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intern getting dicked around by studio
Old 24th June 2005
  #31
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Either that or he listed 'carpenter/handyman' on his application.

It's funny that the studio industry gets away with conning potential engineers into cleaning toiliets. It's called a janitor people! Or a maid! Or a cleaning service! Whatever the rest of the world calls it. This just goes to show how out of touch people who work in the music business are.

Mariah Carey with the carpets being rolled around for her wherever she goes has got to take the cake though. I heard she pushed an engineer out of the way so she could get to the Studer. "What's wrong with you, can't this thing rewind any faster?"

I guess it's the glitter and the shiny lights and the thought of working with famous people that leads some people down this path. Happy scrubbing, b!#ches! I'd rather starve, or perhaps sell real estate.

That last part was a joke. Think Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.
Old 24th June 2005
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus
The first few weeks of working at this studio I did everything that had not been done by any intern for years. Painting the whole studio, fixing holes in the walls, installing new cieling tiles, spackling caulking,
I wouldn't trust a recording studio graduate with ANY OF THAT!

These guys must think you know your a** from a hole in the ground....

That's a positive sign!
Old 24th June 2005
  #33
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Whoa, what just happened to the post order? How did Jules post get to be after mine? Weird man.
Old 24th June 2005
  #34
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This may bumb you out but its also a cold hard reality. The attitude behind the studios regarding the interns is simple: "If you don't want to suck our cocks, fine, go ahead and leave because there is a line around the block of people who do." I have a friend who has worked on major albums from The Stones, Metallica, Ozzy, Seal (and the list goes on for as long as you want it to) and he still has NO money and has a VERY difficult time finding work. My suggestion is to start your own studio and develop your own client base. I'd suck those dicks for a little bit longer and see how it goes. If your still cleaning piss off the floors after a year, then I'd reconsider.....
Old 24th June 2005
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
midigod's Avatar
 

This is the nature of the business - everyone wants to be a part of it, but in reality, only a small percentage of those interested actually put up with other people's bull**** to do it. Doing "slave labor" is one of the ways that good people get weeded out.


I fixed your post for you.
Old 24th June 2005
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
midigod's Avatar
 

I just don't buy that the "life skills" portion should take up all the intern's time until some fairy godmother thinks they're ready to be in on a session. College is just as much of a learning institution as an internship, and I've never, ever heard of any college that makes their students clean the faculty toilets.

There are plenty of other tasks in my studio that I don't like doing, that actually have something to do with audio. If you don't trust an intern to do *any* audio tasks, you shouldn't have them there. Put 'em in a session and let 'em learn by guidance and fire. If they don't learn enough to be of more use in the next session, they leave. How hard is that?
Old 24th June 2005
  #37
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jpupo74's Avatar
Toilets

Hey,

I had a chance to work for two years in a Studio where the owner really wanted to help me with my career. I think I´ve been lucky. IMO, cleaning toilets may be a prerequisite if you want to MASTER THE ARTS OF CLEANING TOILET, but not if you want to MASTER THE ARTS OF RECORDING.

I´m not saying cleaning toilets is good or bad, but maybe you should find a place where, at least, ONE PERSON wants to really help you with, lets say, TIPS?

If I found a studio in Colombia to work, I am sure in the states U will find lots more.

Good Luck!
PUPO
Old 24th June 2005
  #38
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus
Yes I was very frustrated when I posted oringinally but am in the process of working it out with the engineers at work and I thank everyone who had the kind words of encouragement to hang in there. I know that one of these days I will be assisting on sessions it's only a matter of time.
Good on ya!!!

Going through the small tasks will build "life skills" and "attention to detail" skills. Does it suck? Hell yeah... but as David Bromberg most accurately stated "you've gotta suffer if you wanna sing the blues".

Going in with the right attitude is of paramount importance... seems to me like you're on the right road.

Best of luck with it... in a few years you may very well be quite adequately trained and ready to do your own gigs. Best of luck with it all!!
Old 24th June 2005
  #39
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neve1073's Avatar
 

Cletus, I don't know where you are interning, but if it's at major studio like record plant or fantasy (et al) you may have a different ride than if you were to intern at a smaller more humble studio. It'll probably be harder, but ultimately more prestigious if things work out. At a smaller working studio, you might be able to get the owner engineer to mentor and trust you more, faster.
Old 24th June 2005
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
FormulaReed's Avatar
 

I had the opposite problem: I wound up doing the work of a full blown engineer when I was not getting paid. I started interning at a studio, the first session that I did I assisted on a PT session but by the 3rd hour or so it was clear that I knew more about the system than any one at the studio. For about the next 4 months or so I was tracking most of the stuff that come in and wound up mixing a few projects too. The experience was great but I felt a little used and it was becoming clear that I was never going to get paid.

