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Piracy statistics
Old 23rd June 2005
  #1
Piracy statistics

Group: Music Piracy a $4.6B Business

People look at music CDs in the center of Madrid, Thursday, June 23, 2005. The annual report of the London-based International Federation of Phonographic Industries, presented Thursday, states that one of every three musical discs sold in the world last year was pirated with Spain as Europe's worst culprit when it comes to pirating music. BERNAT ARMANGUEJune 23, 2005 11:31 AM EDT
MADRID, Spain - One of every three compact discs sold in the world last year was pirated, with sales totaling $4.6 billion, an industry group said Thursday.

In a record 31 countries, fake recordings now outsell legal ones, the International Federation of Phonographic Industries said in its annual report.

The bootleg industry is growing Latin America, India, the Middle East and eastern Europe, it said, although around the world some countries are cracking down on copyright theft by shutting down illegal recording facilities. A record number of them - with annual capacity for 380 million discs - were knocked out of action last year, the study said.

The London-based federation said it was releasing the report in Madrid because Spain is Europe's worst culprit when it comes to pirating music. In Spain, bootleggers selling pirated CDs and DVDs are common sights on the street.

The federation named Spain and nine other countries as priorities: Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Pakistan, Paraguay, Russia and Ukraine.

"The music industry fights piracy because if it did not, the music industry would quite simply not exist," IFPI chairman John Kennedy wrote in the report.

It called intellectual property "a jewel worth protecting," saying copyright industries account for 5 percent of GDP of the U.S. and European economies. Piracy jeopardizes jobs, economic growth and innovation and it saps tax revenue, the group said.

"It is no longer acceptable for governments and individuals to turn a blind eye or to regard piracy as merely a small irritation to society," he added.

The value of the world pirate market for music is equal to the legitimate markets of Britain, the Netherlands and Spain combined, the report said.

Globally, it said 1.2 billion pirated music discs were sold in 2004, 34 percent of all sales.

Musical piracy grew 2 percent in 2004, the smallest increase in five years. But the number of pirated discs is still double that sold in 2000, the report said.

In Latin America, the market for legally recorded music is two-fifths of what it was in 1997. In Paraguay, for instance, 99 percent of CDs sold are bootleg, the study said.

In Asia, excluding Japan, the legal market is half what it was in 1997. China is by far the world's largest pirate market, with an 85 percent bootleg rate, the IFPI added.

---
Old 23rd June 2005
  #2
I worked with a Chinese label / producer... the only way they can put out records is if the are also the acts live concert agent - and earn from live performances.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #3
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

ya Know its funny Thrill...............I see more individual folks selling copies of CDs and DVDs than big bootleg stores now-a-days. I few Months ago the cops broke up a store selling Bootleg stuff(they had a lot of stuff)..........but yet they pass by guys in cars, trucks, & vans that seem to be on ever other corner. Then on top that.......then even post signs everywhere like its a legal business

CD's 3 for $10, DVD's 4 for $15... call 123-4567

I think even the Bootleggers now has to compete with the new-school bootleggers with computers, cheaper cd-r spindles, and a T.O. Sharpie from Walmart.

Go figure
Old 23rd June 2005
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
I worked with a Chinese label / producer... the only way they can put out records is if the are also the acts live concert agent - and earn from live performances.
And the way to get distribution in Bolivia, is to give the bootleggers a original copy of your CD so they can sell it through the piracy network : )
Old 23rd June 2005
  #5
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All I've seen over here over the last .... hmmm say 5 years is that they doubled ... no trippled ... no forget that ... quadruppled at least the control on people like myself. They hassle you with more paperwork then ever before for even allowing you to duplicate a promotional CD and they ask you to pay ****loads of money. Up to a point that I'm seriously starting to feel like I have to make up by paying myself blue on rights on my own freaking stuff. Yet I see little or no effort whatsoever to actually try to do something about the downloading / illegal sales / duplication etc ....

It's realy starting to seriously dfegad me off. The local copyright organisation round here doesn't even 'protect' your work anymore. All they do these days is collect money from official radio stations airplay rights and re distribute that in a highly questionable way. But that aside ....

I've made a bizillion of phonecalls to the ifpi and likes and written encyclopedias full of emails to them. Sometimes pointing them to sites / servers where my own music or productions could be found free (illegal). I would ask them to keep informed about follow ups / steps they would take etc ... I mean I PAY THEM for crying out loud and all they ever could give me as an answer is 'we're working on it'.

Well ... IFPI , copyright organisations and the likes ... it's about time that you spend all the efforts you put into organising anual conferences and reports and board meetings etc etc into ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I don't care about your reports andd about your conferences and your lectures about what people should do and not do. I care about what you actually do about it and I'm seriously starting to think that isn't all that much. But who cares if Chris Lambrechts calls right ?

