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Roland RE-201 Space Echo Replacement tape loops???
Old 30th March 2019 | Show parent
  #91
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FlyingMusician's Avatar
 

Pale Pyramid, I can't see anything on that site saying that echo tape is lubricated. It probably is, but the "we use mastering tape" is a cause for concern and you should inquire to be sure.

If you are using unlubricated mastering tape, it will sound fine for a while, but I think it will add more stress and wear on the entire system.
Old 30th March 2019 | Show parent
  #92
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Just wanted to share some initial findings that the new ATR loop tape is a higher bias than the BASF LGR-50. I'm getting some loops from Echofix and will be running a test to see how these three tapes compare.
Old 31st March 2019 | Show parent
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
Pale Pyramid, I can't see anything on that site saying that echo tape is lubricated. It probably is, but the "we use mastering tape" is a cause for concern and you should inquire to be sure.

If you are using unlubricated mastering tape, it will sound fine for a while, but I think it will add more stress and wear on the entire system.
I wasn’t replying to you. Was responding to the first post. Or rather anyone just looking for tape. I don’t use my space echo very often. But I have no complaints with this tape so far. I haven’t even read your posts.
Old 31st March 2019 | Show parent
  #94
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I just loaded the ATR tape and BASF LGR-50, adjusting bias levels for both and and did a frequency sweep starting with 1khz at 0db up to 15khz.

The ATR gives back +1-2 DB in the higher frequencies at slower and medium tape speeds when compared to the BASF LGR-50. At the fastest tape speed they were the same. So there is slightly more air and clarity with the ATR tape when using it at medium to low tape speeds. Which one sounds better is a personal choice because different frequency responses change the character of the echoes as they fade or oscillate, but both tapes seem to perform well. The difference is subtle but noticeable.
Old 31st March 2019
  #95
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Sounds Great's Avatar
Non-lubricated tape?
Old 31st March 2019 | Show parent
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Non-lubricated tape?
Both the ATR Echo Tape and BASF LGR-50 are lubricated. I don't know about the tape from Analog Man.
Old 17th April 2019
  #97
Gear Addict
 

Does anyone have an idea what tape Roland might have used to make the original loops?

I've been using Space Echos for 10 years and I have 3 well calibrated 501s that all sound identical if they have the same tape installed. Perfect calibration is critical for using two in stereo. None of the tapes have sounded quite the same (or as good) as the original RT1L tape - I think the BASF tape is closest, it's a bit brighter but same volume and self-oscillates at about the same as rt1l. The echofix tape is incredibly dark and loses lots of top end.

Might seem like a crazy question but how difficult would it be to find out which tape they used? How many possible lubricated tape of same thickness options might there have been out there? I want to hunt down some reels and find out what was used! Need potential candidates so we can find out
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adg21 View Post
Does anyone have an idea what tape Roland might have used to make the original loops?

I've been using Space Echos for 10 years and I have 3 well calibrated 501s that all sound identical if they have the same tape installed. Perfect calibration is critical for using two in stereo. None of the tapes have sounded quite the same (or as good) as the original RT1L tape - I think the BASF tape is closest, it's a bit brighter but same volume and self-oscillates at about the same as rt1l.

I have an original Roland RT1L and whatever tape it is, it's not the BASF LGR-50. It looks closest to the echofix tape and tape in 8 track tapes. All three have a similar color and thickness. BASF LGR-50 and ATR are thicker.

Also, keep in mind adjusting the bias is simple on these machines for any technician, both can be done in an hour. You may want to get new tapes and have this done anyway. Have the tech just put a 10khz tone through and adjust for max level (the manual says 1khz, this is not the way to adjust bias).

If you are good with tape splicing, 8 track tape is great. If not, echo fix is probably your best bet. I could be wrong but I think the thicker tapes don't work as well on the 501's as when the splicing tape travels past the head, it lifts it off momentarily causing a hiccup, that can completely ruin a nice oscillation effect.
Old 19th April 2019
  #99
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ATR is now offering tapes specifically for use in tape echo units. Price seems reasonable and far better than using just any old tape that will ruin your heads.
Old 28th September 2019
  #100
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Hi guys.

I have been using the GRS Pro X-tra tape loops for many years with great success. Never a problem and they last a really long time. But I just tried a couple of tape loops from Echo-Fix and they seem to be the worst I've come across, and I've tried lots of tape loops because we have 3 studios with 2 space echo machines in each one.

