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Ribbon microphones for overheads
Old 28th June 2005
  #1
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SLy_drums's Avatar
 

Ribbon microphones for overheads

Hi there !

After having been interested into Daniel Bergstrand's (In Flames, Meshuggah, Darkane, Soilwork, Shovel, Strapping Young Lad, Aqme studio sound engineer and producer) gear by looking to the studio pics on the bands websites, i noticed that he uses ribbon mics for overheads, as you can see here :



What are those mics ??

They look comparable to the new APEX 210 ribbon mics but I think those are not.

I use AKG C414 around my drums, running into a Mindprint DTC, and it sounds veryyyyyy good.
Can ribbon mics bring something "different" to the cymbal sound ??

Thanks!
Old 28th June 2005
  #2
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
Royers everyday!

I could be wrong, but they look like the new NADY ribbon mics.
Have not used them so I can't comment on those particular models.
But I have used the Royer SF-12 stereo ribbon as an overhead mic on every session I have done for the last few years, and I can tell you that is it fabulous!

As a matter of fact, I will be using it today again for basic tracking.

The ribbon makes the entire kit sound wonderful, and there is no harshness whatsoever from the cymbals. Smoooooth........
And it really can take a lot of EQ'ing in the mix with no bad artifacts.
I've also used the Coles 4038, with great results, but nothing captures the drums set as nicely as does the Royers.
But that's only me...
Paul
Old 28th June 2005
  #3
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orange's Avatar
 

yes...they look like the nady ribbon to me.

also sold as and Apex or T-bone plus probably other makes as well. The different badges also mean slightly different grills.

I've got a couple of the T-bones - haven't used them as overheads but love them on acoustic.

si
Old 28th June 2005
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
There's entirely too many mics on that kit! I count six on 'overheads' which is 4 or 5 mics too many for that application IMHO. But hey...whatever's working right? LOL

In general ribbon mics have a smoother, more natural high frequency response then condensor mics. You can get some smooth top without getting grainy or hard sounding, and since ribbon mics are inherently figure 8 you'll get a bit more ambient room tone which, if your in a decent room usually makes the kit sound more natural.
Old 28th June 2005
  #5
C/G
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The black one looks like an Oktava ML-52 or the new Electro Harmonix ribbon which is basically the same thing.
Old 28th June 2005
  #6
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The black one is not an ML52. They have a different grille and more rounded top. In general, ribbons on overheads is a much smoother sound with more detail in the midrange and bottom from the drums as compared to a condensor.
Old 28th June 2005
  #7
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GP_Hawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
There's entirely too many mics on that kit! I count six on 'overheads' which is 4 or 5 mics too many for that application IMHO. But hey...whatever's working right? LOL

In general ribbon mics have a smoother, more natural high frequency response then condensor mics. You can get some smooth top without getting grainy or hard sounding, and since ribbon mics are inherently figure 8 you'll get a bit more ambient room tone which, if your in a decent room usually makes the kit sound more natural.
I agree...lotta OH's there, could this be an attempt at capturing for surround
Old 28th June 2005
  #8
Yep to many over heads for my taste but to each his own.

I have seen guys do this before it looks like he is trying to mic each cymbal like you would do with each drum, I have never liked the result much but YMMV.

If you are close micing cymbals like this guy is doing then yes I would strongly suggest a ribbon to smooth them out a bit but I would not recommend this approach to get a drum sound. On the other hand it could work just great for this kit/song/drummer/room so what do I know.

I have a pair of the Nady ribbons (different name badge on mine but they all come from the same manufacturer in China). My "Nady" ribbons are dark, not something I would use on over heads but they are killer for room mics....

YMMV (again).
Old 28th June 2005
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher
The black one looks like an Oktava ML-52 or the new Electro Harmonix ribbon which is basically the same thing.

it's the mkl2500 oktava's guitar center tube mic.
Old 28th June 2005
  #10
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.
Old 28th June 2005
  #11
Gear Nut
 

I had the same thought. And also, being that ribon mics inherently fragile, those look to be setup a bit too close within striking distance of the drummer...
Old 28th June 2005
  #12
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.
I think big honkin' palm muted guitars would be the problem at super high decibals, cause those can throw literally a freakin' gust of air out...not the cymbal swish though.

I'm typically much further out though with the ribbon.

War
Old 28th June 2005
  #13
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Curtis Franklin's Avatar
 

i dont think he is going for "overheads" it seems there are so many, because they are cymbal mics. never having used ribbons my theory is that ribbons have some property that reject the other things going on the kit. also a user commented that they tend to work well being drastically eqed. i do this sometimes when i am isolating my cymbals for loopig work. what are your guys's thoughts.
Old 28th June 2005
  #14
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SLy_drums's Avatar
 

All that is very interessant !

Daniel Bergstrand is used to be called as an "experimenting man", and each time the drums sound very good, especially cymbals ! He doesn't use the same mics each time he records a drummer, but he always uses "cymbal mics".
The DDRUM trigger on the snare is not there to trigger the shell, but to make the snare noise gate working.
Old 28th June 2005
  #15
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuntz
The black one is not an ML52. They have a different grille and more rounded top. In general, ribbons on overheads is a much smoother sound with more detail in the midrange and bottom from the drums as compared to a condensor.
You are correct sir, my bad. I did not look at the grille close enough. That one has mesh and not the slots like the Oktava. thumbsup At least I got the brand name right.
Old 28th June 2005
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Ya know...since ribbon mics don't like blasts of moving air, I gotta wonder about putting ribbon mics that close to cymbals since they tend to displace and move a lot of air when struck.
at less than $200 each he probably doesn't care. blow it up and buy another. thumbsup
Old 28th June 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Looks to me like he's deliberately only mic'ing the cymbals up, and won't have a conventional o/h with the whole kit in it, looking at the angles, and where the toms/snare would project......

My guess is that he high-pass'd all those cymbal mic's well above 1k.....but that's allot of phasey-room getting into the back of all those mics!

Andy
Old 29th June 2005
  #18
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SLy_drums's Avatar
 

I have an other pic of the In Flames drum session, I wonder what mic preamps Bergstrand uses (we can easily see a DTC).
Look at the pic :



What are those green boxes at the center of the pic ? Are they preamps ?
Old 29th June 2005
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
aevan's Avatar
 

Could be an Echoplex EP2 - a tape delay. The one underneath looks like a Roland space echo, so I'm only puttin 2 and 2 together.
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