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What's Your Preference
Old 18th July 2002
  #1
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What's Your Preference

Assuming all things are equal (which the never are), do you prefer to mix with a console/mixer/summing gizmo, or do you prefer software automation? Or both?

Just curious (read: nosy) as the more tools I get, the more options are presented...and I hate option anxiety...

"Pick a game plan, and stick to it, son...win or lose" Tom Landry

Thanks y'all,

Ken
Old 18th July 2002
  #2
Kev
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Re: What's Your Preference

Quote:
Originally posted by Midlandmorgan

...and I hate option anxiety...
I'm in option anxiety

It's all good!

Luv the box and the automation and the recall.

Luv my desk and my outboad and I want more outboard.

but can't make choices ...
he who has the most toys does win
Old 19th July 2002
  #3
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Re: Re: What's Your Preference

Quote:
Originally posted by Kev
\
he who has the most toys does win
Kev, you're gonna die thinking that shit.
Old 19th July 2002
  #4
Gear Addict
 

I prefer doing the automation in the computer (PT) and then "trimming" the result on the board (DMX-R100) and (obviously) summing in the board too.
Old 19th July 2002
  #5
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Kev.

That was a terrible thing to say, and I'm sorry.
I'm an engineer, producer, and I guess I want to be a drunkard like Bev.
I'm sorry
R
Old 19th July 2002
  #6
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Drumsound's Avatar
Re: What's Your Preference

Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Midlandmorgan

"Pick a game plan, and stick to it, son...win or lose" Tom Landry

Thanks y'all,

Ken [/B]
That's what I've done. I've gone "old school" and use a tape machine and a console and outboard. It's how I like to work. When I use a computer, I feel like I'm playing games, not recording/mixing/producing.
Old 19th July 2002
  #7
Kev
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Re: Re: Re: What's Your Preference

Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Copus


Kev, you're gonna die thinking that shit.

That was a terrible thing to say, and I'm sorry.

That's cool ... cos ... Youre absolutely right !

I just can't help it. My only saving grace is I want to make all the toys.

For those that don't know, I'm so into DIY and making as much studio gear as I can ... to the point of obsesion and I've got it real bad.

I've got so much stuff lying around and I forget what I have loaned out !!

I've got no life... music , gear, stacks of email questions from people I just have to help, DIY , work ..... ahhhh !

and more DIY,

looms and patch panels for a mate ...
and that same mate still needs the rest of the Caps replaced in his 51 series Neve...... and more

Somebody make more hours in the day.

It's all good ! heh
Old 19th July 2002
  #8
Kev
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Boy did I get way OFF topic.
sorry

Mix in the Software with all the recall and automation is good stuff.

BUT feed the box with lots of outboard(DIY) ... mix and match with whatever takes your fancy at the time.

Printing the effects can be risky but the more you do the more you learn and the better you get. It can also mean your reliance on plugs is reduced and this can save DSP, money, sound (maybe - MikeT hates plugs and so do others).

Still experimenting with a touch of analog mix .... ask Jules about his mixing thing .... a Dangerous 2bus ??
Old 19th July 2002
  #9
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

straight up in the DP software. im loving it now.
Old 19th July 2002
  #10
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davemc's Avatar
 

I mix in PT although I buss out and back the stereo guitars through the fatso and the vocal buss through the 1969. Thinking of getting another stereo comp and do the same with the drums.
Old 19th July 2002
  #11
PT - 16 Prism Dream ADA outs into a Dangerous 2 Bus, out of that stereo analog, I can capture that at 96/24 if I care to... I may just do that on an accoustic album I have on soon.. I am trying to get the lables preffered mastering facilities phone number so I can see if they can handle the Masterlink format CD/24's.
Old 19th July 2002
  #12
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Soooo...if I seeing correctly, most folks combine the automation and other 'ghee-whiz' aspects of DAW for the lion's share of mixing, but still rely on analog bussing for tweaks, tonal toys, etc...

