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Yamaha rm 2408/1608. whats the word? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 8th December 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogtodd View Post
I had a 1608, I thought it kinda looked cool.

It sounded lame

That's my recollection as well: Did a couple sessions on a 1608 back in the 80s, definitely looked cool with all the wood and the green knobs, but the sound was a bit underwhelming.
Old 28th December 2011
  #32
We picked up this board earlier this year and have been doing some good mobile work with it, but now we're trying to wire it up as our main board in the studio, and gosh, are we ever confused by the bus system and the associated gain staging!

We have a hybrid system with a mac and a 16-track Tascam running 1" tape. We've been delighted with the pres; they're warm and well-suited to the tape deck.

It looks like the 8 buses are set up to be used with a 16 track machine, but using the buses for tracking limits you to 8 simultaneous tracks. The alternative seems to be using the channel direct outputs, but the direct outs are all post-fader, meaning you can't really monitor from the main mix in the control room while tracking. (This is what we've been doing, and the results have been great, but in terms of workflow, I like a bit more fluidity between mixing and tracking--having to reset all the faders when going back and forth and trying to figure out a control room mix from the is less than ideal.)

It also seems like the buses are set up post-fader but with individual gain controls later at the send stage so you can hit the tape at the right level. That seems like a weird approach to gain staging--won't you lose signal quality if you attenuate it at the fader and then turn it up again at the bus output?

Those who have this board, how do you route signal for tracking?

Apologies if these questions seem a bit novice--I'm used to using newer gear which is more straightforward.
Old 12th January 2012
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmingtedious View Post
We picked up this board earlier this year and have been doing some good mobile work with it, but now we're trying to wire it up as our main board in the studio, and gosh, are we ever confused by the bus system and the associated gain staging!

We have a hybrid system with a mac and a 16-track Tascam running 1" tape. We've been delighted with the pres; they're warm and well-suited to the tape deck.

It looks like the 8 buses are set up to be used with a 16 track machine, but using the buses for tracking limits you to 8 simultaneous tracks. The alternative seems to be using the channel direct outputs, but the direct outs are all post-fader, meaning you can't really monitor from the main mix in the control room while tracking. (This is what we've been doing, and the results have been great, but in terms of workflow, I like a bit more fluidity between mixing and tracking--having to reset all the faders when going back and forth and trying to figure out a control room mix from the is less than ideal.)

It also seems like the buses are set up post-fader but with individual gain controls later at the send stage so you can hit the tape at the right level. That seems like a weird approach to gain staging--won't you lose signal quality if you attenuate it at the fader and then turn it up again at the bus output?

Those who have this board, how do you route signal for tracking?

Apologies if these questions seem a bit novice--I'm used to using newer gear which is more straightforward.
Yeah the board is not really suited to tracking more than 8 channels at a time. I use it with a 1/2" 8 track and it's great for my purposes. 8 in sent to the 8 subgroups, (which i might just bypass and use the direct outs for my next session to see what the difference is - i just wont have the vu's to use as a reference basically). 8 for playback, on the 2408, i dont even use the final 8 channels, i just have them for spares in case something happens. Though I have thought of re-working the pres and modding them to be api red dots, since it has 16v on the rails. But I'd have to add a separate board with output transformers, which is a whole other situation. And not relative to this question I'm answering! haha

The A/B on the subs is to send subgroups 1-8 to channels 9-16 on the 16 track. So you can directly send to whichever track you want on the tape machine, but only any 8 at a time still.

For those who didnt like the sound, I'd say swap those 4558's.. Try some of the alternatives, it makes a big difference!
Old 12th January 2012
  #34
Lives for gear
as someone said, groups to 1-8, next 8 you have to use direct outs. it's the only built-in way of doing things. of course you can use aux outs if you must for recording, that gives you a few more (6 on my rm-series board, 4 mono aux + 1 stereo) but obviously removes the aux capability.

but I remember reading several reviews where people discussed it and thankfully you can do what I just mentioned to get 16 outs via 8 groups and 8 direct outs. I would think you lose eq and one extra gain stage (which you likely would never use anyway) and have to control levels differently, but that's ok in the end.

the pres are really nice sounding in this board. it keeps making me stop using outboard other than the more exotic outboard preamps - the board's pres are just so nice. and the board is SO QUIET and has SO MUCH HEADROOM!