Only after I left to start my own studio was I promosed pay. I think that I got one day of pay and some monitors...
Old 25th June 2005
  #41
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Even if you do everything right, one bad scene can end it all. Case in point, I had a buddy who was working at Cherokee I believe it was. Some British band that thought they were the **** was in there. They kept referring to him as "wiper boy" first of all, then the lead singer was dancing on top of the console (Trident A Range I think it was), and then they broke the prized Neumann M49 that was used by Elton John and others. Knocked it over, hit the floor, broken.

So my buddy calls the studio owner or manager in the middle of the night to let him know what's going on. He got fired for that.

Studio intern is often a metaphor for "Here, eat another $#@! sandwich buddy".
Old 25th June 2005
  #42
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hociman's Avatar
 

First Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Feb 1982 - On my first day my boss asked me to get a bucket of soapy water - I reported to him with it - he said "go wash my car" (a tweaked out Porsche with a racing engine in it) I nearly tipped the bucket over him! I DESPISED him for it..Age 22 and having done a LOT of ****ty jobs, I realised that I actuall WANTED what was at the end of this initial stage so - I kept up with the job (toilet cleaning. vacuum cleaning, sandwich runs) and stayed there for 6 years ending up as one of the in-house engineers and enough clients to split with and sustain me as a freelancer working in the UK / Europe. I got $50 per week.
May 2000 - On my first day, the owner asked me to make a 230V plug for his remote truck's electricity. I spent most of the day making that plug because I had never made one like it before and I wanted to do it properly (imagine getting zapped
stike by 230V). I was not happy. 6 weeks later, I was the only assistant on a session with John Sebastian, Levon Helm, and Garth Hudson. Enough said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Tip for cletus (the creator of this thread)

If they stick you on the desk answering the phones ask for (or go get) some equipment manuals and read those inbetween calls.. Look "keen".. (dont be seen to leave these manuals out where a client could walk off with one though...)
What Jules said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdunn
Mariah Carey with the carpets being rolled around for her wherever she goes has got to take the cake though. I heard she pushed an engineer out of the way so she could get to the Studer. "What's wrong with you, can't this thing rewind any faster?"
I heard that an assistant was fired from a studio because he was in the room adjacent to the one Mariah was in at the time. Talk about needing space!

Last edited by hociman; 25th June 2005 at 05:26 AM.. Reason: consolidation of replies
Old 25th June 2005
  #43
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Someone in LA is looking for a paid Intern right now ... and no one is jumping.

Ross Hogarth needs someone too, no pay, also in LA.
Old 25th June 2005
  #44
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Believe me now, or believe me later, having a clean bathroom will not hurt your business. Mastering the art of keeping your bathroom clean is much better than having the reputation of having the stinkiest bathroom in town.
Com'on man!

Who's saying that we don't need a clean bathroom! We're talking about what's more important than that for an internship!

He's happy doing all the internship prerequisites! However, he felt that he doesn't get enough in return, just yet.
Old 25th June 2005
  #45
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catfish11's Avatar
 

i don't really know that much about studios, i just built and own one,

however i know business, i found it interesting that no one asked weather you were good at what you do, but from my reading of your second post it would seem you are an asset,

and that is what it is really what it is all about, you need to make yourself valuable, an asset

secondly, you need to make sure the right people know you are an asset

and most importantly you need to show initiative
get work, learn, try and help people around without being asked

this all common sense stuff, but many people don't have much of that, and common sense is a very good asset

lastly, you need to determine what is driving your coworkers/bosses/engineers
no one here can asertain weather you will simply be aken advantage of, only you can determine that

these are life skills that will help no mater what

and do it all with a smile on your face
unless they are deathmetal/satan types
then do it with a scowl
but remember........do it right
Old 25th June 2005
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Wax on, wax off.

I find that flushing the toilet before squirting the blue toilet cleaner liquid in there helps. Let it sit for a few minutes, then scrub and flush again. Sometimes I flush twice the second time. Oh, I think some of this is on the instructions!

"Aww man, I just flushed the Pro Tools manual down the toilet!"

"That must have been one hell of a dump."

Damn, I wish I had a working console right now. I'd mix something instead of clowning with people's threads.


Old 25th June 2005
  #47
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I'm actually doing sort of two internships right now...one at a local recording studio and one at a mastering studio. I spend more time at the mastering studio. I have to say that my experience has been great so far. Both of the guys have really taken the time to show me the ropes. These are smaller type studios, so like someone already mentioned that may make a difference. If you're interning at a larger studio you may not have the opportunity to get to know the guys as well.

So far the only non audio things I've had to do are running a few little errands for supplies and mailing some things.

