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What pre should I get: Daking or API
Old 26th June 2005
  #1
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insomnio's Avatar
 

What pre should I get: Daking or API

Hello:
I’m going to Spain next month to record the guitars and cajón for a flamenco fusion production I’m beginning. I have a 737sp and a Presonus MP20 as mic pres right now (I had an API lunch box…damn!...please don’t ask). I’ve been thinking in selling them and getting a Daking Mic-Pre IV (four channels) or two API 312 channels (Brent Averill’s).

My budget will be $2000 top (nothing more). My needs: mainly lots of percussion and nylon guitars. Of course I’ll need to record the rest of the project with it as well (bass, voices, brass, etc).

The problem:
To sell or not to sell
Then, if I sell, what would soothe my needs better?

Insomnio
Old 26th June 2005
  #2
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audioez's Avatar
 

what kind've hamburger should I have?

never tried the daking, sorry I couldn't help myself...sounds like a debate between Wendy's and Carl's Jr
Old 26th June 2005
  #3
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Ok, let me clarify. I haven't try Dakings before. So this is for those who, having tried both, think that for the money and for my needs, one is a better choice than the other. ...also for those who, having more experience than me, don't think that I should sell.

I'm unable to decide, that's it!

I

Last edited by insomnio; 26th June 2005 at 09:46 PM.. Reason: fixing
Old 26th June 2005
  #4
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RoundBadge's Avatar
I have the Dakings and had an API { lunchbox }for while and still use API all the time
Both sound great ,you can't go wrong.I use em together all the time
the Dakings have tons of gain and headroom.good for if you plan on using ribbons down the road.Both have punch.
Api's sometimes need the pad on loud stuff[almost always on kick/snare.
Dakings will give you 4 ch's ,good for when you do other stuff ,drums etc
the API will give 2[for your money]
and I wouldn't hesitate for a heartbeat to sell the 737,presonus stuff
I don't feel the avalon stuff[bland and completely overrated IMO]at all for what I do ..rock mostly .when its the last thing in the rack i use em for non essentials [toms ,hi hat etc]
and dfegad Presonus pres.. aren't even worthy paper weights.****e
thje Daking might be an easier thing to transport[1 ru I think] but they both sound great on acoustic stuff
have fun stike
Old 26th June 2005
  #5
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insomnio's Avatar
 

Thanks Round. That's exactly what I was looking for.
Insomnio
Old 26th June 2005
  #6
TML
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I agree with Roundbadge...have both 312's and daking's....both are great......ditto on the pad for the API's. Having dealt with both company's...it's a toss up.....Brent tech sopport is killer....Geoff will talk with you about all kinds of studio recording stuff.....both really nice guys.......can't go wrong......
Tim
Old 26th June 2005
  #7
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insomnio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TML
I agree with Roundbadge...have both 312's and daking's....both are great......ditto on the pad for the API's. Having dealt with both company's...it's a toss up.....Brent tech sopport is killer....Geoff will talk with you about all kinds of studio recording stuff.....both really nice guys.......can't go wrong......
Tim
Thanks.
I know how an API sounds: nice punch, good for percussion, guitars, vox etc. But how do you describe/compare Dakings?
I
Old 27th June 2005
  #8
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I can comment on api 3124 early nineties version, and the current api512c.

3124 gets used on drums when I mix for bands for live tv(this helps when you mix on a venice(always kick, snare, front L, front R)
512c is a lot cleaner sounding IMO, and also has been used on tv broadcasts/studio but has become my project studio pre. It will work like a charm on anything that's related to rock, blah blah blah.

More Recently I've also used a pair 512c w/2 slot api rack on a remote church recording of some chamber(classical) music, very nice!!!

Yes, you'll have to use the -20db pads when the drummers use sticks, but that doesn't bother me as much as it seems to stir the pot with others here.
Old 27th June 2005
  #9
If you get the API's in a lunchbox make sure to strap a 1200ohm resistor on the output.

Totally different sound without it.
Old 27th June 2005
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
If you get the API's in a lunchbox make sure to strap a 1200ohm resistor on the output.

Totally different sound without it.

Would you explain?

I
Old 27th June 2005
  #11
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
Both Pre amps are great Either one!

I have, and have used both the Daking and the API for years...
As a matter of fact I have 24 of Geoffs original vertical pres (52270) and like them so much I had him build me a console!
You really can't go wrong with either.
Paul
Old 27th June 2005
  #12
Gear Nut
I have both the API's (3124) and the Daking preamps. I find myself reaching for the Dakings for more of the acoustic stuff, the API's for drums and el gtrs. There seems to be a bit more air and dimension using the Dakings. The API gives you a certain aggressive thickness, in a good way. I'd say if you are looking for more depth in your recording then Daking, if you are looking for a bit more roundness, API. Although, as stated by the others, neither pre is a slouch and you'll get fine results with either setup.
Old 27th June 2005
  #13
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is the resistor really needed. I have a 512c in a lunch box and I don't hear the need for it. What do you gain from using one?
Old 27th June 2005
  #14
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Oh yeah..I haven't used the Dakings..but API rock!
Old 27th June 2005
  #15
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insomnio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckj
I have both the API's (3124) and the Daking preamps. I find myself reaching for the Dakings for more of the acoustic stuff, the API's for drums and el gtrs. There seems to be a bit more air and dimension using the Dakings. The API gives you a certain aggressive thickness, in a good way. I'd say if you are looking for more depth in your recording then Daking, if you are looking for a bit more roundness, API. Although, as stated by the others, neither pre is a slouch and you'll get fine results with either setup.
Man, you're making me drool. If I only can hit the lotto...