Has anyone else had the same problem with the Echo-Fix tape loops. First off, they seem to be very thin and the first one I tried snapped at the splice. I checked the tape tension with my tension gauge and it was to the Roland specs in the manual. The other thing is that there is a lot of oxide build up on the heads and capstan that happens after a few hours! I mean a lot! This is happening on all of our machines!

I've never had these problems with the GRS tape loops off Ebay. Just wondered what you guys have experienced.

Thanks,

Greg
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #101
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Just in case you didn't know it, ATR is now making tape specifically formulated for space echo's and echoplexes. I tried GRS years ago and was not very happy with their product. That was my experience and mileage may vary. Mine hung up quite frequently.
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #102
Here for the gear
No, I'm not talking about that early product. Their newer X-TRA tape loops...

Here's a link so you can see what I'm talking about

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382849194927

These are the ones in the new package. And yeah, I didn't like the earlier ones either, but the X-TRA loops are the best I've used.

Ever used the Echo-Fix loops? That's what I really want to know about.

Thanks,
Greg

Last edited by AnalogGreg; 1st October 2019 at 06:19 AM..
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichermit View Post
Just in case you didn't know it, ATR is now making tape specifically formulated for space echo's and echoplexes. I tried GRS years ago and was not very happy with their product. That was my experience and mileage may vary. Mine hung up quite frequently.
Oh, great! Have you tried the ATR tape in a Roland?
Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichermit View Post
I bought some of those loops from 201loop and for some reason the tape hangs up. I checked the heads and tape path and it was clean. The tape seems to be sticking across the heads. Does anyone have any theories? Is it the tape or something else. I checked most everything else and don't have a clue why this is happening. I suspect the tape. Sure wish there were some decent RT-1L tapes left somewhere it seems to be the only thing that works properly.
Japan!
Old 30th September 2019 | Show parent
  #105
Here for the gear
I did try the ATR tape when they first came out. Had to make my

My impression of the ATR tape was that the tape is very thin. Didn't have much of a life.

For the price, it didn't seem to be anything special. I mean, I am getting much better tone and better oscillations from the GRS X-TRA tape loops for a lot less money.

Cheers!
Greg
Old 1st October 2019 | Show parent
  #106
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coso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogGreg View Post
GRS
Greg, are you affiliated with GRS?

I only ask because a) you are pushing their product pretty hard in this thread and b) you have mentioned GRS in every single post you have made on Gearslutz.

Old 1st October 2019 | Show parent
  #107
Here for the gear
Nope, not at all.

I have purchased a lot of their equipment over the years. And they used to service my studio equipment before the owner died and the company split up into different groups or businesses. One of the reasons I was looking for other brands of loops to use.

But what I am still trying to get an answer about is the Echo-Fix tape loops and the problems I have been having with them. If these problems are common or maybe I got a bad batch or what?

I'd like to have a good reliable 2nd source for pre-made tape loops, but their loops seem to be somewhat touchy to use and break and they leave a lot of oxide behind after a few hours use.

Any one else have these same problems?

Thanks.

Cheers!
Greg
Old 2nd October 2019
  #108
Hi all.
Just my 2 cents here - indirectly...
Tony from Soundgas just recently said this in a live video:
The best tapes are Roland RT-1L (if you find new/unused ones, which have not been store in humidity).
Second are the EchoFix ones. Toni is just only using these for the RE machines he prepares and sells.

Here's the short video:

https://www.facebook.com/Soundgas.Lt...9893748272529/

F.
Old 5th October 2019
  #109
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Seems like others are having the same problems I am with the Echo-Fix tape loops. This is weird cause others say they work well.

Very confused.

Here.s some comments I came across. Cheers, Greg

construct09
Echofix in Australia

http://www.echofix.com/collections/tape-loops
rekem1000
I bought a batch of 10 Echofix loops late last year, every one of them stuck after a day or so of use.

chinard
best bet is just buy a tape splicing kit and a reel of tape.

loops last alot longer i find and you can customize the lengths for some fun looping. (super ****ing useful if you have an RE301 for sound on sound)

There are some discussions about what the best brand of tape is on one of the dub forums, cant find the link right now. Will post it when i find it.


Edit: HERE is the tape splicing guide i use.
These little tape splicing boxes are dirt cheap and pay for themselves after first use.
Another advantage to doing it this way is that if you ever do get your loop eaten or it breaks you can splice around the break without having to do a whole new loop. This is handy if your tape already has a nice amount of wear that you want to preserve the sound of.


abstraktor wrote:
If you want to roll your own, the tape type that should be used is BASF LGR -50 or the Zonal equivalent.