You can all take your anual reports and stuff 'em where the sun doesn't shine for all I care. Start proving to me that you actually try to do something about it Mr. President.

Solutions ? Nope don't have 'em .... but apparently neither do you .... so I wonder ... should I still pay you ?
Old 23rd June 2005
  #6
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That still doesnt metion the software. holy hell, my friend in russia tells me the stories. Homeless guys selling photoshop and protools on CDs for $2.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #7
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin4Life
That still doesnt metion the software. holy hell, my friend in russia tells me the stories. Homeless guys selling photoshop and protools on CDs for $2.
at least with pro tools you need hardware ... can you blame them ?
Old 23rd June 2005
  #8
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Zeppelin4Life's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
at least with pro tools you need hardware ... can you blame them ?


its a good point
Old 23rd June 2005
  #9
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heyman's Avatar
I have a friend that is an Airline Pilot for United... He travels to the far east once a week. Pretty impressive that you can buy a copy of Adobe Premiere(last time I checked it was expensive) for aound 5 bucks..
Old 23rd June 2005
  #10
Here for the gear
 

If any of those stats are even half right then how can there be any question that piracy and downloading are not affecting the business???

Or is the article not addressing downloading and thereby distinguishing it as something wholey different?

What if the "source" recording meant to be pirated through replication was obtained through download?? Not that that's very significant to the huge scope of things.

I just don't get how there can be so much disagreement as to whether or not this stuff is a negative on the business.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #11
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

On a similar topic ... funny annecdote. During aes Barcelona I attended a digidesign Icon presentation at a post facility after the show. Mr. Rich Nevens from digidesign, who did the presentaition showed us a DVD of Star Wars ... the latest. He had bought that dvd in , I think it was Bankok, on the very day that the movie was released in the theaters. On the not so legal market of course .....
Old 23rd June 2005
  #12
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This post probably will reveal how behind the curve I am but last night I stopped in on an outing and being shown was SW episode 3 in widescreen. Looked 80% of what the real DVD will look like and sounded at least as much.

I saw it opening weekend but at least four people there last nite had not. And now absolutely won't rent let alone buy the DVD. And these folks are tragically unhip to this kind of stuff.

Old 23rd June 2005
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
Mr. Rich Nevens from digidesign, who did the presentaition showed us a DVD of Star Wars ... the latest.
There ya go. So it's wide open. In the open daylight world of business and at home among the goobers. So why would everyone in between not think it was totally cool.

And how all this could not add up to costing us money is beyond me.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Well, living near Madrid im going there every two weeks or so. It IS incredible how in such a civilised country as Spain nothing is done to prevent immigrants from selling these cds, dvds, games etc. I mean, you can find them in all important streets in the city centre. If i want to buy the latest Shakira album, i can just go to the Plaza Mayor and buy it for 3 euro.
BUT: this is not only about piracy. It's about survival. The guys here who sell them don't even know what they are selling, not even if the cd contains data or not. They (immigrants) are abused and controlled by maffia. As long as the traffic of human beings continues and xenofobia is part of the culture here in Spain, very few things can be done, i'm afraid.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #15
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neve1073's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bram
Well, living near Madrid im going there every two weeks or so. It IS incredible how in such a civilised country as Spain nothing is done to prevent immigrants from selling these cds, dvds, games etc. I mean, you can find them in all important streets in the city centre. If i want to buy the latest Shakira album, i can just go to the Plaza Mayor and buy it for 3 euro.
BUT: this is not only about piracy. It's about survival. The guys here who sell them don't even know what they are selling, not even if the cd contains data or not. They (immigrants) are abused and controlled by maffia. As long as the traffic of human beings continues and xenofobia is part of the culture here in Spain, very few things can be done, i'm afraid.
Yeah good point. I was at the paza mayor a few years ago and had mixed feelings about seeing the spanish cops roust the bootleg sellers. They are trying to survive...and, more germane to this topic, they aren't really the problem. The problem is the uncontrolability of the digital medium.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #16
Guest
Guest
I have a hard time buying into industry statements like that one.
First off, we all twist **** for dour own benifit and I see this as more of the same.

Quote:
One of every three compact discs sold in the world last year was pirated, with sales totaling $4.6 billion
How do they come up with this number?
It is made up. I doubt the pirates are handing over their books.
If it is based on industry loss, then it is all a sham.

Quote:
In a record 31 countries, fake recordings now outsell legal ones, the International Federation of Phonographic Industries said in its annual report.
Somebody please school me on how in the "F" you can come up with these numbers???