I
Old 27th June 2005
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler
I have, and have used both the Daking and the API for years...
As a matter of fact I have 24 of Geoffs original vertical pres (52270) and like them so much I had him build me a console!
You really can't go wrong with either.
Paul
nice. i have 2 channels of the daking and love em. 24 tracks? run that straight to tape from a great live band. what's that sound homer makes when he sees a keg or chocolate cake?......

back on topic: my friend and "audio consultant" was here last week. he has both daking and api. his comment was that
1)he uses the daking for his lead vocals all the time.
2)the daking is more "in your face"
3)he loves the api for rock acoustic git and drums. and then the daking kind of takes center stage for the lead vocal.
4)he will not part with either.

make of that what you will.
Old 27th June 2005
  #17
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Thanks guys!
I made up my mind. Selling my eye pleaser 737 and the MP20 to buy a Daking IV. But I tell you, as soon as I get the money there will be an API 3214+ and an AMS 1073dpd in my studio, I give you all my Gearslutz word on that.

In this same thread I'll report my first experience with Dakings pres.
Untill then...

Insomnio
Old 27th June 2005
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
Would you explain?

I

Sure.

For the longest i could not understand why the modules in the console sounded so much better than when in the lunchbox.

The reason is the Api modules are used to seeing a different load when in the console.

Being loaded down differently affects the freq response.

In the console they are creamier and wider sounding.

In the lunch box they are thinner,brighter and a little mid foward.

This is the sonic characteristic i've seen a lot of people attach to API modules.

In talking with a number of people(including API) i've come to realize that the modules are used to seeing a different load on the output.

API recommends a 600ohm resistor.

I tried it and it wasn't as close to the sound of the console.

Again in doing research i ran into a conversation with John Klett and he said he normally sets them up with a 1200ohm resistor on the output.

Tried it and voila!!!

The closest sound to the console out of the lunchbox.

Its not exactly there but pretty close.

I suggest you try it and see for yourself.
Old 27th June 2005
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Sure.

For the longest i could not understand why the modules in the console sounded so much better than when in the lunchbox.

The closest sound to the console out of the lunchbox.

I suggest you try it and see for yourself.
What about the 312s pres?

I
Old 28th June 2005
  #20
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cletus's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=thethrillfactor]Sure.

Again in doing research i ran into a conversation with John Klett and he said he normally sets them up with a 1200ohm resistor on the output.

Tried it and voila!!!

The closest sound to the console out of the lunchbox.

Would you mind elaborating a little bit more as far as exactly how to do this mod? Do you just walk in to any electronics store and buy a 1200ohm resistor and solder it on or is it special ordered? I do apologize if the question sounds silly but I'm not the most experienced electronics guy. I am getting a lunchbox very soon though and would love to try this myself. Thanx!
PEACE!!!
Old 28th June 2005
  #21
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insomnio's Avatar
 

Lets see: buying a $2000 or more API, opening it and soldering something into it?


I
Old 28th June 2005
  #22
8070
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Daking.
Old 28th June 2005
  #23
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jpupo74's Avatar
The Big Shoot Out at the Audio Chorale

Jay Kahrs and friends post this a long time ago. I suggest you read it cause I know it would be of great help for you.

Search for:
"The Big Shoot Out at the Audio Chorale"


I have work with API 3124 from almost 2 years and I think it sounds great!
I wish I could try BAE API´s...

PUPO
Old 28th June 2005
  #24
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¡Gracias Pupo!

Results taken from:
The Big Shoot Out at the Audio Chorale

Geoff Daking 52270....................7+5+3+5+4= 24
Siemens/Telefunken V276...........7+1+6+2+4= 20
Audio Toys Inc., Pro6..................1+6+5= 12
API 3124.....................................4+2+ 4= 10
True Systems Precision8.............5+2= 7
OSA.......................................... ....1+4+2+1= 8
Shep SN8.....................................3+3+1 = 7

That makes me feel happy, happy, happy!

Insomnio
Old 28th June 2005
  #25
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
What about the 312s pres?

I
same deal..had it done on my old Averill rack.
Old 28th June 2005
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
Lets see: buying a $2000 or more API, opening it and soldering something into it?


I
Yep... your point is??




