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Dangerous Monitor
Old 29th March 2003
  #1
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Dangerous Monitor

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor

I compared the Dangerous Box and the SBM-2 and I liked the SBM-2 better for music mixing. The Dangerous Box while very neutral(great for mastering) was just not musical enough to me. The SBM-2 sounds like a fantastic Class A audiophile amp. Clean, huge, and warm at the same time.thumbsup
Thrill, Jules, et al::

Is the Dangerous Box the same unit as the Dangerous Monitor reviewed in this month's Tape Op (#34, p.78). I am very interested in this particular unit because I prefer to do all the mixing inside Pro Tools, (for total recallability among other reasons) but could use something nice between the 192 outputs and my Genelecs. The Dangerous Monitor inputs up to three stereo analog sources and four stereo digital sources. It has a Troisi D/A converter, so I have the option of running digitally out of the 192 and using the Troisi.

It's only two rack spaces, with a seperate 1 rack space power supply. It will sum L-R to mono, and flip polarity. There's main and aux outs for multiple monitor systems. It doesn't have insert points, but I can work around that.

It seems perfect for my needs (since I'm not actually mixing on it), and amazingly, the list is only $5k, which means the street price is probably a little over $4k.

One big question: anyone know if there is a headphone preamp build in? That's pretty important for me! (I like to check bass content through my Sennheiser 580's).

So what does everyone think? Is this the monitoring box of my dreams? (I guarantee you it is a HUGE step up from what I am monitoring through now, which is so low end I'm embarassed to even reveal it...) Or is there something else I should be looking at? (I would still keep my old system simultaneously set up, mostly for tracking, as it allows me to set up 6 different stereo cue mixes).
Old 29th March 2003
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
nbutter's Avatar
 

I think the Dangerous Box they are referring to is the Dangerous 2-Bus, a 16-channel analog summing box.

Here's the <a href="http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products.html">Dangerous site</a>.

<a href="http://www.colemanaudio.com">Coleman Audio </a> also makes clean monitor boxes.
Old 30th March 2003
  #3
Re: Dangerous Monitor

Quote:
Originally posted by littledog
Thrill, Jules, et al::

Is the Dangerous Box the same unit as the Dangerous Monitor reviewed in this month's Tape Op (#34, p.78). I am very interested in this particular unit because I prefer to do all the mixing inside Pro Tools, (for total recallability among other reasons) but could use something nice between the 192 outputs and my Genelecs. The Dangerous Monitor inputs up to three stereo analog sources and four stereo digital sources. It has a Troisi D/A converter, so I have the option of running digitally out of the 192 and using the Troisi.

It's only two rack spaces, with a seperate 1 rack space power supply. It will sum L-R to mono, and flip polarity. There's main and aux outs for multiple monitor systems. It doesn't have insert points, but I can work around that.

It seems perfect for my needs (since I'm not actually mixing on it), and amazingly, the list is only $5k, which means the street price is probably a little over $4k.

One big question: anyone know if there is a headphone preamp build in? That's pretty important for me! (I like to check bass content through my Sennheiser 580's).

So what does everyone think? Is this the monitoring box of my dreams? (I guarantee you it is a HUGE step up from what I am monitoring through now, which is so low end I'm embarassed to even reveal it...) Or is there something else I should be looking at? (I would still keep my old system simultaneously set up, mostly for tracking, as it allows me to set up 6 different stereo cue mixes).
No its not, its for monitoring only.

Ask Chap about it, he is the big "Dangerous" guy around here.

I think he has one. I heard one and I liked it. I would buy it for a mastering situation for sure. Troisi makes some nice DAC's in the audiophile world and I think they can change them and put whatever you want.

You should also look at this:

www.boutique audio.com

DMS-3 Discrete monitoring system

I have the SBM-2 and love it. I heard that the Inward monitoring system was "off the hook".
Old 30th March 2003
  #4
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Thanks for all the ideas, thrill & nb.

Seems like three resonable options:

*the Dangerous Monitor with Troisi converters (around $4000?)

*the Boutique Audio DMS-3 + the Benchmark DAC (around $3500?)

*the Coleman M3 DAW monitor + the Benchmark (under $2000?)


Well, it's clear which one fits most easily into my budget. I guess I've got a lot of homework to do to figure out if either of the first two options have enough extra bang to compensate for the extra bucks.

