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Does HPF Effect The Phase in audio, &
Old 18th March 2003
  #1
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Does HPF Effect The Phase in audio, &

Does HPF Effect The Phase in audio, & by how much if it does?

Thanx guys
M2E
Old 19th March 2003
  #2
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can anybody help with this one? Does high pass filters hurt your audio and by how much if so?

Thanx Guys
M2E
Old 19th March 2003
  #3
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It may help to explain in what context you mean....
If you're talking about, say, placing HPF's on certain drum microphones whilst recording a kit, then sure it does, yes. If you mean individual elements of a mix, then it's a lot more subjective.
EXPAND MAN, EXPAND!!
Old 20th March 2003
  #4
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Fletcher's Avatar
An analog 'Hi-Pass Filter' will indeed affect the internal 'phase' of a signal... whether the event is of a positive or negative nature will be up to you... often 'snipping' off the way bottom will have fewer adverse effects than leaving it there...

The nature of all analog equalization devices is to alter the phase relationships within the context of the signal... more often than not, it's a good thing... though in some instances... it's not a good thing at which point a different type/style of equalizer may be a good call.

Best of luck with it.
Old 21st March 2003
  #5
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I'm using it in Pro Tools (Pro tools 1 band freq.) and it seems to work well but just wanted to know what type of damage am I doin to the audio. Oohh yeah- I'm in the middle of a mix Messiah.
I've used it on a few things like
1. Vocals- I take away around 150hz to 200hz
2. Guitar- I take away around 200hz to 250hz
3. Hihats, shakers,etc... around 300hz to 400hz

What do you guys think of that? And what do you guys do or use if you don't want to use HPF's?

For Pro Tools is there a very good HPF or do it really matter?

Thanx again guys
M2E
Old 21st March 2003
  #6
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Does it sound good?... I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but isn't that the question you should ask yourself when you apply EQ (or anything) to your audio? To what degree a HPF introduces phase shift becomes a moot point if it acheives the result you're after.
Old 21st March 2003
  #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by M2E
Oohh yeah- I'm in the middle of a mix Messiah.
I've used it on a few things like
1. Vocals- I take away around 150hz to 200hz
2. Guitar- I take away around 200hz to 250hz
3. Hihats, shakers,etc... around 300hz to 400hz

What do you guys think of that? And what do you guys do or use if you don't want to use HPF's?
well, as always, it's horses for courses and varies from track to track and mix to mix...but, the only HPF frequency point I agree with in general from your 3, is the hihats, shakers one.

Guitars have too much going on around 200-250 for me to feel comfortable with a HPF at 200Hz. If I'm going to filter guitars I usually look at around 150Hz max, usually 90-100Hz. If I find problems of too much activity in the lower mids I'd rather just bring down the low mids with a narrow to mid band or put a low shelf in at about 300Hz and bring it down a few dB's, and still have a HPF at the low bottom end.

I tend to have a similar approach with vocals. I would rather EQ specific areas out than totally do away from 200Hz down, or again, shelve the bottom end down and put a HPF in around 90-100Hz.

All of the above is "in general" and, as always, YMMV.

IMO, there is nothing worse than hearing a mix that has an obvious gaping wound between the low end from bass gtr and kit and the rest of the track...

hope this helps, M2E!
Old 21st March 2003
  #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim L
Does it sound good?... I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but isn't that the question you should ask yourself when you apply EQ (or anything) to your audio? To what degree a HPF introduces phase shift becomes a moot point if it acheives the result you're after.
Tim, I know exactly what you're saying, but sometimes there is a positive pyschological effect at play with things like this. If you hear opinions from other people that validate, define or fine tune your own feelings/instinct, it is usually easier to get yourself into the position of liking what you hear more quickly, and with increased confidence.
This is why I like to try and help out rather than just say 'trust your ears'. I've been fortunate enough to have good advice in the past, and I still get it and listen, so I don't mind spending time doing the same for others.
Old 21st March 2003
  #9
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Tim- Thanx for taking the time out to at least type something. Yes I listen to my ears. But sometimes your ears can fool you. Like when your tired but you really need to get that mix finished and know that a HPF could mess up of fix something in your mix.
I would love to hear what other stuff you guys use with HPFing and how much.

Messiah- I can't say enough how much this is helping me out. Thank you.

M2E
Old 21st March 2003
  #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
... This is why I like to try and help out rather than just say 'trust your ears'. I've been fortunate enough to have good advice in the past, and I still get it and listen, so I don't mind spending time doing the same for others.
That's great and it's what this place is all about. My post wasn't intended to sound like I didn't want to take the time to answer or give specific EQ suggestions, only that he might want to think about it in a different way... 'does it sound good' rather than 'is there phase shift' going on when I apply a pass filter. Sometimes pointing out the "least common denominator" can be pretty helpful also.
Old 21st March 2003
  #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by M2E
Tim- Thanx for taking the time out to at least type something.
Sorry you feel that way... sometimes the simplest answer is the answer...
Old 21st March 2003
  #12
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All good advice here...

However, since you're using ProTools, the issue of relative phase needs a little more attention due to DSP processor-latency. I apologize if you're already familiar with these issues, but it shoud be noted that inserting an EQ plugin will delay the signal by at least a few samples, which is more than enough to cause problems in multi-miked instruments. Delaying the other tracks to match using TimeAdjuster, or nudging the track you're processing back by the same number of samples is what you'll have to do to mitigate the problem.

We're all waiting semi-patiently for auto-delay-compensation to be integrated into PT.

-dave
Old 22nd March 2003
  #13
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Thanx Dave. That's what I was wondering also. Mixing in Pro Tools is a whole different monster than doing it from an analog board.

Sorry you feel that way... sometimes the simplest answer is the answer... Tim don't take that in a wrong since. I'm always thankful for any response. Again Thanx...

Hey Dave- To save on processing would you say that it is better to just push it back w/nudge?
Phase problems are always a dark secert problem in pro tools that nobody really knows of.

What are the ways that you and everybody else does to stay away from bad phaseing in "pro tools"?
Erik from Bomb Factory said to try one of his plugins I think. Am I right Erik? Also he said that he would put up something about phaseing on his site. But it's not up there yet.

Thanx Guys
M2E
Old 22nd March 2003
  #14
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I think I get decent results with the Waves RenEQ, but I'll admit I've never tried a lot of the other ones people talk about , like the Sony Oxford.
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