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Headphone Cue Systems...
Old 26th May 2005
  #1
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s0nguy's Avatar
 

Headphone Cue Systems...

All,

Im looking at adding a cue system to my studio. I run ProTools HD2 with a single 192 and a Control 24 that I would be using to feed the cue mixes. What hardware would you recommend? I've seen furman stuff in a lot of studios around town. IS this the way to go?

Thanks,

S0nguy
Old 26th May 2005
  #2
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Riad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nguy
All,

Im looking at adding a cue system to my studio. I run ProTools HD2 with a single 192 and a Control 24 that I would be using to feed the cue mixes. What hardware would you recommend? I've seen furman stuff in a lot of studios around town. IS this the way to go?

Thanks,

S0nguy
What's up S0nguy...

I have the Furman, works like a charm. I have the HDS-6 unit with 4 HR-6 remotes. I have the Furman Star module because all the cat-5 cables runs back to my control room, but you can also daisy chain them which is nice.

The only issue I have is I wish I had more controls than 4 + stereo mix. I have my slate out of the Control |24 to the first mix control so that 1 is always the talkback. That leaves 3 others for individual assignments, drums/bass, guitar and vocals.

If you don't have an issue with that limitation then it rocks.

Rob
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #3
w2w
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Try the Aviom system,its the best $$ I ever spent. 16 individual channels & recall.Uses super cheap Cat-5 cables,sounds great.Modules can be daisy chained together,I cant say enough good things. www.aviom.com
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #4
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Riad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by w2w
Try the Aviom system,its the best $$ I ever spent. 16 individual channels & recall.Uses super cheap Cat-5 cables,sounds great.Modules can be daisy chained together,I cant say enough good things. www.aviom.com
That's a very nice unit as well, it's more inline with the Furman HDS-16, both of those manufacturer's main and remotes are about $450 each.
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #5
Guest
Guest
And then there is the hearback system.

6 mono/1 stereo, a limiter and an aux input on each unit.

You can feed it ADAT (it has analog and DB-25 as well) to eliminate another layer of conversion and the latency incured. Made to be mounted on a mic stand and POWERFUL!!

I switched to this from the Furman. I did think the Furman was built better OR at least felt that way. I have had on issues with the Hearback though. Same as the Furmen.

Also, you can buy the whole kit (brain and 5 remotes) for less than 1 Axiom remote. So, if you have concerns with its construction, which you shouldn't, buy another rig and have full redundancy for less money than any of these non-redundant rigs.

This and my Central Station have brought back all I love about consoles. well, maybe not "all"...




Best of luck!!!

David
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #6
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runedigi's Avatar
 

I have not tried them, but you might check out the Rane HC 4 or HC 6.
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpasch
And then there is the hearback system.

I switched to this from the Furman. I did think the Furman was built better OR at least felt that way. I have had on issues with the Hearback though. Same as the Furmen.
What issues have you had with the Hearback?
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #8
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Jburn34's Avatar
 

I have the Furman HDS-6 and a bunch of the little satellite units. It's worked pretty well for me, especially for the money. The only problems it has are when the cat5 cable starts getting loose. Sometimes you have to jiggle the cord at the connection. Other than that its great.
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #9
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The main thing I don't like about the Furman HDS-6 system is there is no master volume control. You can't turn your phones volume up or down with 1 knob.

What's up with that?

The Furman HDS-16 system doesn't have that problem, they have master volume knobs...and beefier amps.

Fleaman
Old 26th May 2005
  #10
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brianroth's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nguy
All,

Im looking at adding a cue system to my studio. I run ProTools HD2 with a single 192 and a Control 24 that I would be using to feed the cue mixes. What hardware would you recommend? I've seen furman stuff in a lot of studios around town. IS this the way to go?

Thanks,

S0nguy
So, are you needing 1000 independent mixes in the studio? Good luck on that sicnce you'll spend hours making up all the indivdual mixes.

Once Upon A Year we would send the CR mix to cue, perhaps with a few tweaks, via a power amp driving the cue line..into passive level boxes.

But, I'm living in the past..each performer MUST have their own SSL desk at their side or else they CAN'T POSSIBLY perform....

Bri
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

We use the Aviom system here and love it. The first 16 outputs from Protools are normalled to it, and it shows up in our patchbay so we can patch anything we want. Everyone that uses it raves about it. Totally recommend...
www.aviom.com
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #12
Guest
Guest
Quote:
What issues have you had with the Hearback?

