Hey all!

I know for live performances many rapper perform with the shure SM57 or SM58, but for recording purposes have u heard of any mainstream rapper using a Shure SM58?


I'm asking because i know alot of artists such as 50 cent use the Sony 800 and some other rappers use the Newman U87 and U47 FET, but those are waay out of my budget.

I have tried cheap condendser mics like studio projects and audio technica....but they really do not have the "sound" i am looking for. They really sound smiley faced with no bite in the midrange. THe vocals really sound different than commercial hip hop........and yes i do compress the hell out of them.

Any advice?


Any ideas?

well...You can plug a 57, 58, into a neve preamp, and I mean neve, not some knock off. Not to say that the knock off isn't good, that's just my yapper.

My first "neve"(sounds like "my first sony") was two 3415 line amps that were converted into functional mic pre amps with stepped att., O/P fader, and 48v. Still to this day I use them on vocals and bass di when mixing music for broadcast, f*#&ing awesome!!!

Keep your 57, 58's and just upgrade your pre amp, when you hit it big, go to a studio and use the Sony800 or a u87, or whatever....

dfegad

I track one hiphop artist who actually favours the SM57. They work just fine given the right circumstance. I dont really care personally if other people do it - try it, and if it sounds good, it is good. If people just cared about how the next guy was doing it, we'd have one standard method, with one list of equipment to record each things. Long answer short - try it and see if you/the artist like(s) it.

I agree. A mic is an instrument just like any other, the sound you get out of it depends just as much on how you use it as on the mic quality itself. A good rap vocalist with excellent plosive controll can get a really fat sound out of a 57/58 just by close micing.

Gabriel Horn

if those mics are outta your price range look into these:
shure ksm32 or 44
audio technica 4050
Rode K2

what pres do you have at the moment?
you mention THe vocals really sound different than commercial hip hop
to what extreme? sound better? sound dull or lifeless? sound cleaner??? what...
right about now if you vocals sound different than commercial tracks that could be a good thing. a lot of commercial tracks trully don't sound that good. for example... listen to 50's "Just a lil bit" then listen to anything on Luda's album... big difference in sound. luda's vocals are clean and upfront(the sound i like more)
50, you can hear the distortion, the heavy compression.. the strong ear piercing mids...
it all comes down to your production style. don't listen to the BS that most ppl say about hiphop like:
don't use reverb, compress the sh*t outta the vocals ETC...

going in i don't compress strong at all. usually 2:1 or 4:1 compression peaking at 3-4db. once i start the mix i'll either use a sv-315 or rvox with hydratone. the 315 i'll mess with a lil. if the track doesn't need much i'll just set rvox anywhere around 8-12

personally i'm a hiphop and r&b producer/engineer... i perfer r&b ofcourse b/c you actually have to showcase your mixing skills, but r&b is clean.. i had a squad over here the other day.. i just finnished their mixtape. you know homie had the nerve to say.. the vocals are to clean, hiphop isn't pose to sound like that LOL
after about a 20minute talk he still didn't understand how or why i like my vocal sound to be clean. after getting a few copies to ppl, the thing ppl kept asking him was... "where did you record the vocals"
as of late i've had quite a few ppl asking me what i'm using, or where do i mix who's my engineer... they're kinda shocked when i tell um what all i have. i mix at the crib with nuendo 3(no pro fools over herem no sir) and i'm my engineer.
that atleast tells me ppl are liking the sound i'm putting out vs the avg heavy compressed sound


theres just something about the sound of a sm57/58 that i can't stand when it comes to vocals.
for yelling rock vocals its a little better, but the few times i've delt with rock the akg414 and or shure sm7 were always better choices for the lead vox.
o, for live most of MY ppl use beta58's or some audio technica jump offs...