Quote:
"The music industry fights piracy because if it did not, the music industry would quite simply not exist," IFPI chairman John Kennedy wrote in the report.
Yeah right!

Quote:
It called intellectual property "a jewel worth protecting," saying copyright industries account for 5 percent of GDP of the U.S. and European economies. Piracy jeopardizes jobs, economic growth and innovation and it saps tax revenue, the group said.
"a jewel worth protecting"....to the artist maybe. But, we are talking about money hear and that is the only "jewel" these clowns are trying to preserve. Here in the states they take this "jewel" right from the artist after a few years and it becomes public domain. Hence MJ owns many of the Beatles "jewels". Nice system. eh? That isn't protecting the artist at all. In fact, none of these anti-shring/piracy groups are doing squat for the artist. It is all about protecting the dollar for them.

Quote:
Globally, it said 1.2 billion pirated music discs were sold in 2004, 34 percent of all sales.
I am beginning to think these guys know more about pirating than the pirates.
They appears to have all records of sales globally.
Could this org be a cover for the largest piracy organization the world has ever seen?!?!?!?!?


More likely just some people loosing money and wanting others to do something about it. All under the quise of protecting the artist. What BS!
This industry needs to crash and crumble to the ground so, a healty new one can grow from the ashes.


I regret that the big label artist are losing money.
The dollar they make off each cd might be real important to them and they deserve it for writing or buying or for a least having their name on the cd cover.

BUT! I do not feel sorry for the 13 dollars off each cd that the industry pimp is losing. They should be. They are not doing what they should be.


D
Old 23rd June 2005
  #17
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dspatch, you can probably find out more about the International Federation of Phonographic Industries' study to evaluate its methodological rigor, but none of their statistical assertions surprises me based on what I see.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

In the UK, on market stools..you can buy Cubase SX 3, reason 3, photoshop and all that for £5 each.

The saddest thing is, kids round my area now have access to professional music software, due to the internet. That's why in the UK, we have a lame genre called 'grime'. It is a genre run by talentless teenagers who download music programs because its quick and easy to do it.

I just wonder what will happen to music. I dont think i'll ever make money out of music any more. The good thing is, you can create buzz via the internet...but you cant make any money...because of the internet. Ironic.

I hope I have die hard fans who will buy my ****.
Old 24th June 2005
  #19
Gear Nut
 

I don't doubt the numbers at all. But that simply doesn't mean that all those sales are would be retail sales.

The biggest part of the music industries' problems can be traced to a virtual monopoly (big distributers in collusion) with price fixing power. They simply have never had to deal with basic supply and demand price fluctuations that every other market has to deal with. If demand for $15 CDs goes down, the prices should go down. Especially when it's been shown that there is a great demand for cheaper CDs (bootlegs or free downloads).

We have a situation where the product is simply overpriced for the marketplace. There is alot of competition for entertainment dollars. Recording and production costs have come down dramatically over the last few years, but CD prices remain the same. Artist royalties remain the same. Your pay has diminished. The net profits are taken by the corporations (labels).

The demand for music is there. It always has been. People are interested in finding exciting new music. But really, who can afford to take a chance on a CD of an unknown artist for $15? When LPs were $5.98, I would go and buy 6 or 7 at a time, half of them unheard. Sometimes they were duds, sometimes they were gems. The prices made that adventure possible, and it made music fun. This is why kids like the downloading thing. They get to hear stuff that's not being promoted by the corporations (labels).

Sorry for the rant, but the whole downloading and bootlegging phenomena is nothing more than a HUGE demand that the labels are not responding to because they are simply too greedy to see the big picture.

The days of huge payoffs in the music industry are slipping into the past. In the future, the money will be more spread around, so everybody essentially will get less, but more people will get some.

At least that's the way it looks like to me...
Old 24th June 2005
  #20
Gear Head
 

things cannot be that bad. There is a new excellent format called AAC+, it delivers near CD quality at 48KbPS. They started to implement this codec into new mobile phones.

In short time, people will download music from their mobile phones, and bills will come from their telecoms. Closed circle, hard to crack. As one person said, there will always be geek hackers able to crack all protection, but for large majority those closed systems would be too much hassle to crack. It will be easier to buy than to go crack route.

Besides, music industry has more volume now than it had 8 years ago. New channels emerged, ringtones ($8bln/year), licensing, downloads etc. Not bad news at all. I mean, one day very soon you will subscribe to music download service (cca $10) without even thinking of it, like today we subscribe to TV, electric etc. Who would then bother to burn CD-s, to download lower quality copies (risking to be infected with virus) etc.