The information here could be a 'how-to' book....thanks!
Old 19th July 2002
  #13
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Midlandmorgan

I only use DP to record and edit tracks, just a way to get tracks on and off the disk (2408, lightpipe). I mix on the Sony DMX, with outboard gear. I've never used the automation in DP, but some have said it makes the audio sound not as good as when it's full up 24 bits, with no processing. I've used a couple of plugs here and there, problem solvers like Ionizer EQ, or something to raise low level tracks up from the dead. But mostly I'm happy front and tail-ending my studio through the DMX. I've used this system for 4 years now, and it works great. Before the DMX, it was a tricked-out O2R. I don't use PT, because I'm aware that there's actually something else in the universe besides it. Makes it kinda hard.
Old 19th July 2002
  #14
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I track on analog and mix on a console. The only thing the DAW gets used for is burning CD's and rarely multi-track editing.
Old 19th July 2002
  #15
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I wish I could get by with an analog tape machine. I record WAAAAy to many shitty bands and have to pro tools them to death.

I dont get it Jay I think we record a lot of the same genre type stuff (punk, hardcore, metal stuff)... and most of the bands RELY on pro tools for their performances. How do you do it with a tape machine. Do bands not complain about actually having to play thru the entire song?

I'm really getting sick of sitting in front of a computer screen the entire time. I would love to get a tape machine, but there would be no way anyone would be into it.
Old 19th July 2002
  #16
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e-cue's Avatar
 

I prefer both. I do most on my automation in protools, but a lot of my producer's like doing 'drops' (mutes) on the console... usually a 9K or a Capricorn. (my fav for mute automation for obvious reasons) If I'm in PT only, I'll use my hui.
Old 19th July 2002
  #17
Kev
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet red

I record WAAAAy to many shitty bands and have to pro tools them to death.
I would love to get a tape machine, but there would be no way anyone would be into it.
Yep that's me too.

Sometimes I have to pick up a Guitar and I'm not a guitarist!

I end up working harder than the band ... ???
Old 19th July 2002
  #18
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I love when I get to just worry about the sonics of the recording and not the performance of the band.... but that rarely happens...
Old 19th July 2002
  #19
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Sadly, I think that era is gone.
Old 20th July 2002
  #20
Han
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Gone? I still record to 2", punch in 20+ tracks in the middle of a drum break, between two tom strokes. An Otari can do that

A bass or guitar screw up can be repaired in half a minute, the automation of the (analog) board will take care of the rest

Peace, Han
Old 20th July 2002
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Yeah, bands play all the way through a song. Imagine that!!! While we never get "perfect" takes none of the bands I work with really look for that. I'm not afraid to punch drums especially if we cut to a click. I have the hardware Autotune in case it needs to be used for vocals or bass. Hell, I even punch whole bands on basic takes. 14 tracks or more. No fear!!!

I work on more then just hardcore and punk. Yes, I've worked with the Cro-Mags, Suicidal, & more but I've also done a 25-piece big band playing jazz standards. I'm a live music specialist.

Anyway, things could get more perfect if I was using a DAW but I don't like working like that. Also, I feel like it doesn't sound as good so I'm not interested at this point. I would like to check out a Radar system one day. I thought about buying one when I was looking for a 2" deck and the main reason I didn't get it was because there wasn't a lot of them out there at the time. I can see the advantages of digital but the disadvantages still carry more weight to me. I do have Adats here which almost never get used. Usually for multi-track input to the DAW and budget projects like the band that has $700 to record 4 songs in a day and a half.

The other thing is that from a business standpoint analog is working for me. Being as close as I am to NYC there are a ton of great rooms. Some of them have gone in the digital/big console direction. The other analog rooms like Water Music, Big Blue Meenie etc. all charge double my rates or more. The digital studios in my area are eating each other alive in rate and equipment wars. Those places come and go while I get busier all the time and manage to pay my rent every month.
Old 21st July 2002
  #22
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by planet red
I wish I could get by with an analog tape machine. I record WAAAAy to many shitty bands and have to pro tools them to death.