Dave,
That was a typo. It should have read "no issues" as I have had none.
The system has been flawless.



D
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #13
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Here it is... just an idea... and just in case you don't know it...

http://www.ozaudiopro.com/

I never tried one myself, but they seem to be good value for money.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #14
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth
So, are you needing 1000 independent mixes in the studio? Good luck on that sicnce you'll spend hours making up all the indivdual mixes.

Once Upon A Year we would send the CR mix to cue, perhaps with a few tweaks, via a power amp driving the cue line..into passive level boxes.

But, I'm living in the past..each performer MUST have their own SSL desk at their side or else they CAN'T POSSIBLY perform....

Bri
Naw, man, the whole point is to let the musician get a mix that he/she likes. I think the advent of these systems has been great for everyone. Vocalists want more vocal and/or reverb, the drummer wants more click -- let them just turn the knob and be done with it. no one else is subjected to having to listen to it. And if you need to share boxes, it's a lot less compromise than everyone sharing the same mix. And it keeps ME from having to deal with headphone blends, levels, and having to repeatedly address headphone issues.

Everyone gets to concentrate on what they need to. Everyone is happy...

Cheers,
John
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #15
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Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
I echo John's sentiments. We installed the big Furman system and the whining has stopped. I just build the sends into my templates and away we go. The Musos like having the power once they figure out how to use it. I can keep at least 8 people happy now...

My tech was somewhat less than amused at having to do all the db50s though...
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #16
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audioez's Avatar
 

I've used them all. . . for the money the Q MIX from ozaudio kicks ass...it has been used at home and in world class facilities, and it works, like a champ, not a chump :D

http://www.ezraudio.com
Old 27th May 2005
  #17
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wmhart's Avatar
 

Furman HDS-6 with 4 HR6 remotes

I have never posted a classified on gearslutz befor but I have sold a bunch of gear on ebay and have an 81 rating. I happen to be selling a HDS-6 unit with 4 HR-6 remotes. I was going to list the lot of them on Ebay in the next couple of days. I am finding that most of the time I an overdubbing in my home studio and never really have a live band in there. What I have is one HDS-6 unit, four HR-6 remotes, three sets of two- cat5 cables (about 25 ft length) and three microphone stand mounting brackets for the remotes. All equipment works perfectly and is in very good condition, no damaged knobs everything is in great condition. I would like to get $500.00 for the lot. Lemme know
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #18
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno
Everyone gets to concentrate on what they need to. Everyone is happy...
ditto that... probably one of the best things i ever bought for musicians when using cans. i do wish i had better than the HD6 system, but ya gotta work with what ya got.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjan
fwiw, i just tried buying one of their pieces but (at least some of) their stuff is backordered. seems Tapco (mackie) is buying the business. read into that what you will.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #20
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John, I was being a bit overly sarcastic. I understand the underlying reason for the more complex systems available today, but *somehow* we managed from the early 70's when I began in this biz to maybe the 90's with a simple system, and records were still made! That's with a big grin inline!

The typical workaround was to feed the CR mix to the simple cue system with the ability to add "more me" to the cue mix. One positive attribute was the utter simplicity (and reliability) of the system.

That said, Ted Curtis here in OKC chose the Furman HDS-16/HRM-16 combo for his high-end room. That is an incredibly flexible system, although they seldon used a fraction of the capabilities, at least while I've been there observing a session.

That Furman system allows up to four stereo stems to be accessed along with eight mono "directs" or stem mixes plus the ability for the musician to set FX sends.

More often than not, the tendency is to provide the CR mix as a stereo stem along with selected "directs" into the mono pots to provide "more me". I know Ted lurks here sometimes, so perhaps he can elaborate on the real-world setups he commonly uses.

My hunch would be a system that provides perhaps access to two stereo stems as the "baseline" along with 4 to 8 mono "more me" sources.

Bri
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpasch
Dave,
That was a typo. It should have read "no issues" as I have had none.
The system has been flawless.
I am interested in these Hear Backs also. Is dpash the only one reading this thread that is using them?

