The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Volume Automation Technique? Control Surfaces
Old 17th February 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Volume Automation Technique?

im getting to the point where volume automation on basically every track is a must for me to feel pleased with a mix. whether it's overall, over the course of the song, specific corrections for individual recordings, or the all important vocal track, automation is my current focus in the quest to learn everything i can about mixing.

so i want to know what you all have to say about it. if you're doing itb, (as i am) do you like using a mouse or a trackball, or something else? also, im sure a lot of otb technique would translate- im trying to wrap my head around the uses of different types of automation; what are the applications of touch vs. latch, etc.?

one thing i've been experimenting with is using the pitch wheel on my keyboard; i like it because i can set the base volume at it's midpoint, bump up where i need to and it will always return to exactly where i started.

what do you think, sirs?
Old 17th February 2009
  #2
Clever trick, using the autoreturn pitch wheel for volume automation input!
Old 17th February 2009
  #3
A concept I've been thinking about a lot lately, which I should suggest on the SONAR forum to try to get them to implement is, is that of 'master envelopes'.

So you could create a small set of master envelopes, and then you can create envelopes on tracks and busses whose movements represent movement relative to a given master envelope, with various relationships being available, e.g. linear, by divisor, by multiplier, etc... and any of those being able to be inversed.

This way, you could create envelopes of the sort that you always do, which follow the sections of the song and bring them up and down and build the dynamics. And instead of effectively replicating that over and over, you could create slave envelopes that follow that masters in some way. Then, any adjustment to the master automatically adjusts all other envelopes slaved to it.

You could still have one-off envelopes of course, but they could effectively be implemented as linear offset slaved to a magic, flat master envelope. And if you want an envelope that is a direct reflection of the a master, it would just a flat linear offset envelope, and moving the whole thing up or down would adjust the magnitude of its offset from the master.

I think that would be immensely useful for automation purposes, though it would take a little thought to work out a solid workflow based on them. But, once you did, you could very quickly set up automation.
Old 18th February 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Old Goat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
A concept I've been thinking about a lot lately, which I should suggest on the SONAR forum to try to get them to implement is, is that of 'master envelopes'.

So you could create a small set of master envelopes, and then you can create envelopes on tracks and busses whose movements represent movement relative to a given master envelope, with various relationships being available, e.g. linear, by divisor, by multiplier, etc... and any of those being able to be inversed.

This way, you could create envelopes of the sort that you always do, which follow the sections of the song and bring them up and down and build the dynamics. And instead of effectively replicating that over and over, you could create slave envelopes that follow that masters in some way. Then, any adjustment to the master automatically adjusts all other envelopes slaved to it.

You could still have one-off envelopes of course, but they could effectively be implemented as linear offset slaved to a magic, flat master envelope. And if you want an envelope that is a direct reflection of the a master, it would just a flat linear offset envelope, and moving the whole thing up or down would adjust the magnitude of its offset from the master.

I think that would be immensely useful for automation purposes, though it would take a little thought to work out a solid workflow based on them. But, once you did, you could very quickly set up automation.
That's a good idea! Would save a lot of work. I don't generally have a lot of tracks, but it still takes time to do the envelopes and tweak them, even with copy/paste.
Old 18th February 2009
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
A concept I've been thinking about a lot lately, which I should suggest on the SONAR forum to try to get them to implement is, is that of 'master envelopes'.

So you could create a small set of master envelopes, and then you can create envelopes on tracks and busses whose movements represent movement relative to a given master envelope, with various relationships being available, e.g. linear, by divisor, by multiplier, etc... and any of those being able to be inversed.

This way, you could create envelopes of the sort that you always do, which follow the sections of the song and bring them up and down and build the dynamics. And instead of effectively replicating that over and over, you could create slave envelopes that follow that masters in some way. Then, any adjustment to the master automatically adjusts all other envelopes slaved to it.

You could still have one-off envelopes of course, but they could effectively be implemented as linear offset slaved to a magic, flat master envelope. And if you want an envelope that is a direct reflection of the a master, it would just a flat linear offset envelope, and moving the whole thing up or down would adjust the magnitude of its offset from the master.

I think that would be immensely useful for automation purposes, though it would take a little thought to work out a solid workflow based on them. But, once you did, you could very quickly set up automation.
Someone's been pondering object hierarchies again...


I just slap a compressor/limiter across the output buss and let nature take its course. heh
Old 18th February 2009
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
eskatonic's Avatar
 

very cool idea using the keyboard mod wheel. going to try it out tonight. should be pretty easy to assign that functionality to the mod wheel in logic.
Old 18th February 2009
  #7
Gear Nut
 

thanks, i got the idea from looking at old mix desks, where the faders were levers, kinda looked like that.

what about touch versus latch mode? i've read the definitions, but im still a little unclear. i guess im looking for practical applications.
Old 18th February 2009
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by erich View Post
thanks, i got the idea from looking at old mix desks, where the faders were levers, kinda looked like that.

what about touch versus latch mode? i've read the definitions, but im still a little unclear. i guess im looking for practical applications.
Touch mode will render your pitch wheel trick useless...

In touch mode, when you move the fader it writes automation.. as soon as u let go of the fader (ie, unclick the mouse) it will jump back to it's original (last) position.

With latch, when you let go of the fader, it will continue to write new automation data -- at whatever level you left the fader.

I do most stuff by mouse (drawn in) and have a LOT to learn and practise about automation.. but the touch mode (I use Logic) is super useful to me. I guess it is the equivalent of "riding the faders"?
Old 18th February 2009
  #9
Gear Addict
 

I just bought a bcf2000 so I could try riding some faders. Haven't done too much with it yet, but I'm impressed with how easy it was to set up with the Mackie emulation in reaper. I was envisioning spending hours mapping midi CCs & NRPNs to the faders et al, but with the out of the box presets, it's all done
Old 18th February 2009
  #10
Well, I posted my idea on the SONAR forum and it didn't get a single comment and only a handful of views even. So obviously no one there gives a crap about it :-) It's tough being so far ahead of your time, man.
Old 18th February 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 

Use a DAW controller such as the Smart AV Tango...
Old 5th March 2009
  #12
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

@ Dean,
I'm a Sonar user sludging through the process of automating 20+ tracks right now - and I think your idea is GREAT! I was even considering reposting it over at cakewalk to see their reaction - but I see you've already done that.

Oh well. It'll be the flagship feature for V12 I guess.
Old 5th March 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Well, I posted my idea on the SONAR forum and it didn't get a single comment and only a handful of views even. So obviously no one there gives a crap about it :-) It's tough being so far ahead of your time, man.
"Smart" envelopes. I like it.

When you have 15 tracks, and at the breaks you know that 7 effects need to be smoothed down, and 8 need to be boosted by the same amount or even by a ratio of another. I adjust the master envelope and program the parameters to auto adjust the others based on my settings. Kinda like EQ autogain.

I thinkk that is way better than zooming in and out on various tracks trying to make sure your fades occur at the same time.

I wonder if Project Logical Editor can be set up to do this.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Hope209 / Music Computers
17
larrygates / Rap + Hip Hop Engineering and Production
45
drewharris / Music Computers
4
CommunityMart / Music Computers
4
Ruphus / Music Computers
2

Forum Jump
Forum Jump