I think it's important that you sit down with the guy and claify the situation. When I started my internship a few things were very clear:

1) These guys do not NEED interns. Sure it helps them out a little, but they're mostly doing it because they're cool guys and they're interested in educating people like me.

2) I would not be getting paid. I knew this from the very beginning, and am completely fine with it. The knowledge I'm getting is much more valuable than a few bucks.

3) I would actually being doing audio-related stuff. I tried to demonstrate to these guys that I was serious about getting into recording and that I had a foundation of knowledge. Consequently they took me seriously.

I hope your situation changes, but if having a talk with the guy doesn't fix anything, then I would say that you should use this experience to help you get an internship somewhere else.

If anyone wants to read more about my experiences, I've got a thread going over at Homerecording.com. http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=157529
Old 25th June 2005
  #48
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Kaz,

Great reply!
Congrats with the internship!

You definitely should do a blog with your internship. Many will read it!
Old 25th June 2005
  #49
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At the studio I work out of the interns are given a set lifespan. I don't exactly how long, but about a month or two, then they are done. I think it generally meets school requirements for them. But basically it is just simply not possible to hire every intern no matter how hard they work. They are also made fully aware beforehand what the tasts will be and that there is no chance whatsoever of them setting foot in the studio itself while clients are present. It's basically cleaning, food runs, and moving cars in the parkinglot. After the two months they are let go unless there happens to be a position open. If so, then they will be hired as a runner. But obviously the runners aren't quiting every day, they last for long periods of time. They all started as interns, and some of them have moved onto assisting and engineering (IOW they are still runners but assist som sessions when needed and engineer some sessions when needed, and are paid according to the job task). One is even now the assistant manager full time.

It really builds character for interns and the idea is that it lets them first see how the business is run before they get into the studio. They get to see the affects on a client if the food order is screwed up, etc etc. It also weeds out the egos. The ones that are now engineering were the ones that were glad to just be a part and don't complain when they have to go back to running fter engineering. They know it willpay off.

Unfortunately though the schools are just pumping out way too many interns for them all to be able to get their hands dirty in the studio. And the level of clients at the facility don't want their session as a learning tool, especially when there are people in the session who are already hired to do everything that needs to be done.

It can go either way. Start at a big studio and it will take longer to get somewhere. Or start at a small studio and you will get somewhere quicker, but it won't be as far.And like someone said there is a difference between paying dues and abuse.
Old 25th June 2005
  #50
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
The world don't me anything and I don't owe the world free educational services to every kid out there who's too lazy to do his homework... Is there a law somewhere that says once I buy so much gear, I have to let interns come into my studio and use it ?????????????Plus I have to give lessons on how to use it ??????

mistah dj,

i don't know a damn thing about you, so i can do nothing here but make educated guesses. i may be way off base, if so please forgive me, i'm just a guy typing words into the ethers.

i'll bet that if you look back, quietly and honestly, over the course of your life, you will find that the world that doesn't owe you anything nevertheless provided you with a continuous stream of people who helped you, encouraged you, supported you, befriended you, gifted you, and loved you... without needing to be asked, for no other reason than that it was good to do so, and asking nothing in return. and without all of that, you would not be who you are, or have what you have.

so while it's true, you don't owe the world free educational services, or anything else, you might find that giving it away has long term rewards for yourself and everyone that you can't even begin to fathom. i believe we have all been given more gifts, for free, than we could ever repay in a lifetime even if we tried, not the least of which is the gift that gave us two lungs and a brain and this stupifying beautiful thing called music... life. i heartily recommend that everyone look for every possible way to give that back.

now if you'll excuse me, i apparently have some shirts to tie-dye.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 25th June 2005
  #51
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Roland's Avatar
One month in and they are already letting you handle microphones? I don't think this is bad. To alow someone to actually intteract with clients in a recording session, even if it is running for their sandwiches or fetching their coffee is a risk to the session. I've seen difficult situations arise from people just doing this, let alone plunging people headlong into session situations.

After spending a few months working in a facility and seeing how the tape operator/engineer runs the machine then being allowed to do this, to me this is usual form. The clients don't give a damn if you have only been their two weeks or 2 years, if you are doing the punches on a major session they want perfection, not an improver. Watching someone else do it every day for a few months, you will be surprised how much you learn.

Listening to the things that get talked about on a session, what gets said, and possibly more importantly what doesn't teaches you a lot about handling musicians, a vital skill when being in the room. Even being in the room and hearing. seeing the process is a priviledge.

After 25 years an engineer, I still love the opportunity to sit in a room with a great engineer or producer to see their way of working, because their is always something new I can learn, even if it is how not to do something. Unfortunately these days those opportunities are fewer and further between.