I can't recall, other than by doing something completely moronic, ever clipping any audio in the board or hearing any audible noise in anything I've used it for unless doing something insane to hear it (like maxing everything with the monitors up loud... not a good idea in any way shape or form LoL).

cheers
Old 13th January 2012
  #35
Thanks, this is very helpful. Now I just need to buy a whole ton of XLR-TRS patch cables to get those balanced ins and outs up and running on the tape deck and we'll be good to go! (Why on earth don't XLR snakes come in lengths shorter than 2m?)
Old 26th February 2012
  #36
Quick update on my board mods for anyone who wants to know:

Did more opamp swaps on the 8 channels I use as pres. Here's how it's laid out now. It's a much more versatile board now:

JRC 5532s in the whole thing except for:
Signetics 5532AN's in all of the Mid/High (IC02) EQ sections

Mic Pres give me the following results with this configuration:

TI 5532AN - FAST! Rhythm Electric Guitars (think Les Paul/Marshall JCM 800 with Tone Booster pedal classic) - AWESOME. They have an (dare i say it) API-ish quality to them. I won't go further than that cause it's a subjective ear thing. But the upper range breathes beautifully. Silky but crunchy and in your face guitars. Acoustics and clean guitars shine here. Most everything else suffers here though. Nothing else seems to cut through a mix quite right, though cymbals and snare sound nice, they don't cut.

Signetics 5532AN - This is great for lead guitars, any guitars with the need for low end "bite". Spotlight rhythm parts. I prefer vocals on the signetics. Toms are nice here. Cymbals and snare are smooth. Keyboards would probably be served well through this chip but i haven't tried them yet.

JRC 5532D (or DD) - Kick and Bass YES! Snare cuts a little better than the other 2. More brassy chip overall in the pres. Perhaps that's why some people think they feel more alive than the other 5532s'. That brassiness makes all the cymbals and the drumset overall cut nice too without being harsh or ugly. Low end shines on this one. I don't like guitars or vocals through this, they sound like they're being choked.
Old 26th February 2012
  #37
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just checking - looks like florian's circuit diags indicate the mic pre head amp IC is the same as the 'High' eq.. so you're swapping the high eq section too with these pre experiments? Are the changes you're describing with EQ out? do the high EQ's character change much when in?

and to power a single strip (mic in (no phantom) to direct out, via eq) i'll only need +/-16v, right? Looks like it might be a nice little project..
Old 26th February 2012
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
just checking - looks like florian's circuit diags indicate the mic pre head amp IC is the same as the 'High' eq.. so you're swapping the high eq section too with these pre experiments? Are the changes you're describing with EQ out? do the high EQ's character change much when in?

and to power a single strip (mic in (no phantom) to direct out, via eq) i'll only need +/-16v, right? Looks like it might be a nice little project..
I haven't tried that actually. I'm using the board for channels 1-8 as my pres, and channels 9-16 as playback. The playback channels are identical (JRC's in everything except for the signetics in the ic02 section). The pres have only been experimented with without EQ engaged. I can imagine it would make a difference though. You'll just get more in terms of the high end charachter difference pushing the EQ (smooth and silky on the TI/ gritty and dirty on the JRCS/ the Signetics will probably be somewhere in between). The idea is to get the character I want from different sources without engaging EQ, but certain things jump out on each of those different brands so I'm sure the high end of the EQ section will respond differently now when tracking if I use it.

For what it's worth, i tried both the TI and the Signetics in the ic02 mids section on the whole board before i settled on the Signetics. The TI's had more range, cleaner., narrow The signetics didn't sound like an EQ was being used, just made the frequencies "blend" a little better - wider, maybe added a little more meat to what frequency i was pushing. For rock and roll stuff like I do, it seemed more suitable. Both were equally "good" in the mids. YMMV.