Always at paradigm shift times there are uncertainities and doubts. But those times are also very lucrative for fast and clever ones. Look at Mr. Collins download system OD2 (acquired by LoudEye). They charge $300,000.- bi-yearly only to allow you to sell their music opus.

Ancient Romans said 'give us bread and games', today is no different situation. Living in those complicated, hectic times, people will turn to music as relaxation, source of joy etc. even more than before. I really see no reason for worry.

Problem is, large majority of today's music is missing target. People are bombarded with marketing campaigns, forcing them to buy something they don't like. Simply, music is nod attractive enough today. Mixmasters, producers etc. shine, but artists and composers (hand by hand with lawyer-ruled labels) fail to give public what they want. Many artists flop, but Britney, BSB, Kylie etc. sold containers of CD's. Because people liked that music. Similarly, silly song 'Barbie Girl' by AQUA (Euro/US/UK/Danish cooperation) came out of nothing and sold 33 millions albums. Because people liked this silly little song. There will always be 'Barbie Girls' and people who will buy them gladly.

Future is good and optimistic.

regards

Dagg
Old 24th June 2005
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
I worked with a Chinese label / producer... the only way they can put out records is if the are also the acts live concert agent - and earn from live performances.
I think THIS is the natural way. ok there is some music that can't be "performed" in a meaningful way, and people like it anyway. still live is live, and all the recording biz is a secondary ride to bring the art to a bigger number of people.
problem again, when the oligopoly controls most of the venues.
live playing is physical, and should earn more income than virtual distribution. I call it natural because people would justify to spend the money rather for concerts and live parties, than for digital media, when they don't have enough. during bad times, virtual goods don't earn, that's the fact.
look at the countries these reports are talking about. revenue with virtual content is their very least problem, at all. they want to entertain because they are in trouble. still without new CDs (pirated or not) they can be as happy as ever, because they can sing and dance themselves. say, brazil and the philippines as the most famous ones with abundant genuine household musicianship.

others:
Quote:
That still doesnt metion the software. holy hell, my friend in russia tells me the stories. Homeless guys selling photoshop and protools on CDs for $2.
Quote:
It's about survival. ... They (immigrants) are abused and controlled by maffia.
yes, unemployment and social tension has to be solved, before the content industry can even think to get their figures right in such regions. everything else would lead to a corrupt police state, requiring 20% security forces, who would be missing in the production of real, physical goods. in india the problem is land and water, not piracy. what kind of demographic policy is this, having people kill each other because of bling-bling hip-hop DVD copies...

NGO: "people are deprived their rights on their own countries, and working merely for the national debt..."
Mr. president: "at first they should pay for their CDs and downloads, then we can see if we can help them to adjust to the WTO policies..."

how can we expect any progress, when legal music gets the money out of the country, but piracy gives it to the local mafias, who redistribute it among their favelas, anyway. you can have whole governments lip-syncing...


Quote:
The problem is the uncontrolability of the digital medium.
heh this is nothing new. little mozart listened to some secret cantate in the vatican, and at home he wrote down the whole complex music scores and partitures, having a recording device in his very own brain. soon after, the music could be experienced in many places of europe, and the sacral monopoly was broken. good thing? YES!!!

Quote:
you can create buzz via the internet...but you cant make any money...because of the internet. Ironic.
true and logical! you can't eat electrons...
the whole virtual content industry is just another economic bubble. what's everything in future geostrategics about? oil, electricity and water. the revenue of the content industries is used to subsidize the inflated war machine, that is built up because of the failure to deal with these global problems. this is obvious when we take a look at the complex ownership networks. everywhere general electric, motorola, beverage trusts, eventually dyncorp.

Quote:
We have a situation where the product is simply overpriced for the marketplace.
agree! fake luxury products have to break down, when the majority has problems with their household money. endless computer graphics, explosions, expensive "cribs" and bling bling, video shootings on the top of distant mountains or icebergs, and the enormous advertising war, who shall pay for this? where's the love, where's the music? and why do we need another spielberg or lucas movie that costs billions?

music is not something to only consume, but to take part in!
other countries with little copyright enforcement can bloom with sampling and experimenting on all kinds of "content", sound and vision. brazil and the philippines are known as very musical and artistic cultures. there must be something they do the right way...