Anyone else want to weigh in?
Old 30th March 2003
  #5
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i thought the DM was more like $4995 list.... at least from the tapeop review price. dont know the street on it though. seems kind of limited for that price [no 5.1].
Old 31st March 2003
  #6
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littledog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i thought the DM was more like $4995 list.... at least from the tapeop review price. dont know the street on it though. seems kind of limited for that price [no 5.1].
according to this:

http://www.boutiqueaudio.com/DMS-1%20PAGE.htm

the list price is $3200, which was why I was assuming the street price would be $2700 or so... which even after adding the Benchmark DAC is still cheaper than the Dangerous Monitor, and seems to have similar features.
Old 31st March 2003
  #7
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

no, the DANGEROUS box.
Old 31st March 2003
  #8
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littledog's Avatar
 

oops - yes, that's the right price.

of course, it includes the troisi converters - which is exactly why I was asking if the Dangereous w/Troisi is worth the extra money over the Inward Connection + Benchmark.

I'm figuring the street price of the latter combination would be at least $700 cheaper.
Old 31st March 2003
  #9
Quote:
Originally posted by littledog
according to this:

http://www.boutiqueaudio.com/DMS-1%20PAGE.htm

the list price is $3200, which was why I was assuming the street price would be $2700 or so... which even after adding the Benchmark DAC is still cheaper than the Dangerous Monitor, and seems to have similar features.
Hey Littledog,

I think the list is the street price if i remember correctly.

Its a custom unit, so the price reflects it.

Only Boutique carries it by the way.

You can purchase it and return it if its not for you.

But from what I've heard no one has ever returned one.
Old 31st March 2003
  #10
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littledog's Avatar
 

well, assuming the Dangerous Monitor list is NOT the street price, that really narrows the price gap between the Dangerous+Troisi vs. the Inner Connection+Benchmark to maybe just a couple of hundred dollars.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #11
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chap's Avatar
 

love it

I LOVE the monitor!!
ask away
Peace,
chap
Old 2nd April 2003
  #12
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littledog's Avatar
 

I have this totally wacky, but highly money saving idea I am mulling over.

You see, the main reason I wanted the Dangerous Monitor or the Inner Connections+Benchmark was for monitoring from Pro Tools, with the outputs going to my Genelecs and NS-10m's.

But it really seems like the key component here is the converters, not the analog stuff. Since the Benchmark has a really nice volume control, I'm thinking I may be able to get away with ONLY the Benchmark, thus saving myself about $3200.

Here's how I figure -

AES outputs #1&2 from the HD192 go right into the Benchmark.

Analog outputs from the Benchmark go to my patchbay, where they will be normalled to my Genelecs, and can be patched into my NS-10m's.

Now, the only area not covered for mixing would be how to listen to reference/comparison CD's through the Benchmark. One way would be to use the SPDIF input on the Benchmark for the CD player. If I needed to hear an external analog source I could create a dummy stereo track in the Pro Tools session and record enable it with "Input Only Monitor" selected.

Headphone monitoring can be done right from the Benchmark . (I'm assuming the headphone pre will probably even be a step up from what I have now!)

So help me out here. Is there a flaw in my plan? Doesn't it seem like I can accomplish a noticeably improved monitoring chain with ONLY the purchase of a Benchmark CAC-1??? Sure, patching in the Genelecs vs. the NS-10m's by hand with patch cables isn't nearly as elegant as punching a button, and I can't mute and unmute reference CD's quite as easily, but is the ergonomics worth over $3000?

I can certainly resign myself to NOT being another $3200 in debt!!!
Old 2nd April 2003
  #13
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Hmmm.... I just thought of a potential pitfall.

If the analog outputs and headphone outputs are both controlled with the same volume pot, there's no easy way to mute the speakers while listening to headphones. I guess I'd have to do it at the patch bay by breaking the normalled connection with a couple of "dummy" patch cables.

Not very elegant... (sigh)

Sorry - just thinking out loud.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #14
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nbutter's Avatar
 

what the heck

I am not a great engineer by any stretch of the imagination but a couple of points/questions come to mind...I'm curious as much as anything:

- for the headphone feed, couldn't you use the converters in the 192 itself, taking a stereo feed out thru the patchbay into a separate headphone amp? the quality won't be quite the same as the Benchmark DAC's, but maybe that won't matter as much in the cans (what I mean is, maybe that won't matter $3200 worth of much).

i am in a somewhat similar circumstance -- using my 192 for conversion and running to genelecs through a noisy mackie board at the moment, which ain't helping my monitor mix.

My plan is to add a clean preamp between my patchbay and the genelecs just to attenuate volume. Maybe you could also add something like that after the DAC and before your active monitors. Then you could take the DAC signal out of the patchbay into your NS10 amp and headphone amp and use the preamp volume as a "muting" knob for your monitors.

this would be more expensive than my first suggestion but it sure wouldn't need to cost $3200!

hope this makes some sense...or helps lead to something that does
Old 2nd April 2003
  #15
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the preamp

i was looking at the coleman m3ph passive preamp, btw. it's $850.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #16
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littledog's Avatar
 

nbutter -

yes, we are thinking along the same lines. But, if the headphone preamp in the Benchmark is really high quality, it would seem a shame to waste it by not using it.