As for pres, I now have 3 different flavors depending on what i want to accentuate. It's nice to have "clear winners" between all 3 for most of the sources i typically record. Rack and Floor toms and cymbals were the only thing that seemed closest equally good but different on all 3.

Yes the strips run on +/- 16v. There's a 20v out on the power supply that runs the lamps in the VU's. And 48 for phantom.

Yes it is a fun project. This board has a lot of potential. Speaking of which there's a ton of empty space inside this thing under hood of the the right side of the board. My next plan is to install a pair of UTC A-20 output transformers in there with an engage/disengage switch hooked to the master outs (post fader).
Old 26th February 2012
  #39
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nice idea with the transformers. I reckon it's crying out for one of these too... (just need to drop the 16v to <15v, and conjure up a 5v supply)..

I was wondering what were they thinking having all that space there? did they foresee the dominance of the mouse? I love the picture somewhere i saw, with an artfully posed cut glass tumbler of whisky and a pack of ciggies on that wood bit!

looks like i'll just get a strip myself, (or make one from scratch) a sweet rm1608 just sold for £300 on the bay here in the uk, i was sooooooo tempted, but personal conditions are not right at the moment to take in a big ol' desk!

I'm just considering a single mic pre and eq in a 1u rack (or maybe 2 in a 2u!!!), and maybe fit that adc in there too.
Old 28th February 2012
  #40
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eq pots

umm. sorry i'm being thick but can anyone tell me what's going on with the eq pots? the diag is hard to make out but it looks like W100k x2 for all three high/mid/low. i'm considering building this circuit..

but i'm really not sure how the diagram relates to the reality of two pots,(kinda looks like three at least, and how is that earth at the bottom connected exactly?)

and that W refers to an odd/exotic (but common for EQ) taper - hmmf not sure where i'll get those in the uk - searching the net only brings up single-gang 20k alphas, and single-gang 1M.

if i split out to single-gang pots, do they both have to be w-taper?

(diags on florian's site here)
Old 1st March 2012
  #41
Gear Nut
 

Jim Williams modded my master section and a channel for me a year or two ago. Sounds fantastic. I have the 1608 btw.
Old 1st March 2012
  #42
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nice, what did he do?
Old 26th July 2012
  #43
Gear interested
 

Hi this is my first post on gearslutz and this thread has been super helpful to me and my 1608. I am interested in replacing the op amps to the NE5532's but want to do a before and after test to actually hear the difference. So I am in need of some op amp sockets.

Could anyone recommend me a site where I can get op amp sockets!?

Thanks

Christian
Old 13th August 2012
  #44
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A quick note here_ I have a RM1608 for sale in the classifieds...So far Ive had several inquiries but the ship cost was almost as much as what I want for the board--any Local LA area people want it? Pick it up in Echo Park, 90026.
Cheers

RR
Old 6th September 2012
  #45
Gear interested
 

bumping this up.

i'm about to do some mods with my brother on an rm1608 we bought off of the bass player in my band. we're going to get started on my solo EP, but we want to get the most out of this board before we start, as its really all we've got.

is Mouser the best place to find the op amps? I can't think of anywhere else to get em. However, I'm seeing recommendations throughout this thread that Mouser claims is 'obsolete', such as the NE5532N. Any suggestions?
Old 29th September 2012
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickvivid View Post

Also, the vu meter lights are dead. I am considering led replacements. I got the schematics, but haven't looked to see what a suitable replacement would be yet. Any thoughts?
Hey Nick, I just set mine up and the VU lights are out too. Do you know where to open it up to replace the bulbs?
Attached Thumbnails
Yamaha rm 2408/1608. whats the word?-rm1608-setup.jpg  
Old 4th December 2012
  #47
Gear interested
 

I have one!

Hey everyone, I have a 2408 unit in my office at my church and we do not use it anymore. Would anyone be interested in it? If not i'm going to put it up on eBay or Craigslist. Any takers? Whats it worth?
Old 2nd January 2013
  #48
I also would love some step by step instructions on replacing the VU LEDs.