The new ludacris song, "pimpin' all over the world" is super compressed. If you listen to it on mtv, it's just terrible. Also, did anyone else see the video for candyshop?? After a few weeks on mtv, the sound on the video sounded super grainy, like it had been run through a bit crusher. I personally have a lil' chuckle to myself when i hear an over-compressed mix like that, although i am guilty of doing that on a few occasions, but that's because i master in cubase w/ not so great plugins.

thats the video homie... the album doesn't sound like that.. its actually more compressed than some other songs through. "spur of the moment" and "number 1 spot" are the 2 best sounding tracks on ludas album imo.
thats like radio.. you can't compare the radio sound vs the cd.

as for 50.. if you think candy shop is grainy listen to lil bit.. it sounds really grainy imo.

Ya i kind of figured it was the video (Blame it on the brainwash channel..........I mean mtv). I just found it odd that 50's video got worse over time. You think mtv could do a little bit better of a job, though. For all the money they have, they should have some real good compressors. Hip-hop nowadays is super compressed the way it is. Why would mtv need to compress it that much???

beasties use the 414, i like that mic too, has more bass

I have had good results using Beta 58s in the control room with the talent actually singing along with the mains. Beta 58s are very forgiving feedback wise, and close examination of the track showed very little bleed. This also had the added bonus of bringing out the singers natural live style, rather then in a booth with headphones and a big condencer that on a stand rather then in their hand.

I don't do this all the time, but it can work.

do you ever try using your comp as a limiter??? Instead of having your comp in gain reduction all the time, be more judicous with the threshold setting, or input gain depending on what type of comp you're using...

Bono used an SM 58 into a neve on the latest U2 album...
Not rapping...But you don't need a neumann to get the vocal sound you want...

ive used u87... very nice on rap vox and its got a slight upper mids boost

Oh yeah, when it come to rap vocals, the Sm58 will do nicely... you'll need less EQ in the mix to achieve the sound on the "top". Try to keep the artist from working too close to it.

Why can't we all just get along??? My 100th post!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woo-hoo! Cause for celebration! Dance my minions! Dance!!!

was this post about SM58's? LOL Anyway, back to the topic, if the original poster doesn't have the budget for a high-end mic, how is he gonna have the budget for a Neve pre? Someone before suggested the Rode K2, this is a great moderately priced mic...$600 i believe. for a decent prte there is plenty in the $500 range like Presonus Eureka or Summit 2BA-221. You just have to know the sound your looking. As for in the studio i highly doubt pro studios are tracking thru sm58's. Just my opinion. peace.

yea the post was about sm58's but on this board someone always starts something when the topic has the word RAP in it.

i've seen so many post go to trash b/c ppl wanna prove they have the bigger di*k....
if you wanna state your opinion about rap music do it in the moan zone, don't take over someones post....

yea i mentioned the k2 b/c i use one everyday for a lot of my rap artist. a little rvox and a little hydratone and i have a very clean vocal sound...
personally i don't like the sound of the Eureka and i think the summit may not offer the sound he's after.. i don't think he wants the grainy 50cent sound...(though the summit isn't grainy i think with the k2 it wouldn't be a top choice only IMO)
with the k2 and hiphop/r&b music, clean and upfront is where i'd go. i just ordered a BAE 312A. i had a chance to use the bae with my k2 along with a few other mics and its so clean and upfront. i actually choice it over the john hardy m1... with it being $900 and the K2 being $500-600 you'd have a great sounding vocal channel. just get yourself a decent compressor and get to recording...

I dont know of or have heard of any major rap artist using the 57 or 58 on an album now-adays. I'm pretty sure its been doing in the past, but with the quality of inexpensive gear why bother? From my point of view, any dam mic with good vocals.......but the question is, will the vocal sound that was captured by that mic give you the sound that you are looking for? How well will it blend into the quality of the music you recorded? Do you want you final mix to have very smooth music and y vocals? or the other way around? It all on you and what you want ot need at the end of the day. I have gotten 98% sweet vocals with an AKG C4000b into a Focusrite VM Pro.