Quote:
The value of the world pirate market for music is equal to the legitimate markets of Britain, the Netherlands and Spain combined, the report said.
this is sick in many ways, other than it was meant by the speaker.
at first I doubt that such a comparison is any meaningful for a non-physical business. but then, it means, that the money that runs into entertainment, or even the pirated amount the conflict is about, would me MANY times sufficient to solve the worst problems of mankind, in the third world, and in the favelas of the metropoles. much more capital is spent on entertainment, than would be sufficient to invest in sustainable local economies, to free the 3rd world from the spiral of debt and crime. where does it go?
Old 24th June 2005
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts

Well ... IFPI , copyright organisations and the likes ... it's about time that you spend all the efforts you put into organising anual conferences and reports and board meetings etc etc into ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Chris,

First of all, Regards from Jean-Pierre from Artsound ;-) ( He told me he knew you...)
Second, Copy protection on CDs is bull. I mean, it takes an experienced PC user a few minutes to bypass it and yiehaa, you're in copying business.

These days, the government has understood that there is a lot of money to be made by enforcing ridiculous speed limits, ridiculous high prices of you exceed them and then apply zero tolerance. And guess what? People drive slowly, against their will but there's no choice.

Well, I think the government should do the same here. Internet providers should worldwide be given authority and duty to check on illegal servers and stop providing routing from and to them. Heavy downloaders should be punished excessively by confiscating their PC and having them pay ridiculous high fines. I guarantee you that after a year, things would change.

A guy I know via via made catalogs and presented tham at work. His work mates could choose what songs they would like to be on 1 CD, like their private compilation and he sold it to them for 10 euro. They caught him, he got a warning. They caught him twice and confiscated his PC and he had to pay 2.500 euro fine but he earnt 10 times that much so he simply baught a new PC and restarted his business...


Regards
Lawrence
Old 24th June 2005
  #23
Guest
Guest
Quote:
Sorry for the rant, but the whole downloading and bootlegging phenomena is nothing more than a HUGE demand that the labels are not responding to because they are simply too greedy to see the big picture.
Thanks for summing up my rant.
This was what I meant to say.


D
Old 24th June 2005
  #24
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagg
Ancient Romans said 'give us bread and games
Not to oppose, but it weren´t the people, but the senators ( Caesar ) who required bread and games for to keep people from moving.
But when provided bread and games do work.

Movies and video games are undoubtedly being preferred over documentaries. Helps keeping people at supporting their exploiters.

Ruphus
Old 24th June 2005
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2000
The demand for music is there. It always has been. People are interested in finding exciting new music. But really, who can afford to take a chance on a CD of an unknown artist for $15? When LPs were $5.98, I would go and buy 6 or 7 at a time, half of them unheard. Sometimes they were duds, sometimes they were gems. The prices made that adventure possible, and it made music fun. This is why kids like the downloading thing. They get to hear stuff that's not being promoted by the corporations (labels).

Sorry for the rant, but the whole downloading and bootlegging phenomena is nothing more than a HUGE demand that the labels are not responding to because they are simply too greedy to see the big picture.
Well said indeed!

Ruphus
Old 24th June 2005
  #26
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Just to play devil's advocate here...
So if most bands don't make money off of records any way, and most musicians make money from playing live, who cares if the CD's are pirated? Ringtones seem to be a big money maker and hard to pirate (I think!?) so as far as electronic versions go you're safe there. Studio owners get paid for the recording so at least that aspect is covered somewhat. If musicians just looked at CD's as commercials for live shows it seems like that would be a little more realistic as far as what a CD will actually do for you. Comments?
Old 24th June 2005
  #27
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midigod's Avatar
 

Quote:
dpasch: Here in the states they take this "jewel" right from the artist after a few years and it becomes public domain. Hence MJ owns many of the Beatles "jewels".
You made some good points, but this one simply isn't true. Those rights don't go into the public domain after a "few" years. They go into PD after the writer has been dead for 70 years. If all the Beatles music was in PD, it would have zero market value, and the rights would not have been purchased by MJ.
Old 24th June 2005
  #28
Guest
Guest
School is in!

I will research this.
I was clearly talking out my ass.

It is a habit I am trying to break.




David
Old 24th June 2005
  #29
GSF
Gear Addict
Piracy Statistics

Maybe things need to get this extreme to encourage the bloated delivery system to reform itself.

The street price for commercial cds should be MUCH cheaper.
Old 24th June 2005
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy
...

Or is the article not addressing downloading and thereby distinguishing it as something wholey different?

...
Bingo.

Downloading - file trading - is not piracy.

The record companies are not truly global - decades ago, they chose to set up global regional distribution, and to support regional and national copyright and performance-rights compensation systems. With this, they are not in the political or economic position to do much about the huge global (and that includes the streets of New York and Los Angeles) problem of counterfeit CDs and DVDs. Instead, they are suing their own best customers in the US, refusing to address realistic pricing, and continuing to operate as if it is 1978.
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