I dont get it Jay I think we record a lot of the same genre type stuff (punk, hardcore, metal stuff)... and most of the bands RELY on pro tools for their performances. How do you do it with a tape machine. Do bands not complain about actually having to play thru the entire song?

I'm really getting sick of sitting in front of a computer screen the entire time. I would love to get a tape machine, but there would be no way anyone would be into it.
If they don't have the option of "Manufactured Music" they have no other choice.tut
Old 21st July 2002
  #23
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Well bands demand to be able to edit everything together and not have to make it all the thru the song. Otherwise they'd find another place that let them do that.

Its ridiculous. Last week I worked with a band that hadnt practiced in over a month. They didnt think it was that important because "they had been busy, and figured we could fix it all in the computer". Makes no sense to me, but theres nothing I can do.
Old 21st July 2002
  #24
Han
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet red
Well bands demand to be able to edit everything together and not have to make it all the thru the song. Otherwise they'd find another place that let them do that.

Its ridiculous. Last week I worked with a band that hadnt practiced in over a month. They didnt think it was that important because "they had been busy, and figured we could fix it all in the computer". Makes no sense to me, but theres nothing I can do.
And I bet their agenda is full of gigs?rollz
Old 22nd July 2002
  #25
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Oh yeah they are. And moving a decent number of records for not having any real distribution. The last band I did just got off a 3 month american tour... took 3 weeks off, came in recorded an EP (without practicing since before tour)... which needed a ton of work and will be released soon and they'll go on another 4 month tour selling it.... and probably do it all again. These bands are liked for their energy and live show... not their playing. So its my job to make them sound like they can play. yuktyy
Old 22nd July 2002
  #26
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That sounds like it could be a snap...To capture the energy and feel of a live band, seems like one should capture the clams as well...adds to the show!

When they hit a bad note, tell them it sounds like they are venturing into acid/fusion jazz...

K
Old 22nd July 2002
  #27
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by planet red
Well bands demand to be able to edit everything together and not have to make it all the thru the song. Otherwise they'd find another place that let them do that.

Its ridiculous. Last week I worked with a band that hadnt practiced in over a month. They didnt think it was that important because "they had been busy, and figured we could fix it all in the computer". Makes no sense to me, but theres nothing I can do.
I've never had a band ask me to edit everything together for them. Looks to me like you need to start working with better bands. Funny, now that my rates have gone up from where they were two years ago the quality of material I'm recording has gone up too.
Old 22nd July 2002
  #28
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Yeah I totally dont have a fancy looking place and feel weird raising my rates anymore (they've gone up about 100% since I started). So I'm sort of stuck doing certain types of stuff.... even though I have been getting more and more good bands coming in, and for the first time turned a band down last week. So give me a couple years and I'll be in a real commercial space with way less of these bands.

Since I never formally apprenticed I look at this time as a learning expierence, only I'm making way more money then if i was interning, but still hang out in a big studio with real engineers. So I'm not really complaining, its just the point I'm at now in life.
Old 22nd July 2002
  #29
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Markus Stock's Avatar
 

Hi Planet Red,

man, I feel with you. Even though my place is a commercial studio and I record lots of album bands, the quality of the musicians is sometimes frustrating. I don't know how many hours I spend in the last couple of years soundreplacing drums, copy/pasting or cleaning up badly played rythm tracks. I think the problem is that most musicians have Cubase or something like that at home and when they compose they play a riff and copy it 10 times - when they come to the studio they wantme to do the same thing. I usually tell them I want good material on the harddisks before I even think about editing, but they still have "let's fix that later with the computer - that's why we are here" in their minds which is dfegad of course. That's the frustrating part having a daw - sometimes I wish I had a tape recorder like Jay and great musicians, but then you can't have it all. At least, every now and then really good musicians walk in - and that's why I do this - recording great music with great musicians....it sounds so easy....

Best,
Old 22nd July 2002
  #30
Kev
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When I first used SoundReplacer, I thought it was a God send but now I think it is a curse.

The workload has increased exponentially. A whole song down to quarter and eigth notes.
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