Joking with you... Yes it might seem strange but it sounds like an easy mod and I say that as a beginner electronics guy myself. Pretty easy mod and no cmpany has the corner on sonic goodness. If you can make the API pres sound better in a lunchbox then make them sound better. The goal is to sound good not to have pretty gear that could sound better right? If the goal was to have pretty gear that did not sound as good I would actualy own some Avalon stuff (no flames, I don't like anything they make, you might YMMV).

Anyway to the original poster, never used a Daking but API baby, API..

heh

You should check out this thread about Seventh Circle Audio pres. I just build 7 A12's (API clones) for about the price of 3 512's and the lunchbox. They sound really good.

A quote from our own Michael Wagner.

Quote:
We just got done tracking "Back In Black" with the band HYDROGYN for the workshop and as usual we did a lot of comparisons (mics, pres etc.). This time we had two full racks of SeventhCircleAudio pres (see picture). Those things kick ass. We had A12s, N72s, J99s and the new C84 (Millenia type pres). First off, all the pres sound very close to the ones they are modelled after (if that is the right expression).

We used the A12 on top and bottom tom (only one tom on this song), nice fat but tight sound, I like them better than my "very old" original APIs.

All together I think the SAC stuff is a great deal (my rack is ordered) and for the money you get a great variety of mic pres.
Old 28th June 2005
  #27
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wilcofan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Lets see: buying a $2000 or more API, opening it and soldering something into it?
I'm thinking you could just make a dedicated XLR patch cable with the 1200 ohm resistors soldered onto the pins of the female end. Same effect, right? Load it differently on the way to the next box or DAW. This seems to me a better solution anyways for the racks since then you can load only the last output of your lunchbox in case you were hitting a few API modules in a chain.

That's assuming only the final output needs the load, not every modules output along the chain. Even in that case you could make patch cables, designed to patch API modules to each other, with a load on each patch cable.

I also think the patch cable carrying the load is better since not all the gear you might hit after the API will need more resistance. Right?

Feel free to jump in here and set me straight...maybe you guys are talking about the pres only, not EQ's and compressors.
Old 28th June 2005
  #28
C/G
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[QUOTE=cletus]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Sure.

Again in doing research i ran into a conversation with John Klett and he said he normally sets them up with a 1200ohm resistor on the output.

Tried it and voila!!!

The closest sound to the console out of the lunchbox.

Would you mind elaborating a little bit more as far as exactly how to do this mod? Do you just walk in to any electronics store and buy a 1200ohm resistor and solder it on or is it special ordered? I do apologize if the question sounds silly but I'm not the most experienced electronics guy. I am getting a lunchbox very soon though and would love to try this myself. Thanx!
PEACE!!!
That is great to know, but why would'nt API just put in the 1200 ohm resistor at the factory from the get go? That is what does not make sense.
Old 28th June 2005
  #29
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Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
¡Gracias Pupo!

Results taken from:
The Big Shoot Out at the Audio Chorale

Geoff Daking 52270....................7+5+3+5+4= 24
Siemens/Telefunken V276...........7+1+6+2+4= 20
Audio Toys Inc., Pro6..................1+6+5= 12
API 3124.....................................4+2+ 4= 10
True Systems Precision8.............5+2= 7
OSA.......................................... ....1+4+2+1= 8
Shep SN8.....................................3+3+1 = 7

That makes me feel happy, happy, happy!
Ehhh...the problem with any shootout is if your not there and haven't heard the quality of the source or the context in which the whole thing was done...the final information is of little value. You can say anything you want to with statistics by only putting part of the story up. Plus you need to keep in mind what your record will sound like when you have 20-40 tracks of cutting everything through the same micamp. Meaning...what sounds good in isolation might not translate too well to a real record when sounds have to cut through everything else.

In that shootout the main source was acoustic guitar and vocal which are two things that IMHO, the Dakings handle pretty well and that puts them near the top of my list for those tasks. On the flip side there are a bunch of things that I don't like them on and I feel like overall they're better EQ's then preamps. As preamps...they're versatile enough to never sound horrible on anything and are sometimes amazingly cool for overheads, misc percussion like shakers or taking some wool off a vocal that's too beefy but there are too many things they don't do well on.

They don't have a solid or deep enough low-end to handle things like kick drum or bass guitar which was mighty apparent later in the day when we put some mics up on a drum kit. Electric guitars (with dynamic mics, ribbons are different) usually don't have enough beef to them for rhythm stuff for my tastes. They can sound great on a Leslie high rotor, but don't have enough weight in the low end to handle the low rotor, nor can they capture the true fundamental of a dejembe with any kind of authority.

So I dunno...as EQ's they're cool. As pre's the Dakings are ok IMHO. I'm glad I have a pair and they get a workout on every record I make, but if I had to pick a dedicated preamp, I'd look into API's or something else.
Old 28th June 2005
  #30
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[QUOTE=Colin Gaucher]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus

That is great to know, but why would'nt API just put in the 1200 ohm resistor at the factory from the get go? That is what does not make sense.
Good point there.
When you all say "it'll sound better", better than what? Doesn't it sound like an API without the resistor?


I
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