For me I would stick with it and see how things are after 6 months. If by that time you haven't aquired new levels of involvement then possibly look to move somewhere else. Remember that it isn't sitting their pushing the buttons that makes you learn, just watching other good people do things day in and day out teaches you more than you can possibly imagine.


Regards to all


Roland
Old 25th June 2005
  #52
Gear Addict
 
cletus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neve1073
Cletus, I don't know where you are interning, but if it's at major studio like record plant or fantasy (et al) you may have a different ride than if you were to intern at a smaller more humble studio. It'll probably be harder, but ultimately more prestigious if things work out. At a smaller working studio, you might be able to get the owner engineer to mentor and trust you more, faster.
I purposely ommited the studio name and location. I'm not trying to burn any bridges here with the people I work with nor do I want anyone here to think badly of anyone else. I indeed have thought about checking out smaller studios around the bay area I may look into it further. I have been in touch with some friends who worked as an intern at the same place who are now recording and producing music for a living. They said that ten years ago when they interned it was invaluable to their education. Being aware of the situation now however they said that they probably wouldn't have learned as much if they were just starting out at the studio. The place has become much more disorganized since its glory days. People are just trying to keep the doors open and the bills paid I completely understand and genuinely like these guys. From a business perspective though the deal's a little shady. They haven't had a major artist in their for 5 years just not doing that much rock music more local artist acoustic stuff. I don't care about what kind of music they are recording though just want to learn with and wherever I can. Did I mention I'm completely [email protected]!#%&*^ nuts so that makes me a great candidate to try to get into a business thats grasses are full of snakes!
PEACE
Old 25th June 2005
  #53
Gear Addict
 
cletus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Ya right. Nothing stopping the kid from buying his own stuff, doing his homework, doing some digging and reading on the internet. There's tons of free info available. Ever been to a libary and open a few books ????? Geez there's even free music recording & editing programs out there to use on the computer. So for the cost of a cheap mic and a computer, you can have your own little studio in no time.

You wanna learn about recording, it's out there. If you think you own the studio because you painted a couple of walls, you got another thing coming.
You're on fire bro. I never intened anyone to get heated over this whole thing. As that old saying goes: Assumption makes an ass out of you and I. I don't need to get started in a gear shootout with you so I'm not going to go down the list of what I have and what I don't. Lets just suffice to say that I have enough gear, knowledge, and musicianship to make beautiful recordings at home. Thats not the point here though. I read over and over again how succesful engineers like yourself are fed up with people who go out, buy an mbox and start making half assed demos for themselves and their friends. This has been a large part of the reason for business being slow these days. Everyone thinks they can do it themselves and just as good as you yourelf could. Thats bull-ish and I know it as well as you do. There is a certain quality about an experienced engineer that digidesign or any other company can't emulate. I know there are alot of kids fresh out of recording school who think they are now owed a seated in front of the mixing board and should have your job simply because they dished out the dough and got a certificate. Thats not me though. I'm doing it old school and really going for it. Don't be mad at some one trying to elevate above the title "home recordist". Everyone deserves a shot a their dreams even if that means more competition for you one day. I'm doing this no matter how many obstacles I have to overcome. It's my winning determination and acceptance of nothing less that has carried me this far and it's the reason why I am already a success.
PEACE
Old 25th June 2005
  #54
Gear Addict
 
cletus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
You come on the forum looking for comments, and I make some and now I'M an ass ??? Go screw yourself, jerk !!!!!!!!! I wouldn't hire you to pick up dog crap.
I love you too!
Old 25th June 2005
  #55
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
You come on the forum looking for comments, and I make some and now I'M an ass ??? Go screw yourself, jerk !!!!!!!!! I wouldn't hire you to pick up dog crap.
It's your attitude, like you show now again. It's not appreciated, it doesn't help anybody.
Old 25th June 2005
  #56
Lives for gear
 

You misrepresent yourself as newbie....sounds like one of Walter's tricks.....

I'm out
Old 25th June 2005
  #57
Gear Addict
 
cletus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM
It's your attitude, like you show now again. It's not appreciated, it doesn't help anybody.
Thanks for having my back on this one DrDeltaM. I meant no disrespect to Mr.Wayne. My comment was a general one and was misinterpreted. Sincerely just trying to get constructive advice which I have gotten from other posts on this thread thanx again!
PEACE!!!
Old 25th June 2005
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne

I'm out

Thank You!

Please don't come back! tutt
Old 25th June 2005
  #59
Lives for gear
 

djwayne - you are sadly mistaken if you think buying some recording software and a mic pre/converter combo is even a remotely similar experience to being at a place such as The Plant.



dfegad off eh!
Old 26th June 2005
  #60
Lives for gear
 

oh boy, real "pro's".......now I remember why I decided to build my home studio.

fuuck No regrets. fuuck
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