That sounds about right, what he said.
AntManBee
Thanks everyone. I've ordered some loops from mytapeecho.com but would be quite happy to make my own if I could find a source of BASF LGR-50 at a reasonable price (thanks, abstraktor, for letting me know which tape type is correct).

oxbowstudios.com
Oxbow Studios is a mostly analog studio specializing in vintage gear. We are very familiar with analog tape machines, be it a tape echo or 2” multi track. We are musicians and engineers who care about the craft of recording music. When it comes to tape echoes, the make or break difference is the choice of tape and the SPLICE! The splice in our experience, if done properly can eliminate dropouts all together. After years of trying different “endless loop/ lubricated” tape formulas, we (and many others) find Roland RE Series, & KORG SE units sound their absolute best with BASF LGR-50. Even better than the original Scotch formula ROLAND used in the RT1L cartridge. Oxbow Studios has a large inventory of NOS, LGR-50. We import directly from Germany. We test each loop before packaging to ensure quality.
Old 5th October 2019
  #110
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andow's Avatar
 

I also tried LGR50 and had the impression that it was too abrasive on the heads. I didn't use it long enough, so this is just a guess! It also saturates completely different than the orinigal tape loops.
I found that the tape from 8-track cassettes comes closest, although not all of them...
Old 7th October 2019 | Show parent
  #111
Here for the gear
Andow,

Thanks. I had the same low saturation issue with the LRG-50 tape loops, but then I re-adjusted the internal feedback trim pot and that did the trick!

The LGR-50 tape was the smoothest running tape in my machines and they left little oxide behind on the heads and tape guides. I had lots of oxide on the heads after running the ATR and the Echo-Fix tape loops.

I haven't had any excessive wear on the LGR-50 tape loops. Maybe your tape tension wasn't set right for the thicker tape? I always set the tension for each new tape that I try.

Thanks for the info! Appreciated!

Cheers!
Greg
Old 24th March 2020
  #112
Gear Head
Resurrecting this old thread, but am now in the same position as many before.

I need some new tape for my RE-501 and was about to order a kit from Echofix (to make up for the shipping), until they changed their delivery method to DHL only, adding a good 25 € to the any order, on which I will end up paying import taxes, which will make it all pretty expensive for 2 tapes...

Information seems contradictory on the web, and most Echo repair shops recommend to only go the Echofix route (such as this article on Soundgas: https://soundgas.com/resources/which...y-roland-echo/ ). As such, I'm asking myself wether there are any European based Echofix tape resellers?
Old 24th March 2020 | Show parent
  #113
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Sounds Great's Avatar
I found the previously mentioned GRS tapes here on Ebay:

PREMIUM TAPE LOOP 4 ROLAND SPACE ECHO, FOR RE101, RE150, RE201 RE301 RE501 SR555

I can't vouch for this brand as I have never used it, but it looks legit. And very reasonable price. And seller has 100% feedback rating.
Old 28th May 2020 | Show parent
  #114
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Hey gang,
I think this is my first slutty post. So here goes:


GRS mainly uses LGR-50 tape which sucks. It's broadcasting tape and their tension is not rated for these units. Greg definitely works for GRS, I'm actually pretty sure Greg was the name or the guy at GRS that I harrassed for weeks about how his loops were ****ing up my 201...

Shane from Echofix and Tony from Soundgas both declined to comment about GRS on the record, but GRS was happy to openly talk **** about Echofix and claimed that HE(GRS) was the original provider to Roland for these units. I spoke to several former Roland guys who debunked that ****.

I know a few people who've used LGR-50 and it destroyed they're motors, I know a few people who've used it and liked it, but they had to adjust the pinch-roller tension which I'm not about to **** with. But yeah AnalogGreg is definitely playing agent provocateur, I'll put money on it.
Old 6th June 2020
  #115
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Soundgas are claiming they have the original NOS formulation. Thoughts?

https://soundgas.com/product/tape-lo...e-chorus-echo/
Old 9th June 2020 | Show parent
  #116
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by loolaphone View Post
Soundgas are claiming they have the original NOS formulation. Thoughts?

https://soundgas.com/product/tape-lo...e-chorus-echo/
I got a pair of those for my RE-501. No complaints as of now here.
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