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Summing levels!
Old 21st June 2005
  #1
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Slaytex's Avatar
 

Summing levels!

Hey slutz, I'm about to get a summing box and had a few questions. I've seen summing boxes that have level control and some that don't. Is there a big differrence in how you run your levels out of your DAW into your summing boxes? Should I set my levels ITB at unity and do my automation and set my levels externally if my summing box has level control? Or am I better off the opposite?
I assume that it is based on the type of summing box you have. I ask because I'm looking at Tonelux, API 8200's, & SPL Mixdream which doesn't have levels.
Thanks.
Old 21st June 2005
  #2
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Old 21st June 2005
  #3
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lucey's Avatar
The general assumption is that the summing box is for .. summing ...(Folcrom-passive, D2B-active, Mixdream-active, etc., etc.)

Automation in the DAW.

You may want to drive your summing box by turning up some channels for color (chandler, manley, etc.) but that's another step in the process.


An easy way to go is passive summing, no external gain adj., with a 2 ch pre to boost the summed levels. Like a Folcrom and a 2 ch. pre of your choice.
Old 21st June 2005
  #4
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There is a BIG difference, of course! With more knobs you have more options! You can drive a channel pretty hot and control that with your volumeknob ...for a cool kicksound for example. Some sumsums offers also pan pots like the chandler ...you can save one DA channel if you have to pan an instument say at 3 o'clock.


But ...... the coolest sumsumsum with most options is mine ....now.... sit down ....and listen........... ... it has volumecontrolls, panpots, cool eq's, aux sends, cool micpres and TWOOOO stereosumsumsums... heh heh heh










btw in the past they called that mixer (...just kidding)


andreas
Old 21st June 2005
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
The volume control on summing boxes is really just a master level for the box. So, if you need to go up or down 3-5dB as it's hitting the 2-track it's not a struggle. Rather then readjusting 40 tracks you can turn one knob. You'll still need a master section (like a Crane Song Avocet or Smackie Knob) to feed your monitors and handle 2-track routing and maybe cover talkback duties too.

Anywhoo...most people do set the levels in the DAW for 0dBfs or unity gain and do their panning/submixing and automation in there. The external summers are for bringing your 16 (or 24) stems together in the analog domain where there's more headroom and better tone.

And yeah...back in the day of the dinosaurs there were HUGE metal boxes that did this stuff...they were called mixing consoles.

Old 22nd June 2005
  #6
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

The beauty of the Folcrom is the great choice of overall tone that can be chosen with different preamps used as gain makeup...and automating everything in the DAW so it's totally recallable too.

Are you saying "Nuendo HO" as in "Nuendo Slut"?

War
Old 22nd June 2005
  #7
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

If your summing box has faders or volume knobs, I would think that keeping your levels in the DAW at 0db and mixing with those faders would sound better. Basic gain staging.

I would experiment both ways just to make sure. The problem with using the faders on a summing device is that you have no total recall.
Old 22nd June 2005
  #8
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Slaytex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead
The beauty of the Folcrom is the great choice of overall tone that can be chosen with different preamps used as gain makeup...and automating everything in the DAW so it's totally recallable too.

Are you saying "Nuendo HO" as in "Nuendo Slut"?

War
Yes Warren I'm a Nuendo slut! I will have to make a drive down to you some time and check out your place.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Until I can afford the console I want I'll be getting a summing box & so far the Fulcrom looks like the ticket.
Old 22nd June 2005
  #9
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Oh yeah whats a mixing console & where does one get one? fuuck
Smartasses!
Old 22nd June 2005
  #10
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audioez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
The problem with using the faders on a summing device is that you have no total recall.
and if you can't remeber the settings on such a device, you should consider another career.
Old 22nd June 2005
  #11
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher
The problem with using the faders on a summing device is that you have no total recall.
Since when is that a problem? I hate having to do total recalls so it's a blessing for me!
Old 22nd June 2005
  #12
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Yutaka's Avatar
 

Can't you run the tones after the mix to notate the fader levels?
Old 22nd June 2005
  #13
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FMNYC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaytex
Yes Warren I'm a Nuendo slut! I will have to make a drive down to you some time and check out your place.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Until I can afford the console I want I'll be getting a summing box & so far the Fulcrom looks like the ticket.
sounds like you already made up your mind but i'd be remiss (amiss? whatever) if i didn't put my humble 2 cents for my API 8200a line mixer.

great for summing, i love that thing.

cheers!

FM

FM... Cimmerian, he won't cry, so you must cry for him.
Old 22nd June 2005
  #14
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u b k's Avatar
 

the nicerizer sounds like god when pushed right to the edge of breaking up.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 22nd June 2005
  #15
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Slaytex's Avatar
 

Well I am on a tight budget and after thinking about the advantages of a passive summer such as being able to use different pre's for color is very cool as is being able to do a full recall of my mixes if need be. Oh yeah.... and price! This will also leave me with an open system where I can always add in a console later.
Thanks guys.
Old 23rd June 2005
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioez
and if you can't remeber the settings on such a device, you should consider another career.
Remember? When? Two years later?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Since when is that a problem? I hate having to do total recalls so it's a blessing for me!
If you mix with a faderless summing box, recall is as simple as opening a session.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yutaka
Can't you run the tones after the mix to notate the fader levels?
That's a great idea. Make sure you turn off 2 buss compression first.
Old 2nd September 2005
  #17
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Zooey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMNYC
sounds like you already made up your mind but i'd be remiss (amiss? whatever) if i didn't put my humble 2 cents for my API 8200a line mixer.

great for summing, i love that thing.
I think I'll be picking one up soon. The individual track faders really sell it for me.

I don't subscribe to the view that ITB summing is defective or inferior. I think that if analog summing has a beneficial effect at all (and I admit I have heard it on some mixes) it's because of what it adds, not because it's handling summing duties more faithfully. Therefore, a neutral, uncolored summing mixer has zero appeal to me, and I like the idea of driving some inputs harder than others.

The API also appeals to me because of the direct outputs. With a DB25 connector, the most straightforward connection is directly from interface to mixer. The direct outs will give a convenient point to split off tracks for reamping and external effects without repatching.
Old 2nd September 2005
  #18
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FMNYC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
I think I'll be picking one up soon. The individual track faders really sell it for me.

I don't subscribe to the view that ITB summing is defective or inferior. I think that if analog summing has a beneficial effect at all (and I admit I have heard it on some mixes) it's because of what it adds, not because it's handling summing duties more faithfully. Therefore, a neutral, uncolored summing mixer has zero appeal to me, and I like the idea of driving some inputs harder than others.

The API also appeals to me because of the direct outputs. With a DB25 connector, the most straightforward connection is directly from interface to mixer. The direct outs will give a convenient point to split off tracks for reamping and external effects without repatching.

as an FYI, i was having very low output coming out of the 2 main outs of the 8200a, then i decided to try and make it up using my mindprint dtc and man, i'm in gain heaven now.

that API piece is one kick ass box!

FM

FM found your diary underneath a tree and started reading about him.
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