I say buy a mic and preamp that is smooth and clean............U can alway dirty it up after it is recorded when u start the mixdown. I know a few cats that used very expensive mics during recording and then through effects on the vocals to make them y.

A 58 can be used on rap vocals, though it would not be my first choice. IF it were all I had, I would make records. U gotta use what u got to get what u want

OK

Lets keep this thread - ON TOPIC!



Anyone straying off the thread topic risks a suspencion from this forum

Recently i recorded really "yelly" rap (think M.O.P.) into a Sennheisser e609 silver with the singer almost right up on it and it was awesome. Dynamics are def cool..i can't see why a Sm58 wouldn't be (even though i haven't used one in a non-live situation ever).

i wouldn't be inclined to use a 58. i use a c800 often, so that would be a good choice. but a number of other mics would work just fine.

i don't know what mics you have or can afford. or mic pre, converter, compressor, or even what kind of room acoustics you have in your tracking area. could be anything. and even with the best gear, you'll choose differently based on the voice of the person you are recording.

i just mean that old addage that there isn't a single correct answer is relavent here again. there are a lot of decent mics available for a grand or two, and having one really kick ass mic for vox is a stellar plan, especially in this genre. brauner, soundelux, gefell, neuman, etc. lots of good choices out there.

How in the world can u tell if something is "super compressed" coming thru the cable/directv or radio airwaves?

tv and radio super compress their signals as the norm.

go to a club or bar, listen to a cd in the car.

original question: C800g or U87. soundelux was nice but too fragile

I have seen (and used) the EV RE20 for rap vocals (as a main mic) even when there was a neumann u87 in the studio. Sounded bad ass. But u have to like the way it sounds on you. It is a standard in Radio. It is a thick sounding mic. I know I want one.

peace

[QUOTE=jlotto]How in the world can u tell if something is "super compressed" coming thru the cable/directv or radio airwaves?

tv and radio super compress their signals as the norm.


I know that, but most songs on mtv sound somewhat clear. It just seems that this and a few other rap videos on there are real boomy, and have that pumping quality to them. Boom air, I believe someone called it. I mean, they don't have to mangle them that bad! I'd rather if i had to turn up my tv, than listen to that, but then again, i hate mtv and don't watch it too often, but i catch the occasional video.

I just recorded a rapper today with an mxl 990. I was scared to buy it since it was so cheap, but i find it has quite a nice sound to it. Hey, for $60 or so, you can't go wrong. I ran it through an art mp (The lil' cheap $60 dollar one). Good results. I'll put up a sample if you'd like.

On Wyclef's Canival, and on Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill, we would constantly set up Vintage C-12's, Telefunken Elam 251's, U47, M49, you name it, only to have them sit in the control room Cranking the "Big's" holding a 57 witha big fat foam pop filter duct taped to it !

In more than one instance after hours of trying to "Comp" a vocal from 16 takes through various "hi-End" mics at various hi end studios, Lauryn would get frustrated and sing the whole song down in one take on a 57 that would blow the socks off of anything from the comp reel!

Most of these artists would spend most of the session "writing" the words in the control room with the mains cranked, so of course it only makes sense that singing them right there and then would be the most comfortable and "spontaneous" sounding.

Basically though: good vocalists sound good on whatever, bad vocalists sound bad on any mic !

I was just going to say they used a Beta 58 for the vocals on Clef's "Someone please call 911".....

good Vocals over a good mike any day. I kinda like the SE Gemini. (Sounds better than some more expensive mics on vocals for me.) But hell I'll use a 57, 58 or a Neuman TLM 103 even. Get a good take with a decent pre and keep it moving


Alot of the stuff you see engineers sweat over are flavor choices. But professional results can be had with most anything these days (Though I'd stay away from TL Audio and Behringer (not in the same category but I dont like either))

tl audio actually had some decent products
i really like the gemini too. i think i'ma order one or at least rent one to see how much i really like it....