In another thread you also suggested the Coleman to me, but someone else (maybe thrillfactor?) who had the Coleman weighed in by saying that he was not very impressed with its sound, and was getting rid of his.

So that's when I started thinking of ways to bypass a monitor preamp completely. (If it ain't there, it can't degrade the sound!)

Maybe some kind of a simple line level mute switch for the Genelecs? I suppose I could always flip their AC power on and off, but that seems like a lot of wear and tear on the elctronics.

Back to brainstorming....
Old 2nd April 2003
  #17
Quote:
Originally posted by littledog
nbutter -

yes, we are thinking along the same lines. But, if the headphone preamp in the Benchmark is really high quality, it would seem a shame to waste it by not using it.

In another thread you also suggested the Coleman to me, but someone else (maybe thrillfactor?) who had the Coleman weighed in by saying that he was not very impressed with its sound, and was getting rid of his.

So that's when I started thinking of ways to bypass a monitor preamp completely. (If it ain't there, it can't degrade the sound!)

Maybe some kind of a simple line level mute switch for the Genelecs? I suppose I could always flip their AC power on and off, but that seems like a lot of wear and tear on the elctronics.

Back to brainstorming....

Hey,

A suggestion for something better than the Coleman boxes, is the Adcom GFP-750(designed by Nelson Pass the same Nelson Pass of Pass Labs) it is a class A preamplifier with balanced ins and a passive volume knob. You have both active and passive outputs.

And best of all it sounds terrific!!!

Now its been around for a while and you are going to have to hunt around for one(i think used its around $700) but none the less its a great preamp for the money.

I think Classe also makes a really nice preamp with balanced ins.

A couple of websites to check are:

www,audiogon.com

www.audiomart.net

Peace.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #18
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thrill -- hmm i actually had already gone to audiogon and started looking for passive preamps there among the audiophile crew... i actually have a classe pre at home but 1) it adds gain and 2) it sounds good right where it is! I'll see if i can find the adcom...thanks for the tip!!

little -- it sure seems like there should be a simple way to mute a stereo signal without lotsa patching or $$ -- you don't really need the volume attenuation so you might not even need a preamp, just a button!

how about a line switcher? switches from A outputs (genelecs) to B outputs (nothing) I don't know of one with xlr i/o's but it seems like it oughta exist ; )
Old 2nd April 2003
  #19
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Hey Thrill,

To what would you attribute the shortcomings of the Coleman box? Do you have the all-passive one? Seems like it should be relatively transparent, but I suppose it depends on the components and the attenuator.

I'd wondered about the models that feature a mono button -- they must use some IC for summing, but I got the impression that the that when the mono button is not in, it gets bypassed in favor of the pure, passive input-to-attenuator path.

Anyway, it seems like a nice box. I'm curious as to what you didn't like about it.

Nice tip on the Adcom box in the meantime
-dave
Old 2nd April 2003
  #20
Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G
Hey Thrill,

To what would you attribute the shortcomings of the Coleman box? Do you have the all-passive one? Seems like it should be relatively transparent, but I suppose it depends on the components and the attenuator.

I'd wondered about the models that feature a mono button -- they must use some IC for summing, but I got the impression that the that when the mono button is not in, it gets bypassed in favor of the pure, passive input-to-attenuator path.

Anyway, it seems like a nice box. I'm curious as to what you didn't like about it.

Nice tip on the Adcom box in the meantime
-dave
Dave,

I have the one that is both passive and active.

The mono switch is an active circuit(if its not plugged in the volume knob still works, but the mono switch doesn't).

The two things that i am not crazy about are:

1)The volume knob isn't as transparent as it can be

2)The build quality

The one I own was also modified by Coleman himself. The last pair of outputs is setup to drive a pair of sipham meters.
Old 29th January 2011
  #21
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RedWallStudio's Avatar
 

This thread has been dead for a little while, but I'm considering getting a Monitor ST, so I'm hoping for a little feedback. It seems there were a several issues expressed about the unit in previous posts, but it also appears that mods can be done. That said, has the basic design been changed yet? I agree that the 1/4" talkback microphone input is kinda lame and an XLR would be a no-brainer. Another thing I was wondering is if the ST can drive USB powered monitors. I have a pair of crappy little Insignia USB monitors (no battery or power cord.. driven only by USB) that I use as my "lowest common denominator" for testing out mixes... and I really hate having to bounce a mix down and import it into iTunes just to hear on these monitors.. would be great to A/B on the fly. Thanks for your input...
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