I really want to put the power into the hands of the talent and get it out of my hair. I have been so accommodating for so long creating unique cue mixes for everyone from the board...but I am done!
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #22
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T_R_S's Avatar
I got a custom splitter box with one in and six outs by 16 channels, going to six 16 channel mixers each guy can do his own mix works great then I can concentrate on other stuff. I like the idea a lot better that those cheap cue mix jobs as there is a lot more control everyone has stero mixes with there own efx processor on the mixer. Cost about $4000.00 but it was well worth it. All the musicaian love to have this ...Now if the headphone mix sucks it's not my fault.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #23
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bongo's Avatar
I use Mackie 1202's. I feed the control room mix to 11 and 12. Stereo drums to 5 and 6, stereo piano to 7 and 8 and whatever I need to the first four mono inputs. I run it off of the analog outputs of my second 192. The Mackies are connected to my mic panels with Elco connectors so I can move them around easily.
This way the musicians can start with my mix and add what they need. Fairly inexpensive to build.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #24
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With the Hear Back system, I am thinking:

1) Studio feed L
2) Studio feed R
3) Drums submix
4) Bass
5) guitars submix
6) Vocals
7) Talkback
8) Click Track

Anything else (keyboards, etc.) would have to be blended in there someplace when needed...
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #25
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i just purchased a furman hds6 system and four remotes to get things rolling here. i suspect that will be totally adequate for what i'm doing. i know they are built like tanks.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #26
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Guest
I guess I am the only one using hearback.

Well doublehelix,

My appraoch has been (with PTLE):

1) In PT you can assign each track to two channels. Fist thing I do is send all tracks to ADAT1-2. This gets the entire mix as I hear it at the cans. Now I can re-assign all the improtant stuff for that situation. And it varies!
In tracking you might want the kick and snare pulled out as well as bass and then do some gtr/vox buss mixes. OR if you are doing overdubs, Just pull out the track you are cutting and leave the mix as stated above. On ADAT1-2.

It is basically 8 busses for every person. 1-2 are stereo. The others are linkable at the remote IF the are fed a stereo track. Otherwise, they are all mono channels. And everybody gets their own set of busses to mix. When linked only one knob controls the pair. cool eh?

They have an aux in at the remote. Great for click at the drummer. I plug my metronome directly in. No need to waste the channel.

And L/R line outs. Plug these right into the PA! To be honest I never do this but, I think some might.

The onboard limiter is not bad at all. I don't think I will be mastering anytime soon through it but, it is a feature that your ears do appreciate. I was really suprised!
It even has an indicator when it is working.



With all this said, Please note. I am currently at more of a novice level.
My rig does not see the traffic it did when I wass open to the public.
So, I really have no idea how they will hold up in a heavy use situation.


Best of luck!


d
Old 28th May 2005
  #27
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steins's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nguy
All,

Im looking at adding a cue system to my studio. I run ProTools HD2 with a single 192 and a Control 24 that I would be using to feed the cue mixes. What hardware would you recommend? I've seen furman stuff in a lot of studios around town. IS this the way to go?

Thanks,

S0nguy
Furman HDS-6 with 6 remotes at our place. One of the best investments we ever did. The sound quality is acceptable (no-one has ever complained, but to my ears, it could be better), and it's easy to use. Even female vocalist gets it after a 20-second explanation on how it works.

I have the Aux out on the C24 patched to the stereo input on the HDS-6. 4 outs from a 192 I/O is patched to the four ins on the HDS-6. Makes it easy to send to CR mix when doing overdubs by just hitting the "Control room to aux"-button on the C24.

Stein Tore
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #28
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robmix's Avatar
I've got the Aviom here as well. Everyone loves it, best money every spent. My only complaint is the one headphone output on each remote. There's been a few occasions where a bunch of people around one mic could've lived with the same cue mix and I needed to drag all the remotes over. Otherwise it's been perfect. Customer service is great as well. One of the power supplys died and they sent one out ASAP free of charge.
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #29
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Riad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steins
Furman HDS-6 with 6 remotes at our place. One of the best investments we ever did. The sound quality is acceptable (no-one has ever complained, but to my ears, it could be better), and it's easy to use. Even female vocalist gets it after a 20-second explanation on how it works.

I have the Aux out on the C24 patched to the stereo input on the HDS-6. 4 outs from a 192 I/O is patched to the four ins on the HDS-6. Makes it easy to send to CR mix when doing overdubs by just hitting the "Control room to aux"-button on the C24.

Stein Tore
That's a good idea, I'm going to try that. So instead of using the slate out for the talkback you're using the aux out?
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #30
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steins's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riad
That's a good idea, I'm going to try that. So instead of using the slate out for the talkback you're using the aux out?
Yes.

Stein Tore
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