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Ensemble Preamps Don't Null...
Old 15th October 2008
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Ensemble Preamps Don't Null...

I did a test where I played a mono sound file out of output 7-8, ran a TS cable from output 8's jack into the Hi-Z input of channels 1-4 and recorded them each to their own track, then I solo'd two at a time with one having a phase-insert enabled gain plug and recorded their numbers.

Of course, all of the channels were set to line input +4, but I don't get nulling.
here are the results:
Soloed input + Soloed input (phase inverted)
1/1 = null
1/2 = -50
1/3 = -39
1/4 = -39

2/1 = -50
2/2 = null
2/3 = -42
2/4 = -42

3/1 = -39
3/2 = -42
3/3 = null
3/4 = -75

4/1 = -39
4/2 = -42
4/3 = -75
4/4 = zero

So, Broken down, the last two channels null with eachother better than the first two. 3/4 will get down to -75 in volume, but 1/2 will only go down to -50, then it gets generally worse from there when cross comparing them to eachother.

Is this normal to have 4 channels that have varying degrees of nullification when compared to eachother?
Old 15th October 2008
  #2
Lives for gear
 
thesteve's Avatar
Have you checked the wave forms to see if the peaks are the exact same level on each channel? I am not all that familiar with the unit, but does it have the soft limit function activated on some channels but not others, or dithering on the output of some channels but not others?
Old 15th October 2008
  #3
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

You did a round trip conversion on a firewire interface. Have you not thought about the latency involved in doing that? Two tracks that should be identical or even 95% identical (two conversions doesn't exactly retain the source to begin with) will not null as well if they are not lined up in the time domain.

By the way "Hi-Z" would mean the instrument inputs. I hope you did not make this test while using the instrument inputs of the Ensemble.
Old 15th October 2008
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteve View Post
Have you checked the wave forms to see if the peaks are the exact same level on each channel? I am not all that familiar with the unit, but does it have the soft limit function activated on some channels but not others, or dithering on the output of some channels but not others?
Hey, I checked and made sure that the softlimit was not activated on any of the channels, they were all at the same gain, the same settings, with the same everything, and no dither.
Old 15th October 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post
You did a round trip conversion on a firewire interface. Have you not thought about the latency involved in doing that? Two tracks that should be identical or even 95% identical (two conversions doesn't exactly retain the source to begin with) will not null as well if they are not lined up in the time domain.

By the way "Hi-Z" would mean the instrument inputs. I hope you did not make this test while using the instrument inputs of the Ensemble.
Yes, I knew there would be latency involved, but that shouldnt be an issue because I am comparing 4 recorded tracks under the same conditions, so I had an original sent to 4 channels and recorded 4 times, then I compared those 4 to each other, so the latency inherited by the copies should be equal across the board, no?

Also- yes I recorded them into the instrument level Hi-Z inputs, it was the quickes and easiest way to do it, what is the problem with this? (this is purely for testing purpose)
Old 15th October 2008
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Did you try adjusting the gain on one of the tracks you were nulling? Very small adjustments can make a big difference in how well they null; even .1dB differences are very noticeable.
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