out of this thing, and 3 mics give options at mixdown. Its sad 300 bucks worth of gear will not produce this.
Les Paul Supreme: 3400 bucks. Orange rockerverb 50: 1700. 3 cheap mics: 500 bucks. Vintech: 1800 with power supply. Apogee rosetta 200: 1800 bucks. Interface: 700 bucks. PTMP: 150. Without cables, there is a 10,000 dollar investment in the signal chain. One thing for sure, this is NOT a game for the broke or unemployed!
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
I don't mesa with the boogie or the 800 anymore after many many years, I have been switched to the Fender Supersonic and couldn't been be happier. I would take a Plexi someday.
I really like that fender, on my wish list of amps for sure. Even the plug version sounds good!
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