Just for fun, here and here are the results of the first 2 sessions we did with this board.
Old 9th March 2013
  #49
RE Replacing the lamps: Been so long since i did it, but it was really simple. 2 leads. Radioshack 276-0271 is the Green led, there's a few other colors in that series. They carry 'em at the stores. Just swap 'em outright. No other mods needed.

For op amps: ebay - I order 'em by the handful from China. easy to get and work good. I think overall the TI5532's are my favorite for most vocals and guitars. JRC5532s have a "brassy" sound, which makes kick and cymbals nice and dark. The Signetics 5532 have some uses, but they tend to be used the least in my board. Kinda midrangey, and not always in a pleasant way. The board sounds a little dead compared to others in terms of the pres. I'm adding some helios pres to my setup. I notice when i tried a helios preamp and the helios eq on recording, then the board EQ as additive EQ on playback - man, what a joyous combination for rock n roll. But yeah, i think the pres are the weakest link of this board. After the mods, playback is everything I ever wanted.

Nick
Old 5th July 2013
  #50
Gear Head
 

Hey guys I'm considering Getting a 2408. This is my first analog console so I have no clue about modding or anything so ill probably be coming back once I get it to get help with that. My main question is sending it to pro tools. I've seen you guys say it can only do 8 channels at once. But in the manual it says it has pgmA 1-8 and B 1-8 making it able to work with a 16 track tape machine. Also if I get an interface that has trs balanced in and outs how would I connect it to the board going balanced to unbalanced and vice versa. Also I see only 24 ins and outs for the patchbay. How is this suppose to be enough for 24 inserts and then the auxes? And the last thing is how would I be able to swith to another set of control monitors? Would I have to get an external monitor control? I'm very confused with this stuff. Yes I am a noob. But I'm learning and that's what matters
Old 13th April 2015
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
not redroom, but there is no headroom and too "spongey" sounding. Can esily be modified. One solution back in the 80's was to strap a BBE across the 2buss! Don't laugh, it's quite a unique sound. Wouldn't dare use that idea on just about any other console though....

Hello

I would like to know more about this pairing RM2408 and BBE (how to connect etc. ) who can explain this ?

my first post on gearslutz...

Thanks

Old 13th April 2015
  #52
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guessing: bbe sonic maximizer - basically an exciter/enhancer to put zing back in, where the desk had 'sponged' it out??
Old 23rd August 2015
  #53
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Yes but use BBE in tracking? or mixing? or some other application...tell me.
Old 24th August 2015
  #54
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not princeplanet but I'd guess he's talking about mixing down if the BBE is across the 2buss, also I guess the spongeyness and headroom issue is mainly shown at mix-time when there's loads of signals going into the mixbus...

edit.. also that quote was in answer to "what don't you like about the master section", which again i'd call more of a mixdown than tracking thing...
Old 25th August 2015
  #55
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FranzOo's Avatar
 

Many thanks for the clarification , I just finished accomplishing the table for this console , which soon will insert in the control room,just finish the acoustic calibration .

Attached Thumbnails
Yamaha rm 2408/1608. whats the word?-dsc_0010.jpg  
Old 26th August 2015
  #56
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that's very nicely done!
Old 26th August 2015
  #57
Gear Nut
 
MindMemories's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzOo View Post
Many thanks for the clarification , I just finished accomplishing the table for this console , which soon will insert in the control room,just finish the acoustic calibration .


Wow! Very cool!
Old 8th September 2016
  #58
hey guys!

do you know is there a significant difference of the RM804 model soundwise???
Old 19th April 2017
  #59
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Does anyone know where to get fader knobs for RM2408?
Old 21st April 2017
  #60
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FranzOo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiz Bang Kid View Post
Does anyone know where to get fader knobs for RM2408?
I also look for spare parts for this board, sometimes on ebay there are parts of the rm804 that can go well, the fader knobs are the same.
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